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M2
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« Reply #135 on: July 15, 2003, 08:33:18 am » |
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Stephen, In Canada it's AHHH not AAAH! We follow the British English, not the American English. (just joking)  Calgary sis, The reasons for the assembly to disband and NOT re-group are many. But, fundamentally, if one views the assembly as being a false religion (nice word for cult) then there is no reason to re-group. In looking for a place of Christian fellowship someone wisely adviced me to look for power not pattern. And read the book 'The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse'. The assembly did not have the final word on 'how to meet'. Why is it the 'only' thing that people say is the reason that they like the assembly? Why isn't it because "we see Christ's love in our midst"? or... Love and God bless Marcia |
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sfortescue
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« Reply #136 on: July 15, 2003, 08:50:34 am » |
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John 9:34-35
They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
The following from a commentary by Calvin was quoted in a Sunday school class about a week ago:
If he (the healed blind man) had been kept in the synagogue, he would have run the danger of becoming gradually alienated from Christ and plunged into the same destruction as the ungodly. ... We have known the same thing in our own time. For when Luther, and others like him, were beginning to reprove the grosser abuses of the Pope, they had scarcely the slightest taste for pure Christianity. But after the Pope had fulminated against them and cast them out of the Roman synagogue by terrifying bulls, Christ stretched out his hand and made himself fully known to them. So there is nothing better for us than to be far away from the enemies of the Gospel so that he may come near to us.
The problem with former assembly people regrouping is that it would produce a tremendous resistance to change, so that the false teachings that they have been indoctrinated with for years would never have a chance to be cleared up.
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amycahill
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« Reply #137 on: July 15, 2003, 06:45:17 pm » |
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What are the best sellers? I only know of "Churches that Abuse." I would like to know what else to read! Thanks!
God bless,
Amy
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amycahill
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« Reply #138 on: July 15, 2003, 07:11:35 pm » |
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I don't think that being associated with the assembly is something that an LB needs to repent of. No church has perfect doctrine, so must all leaders step down? No leader is sinless, are they thus disqualifed? You see, you will never find a church that has perfect doctrine, and you will never find a leader who is without sin. You will never find a church without corruption. The Lord didn't make us to be perfect. So we cannot ask the LB's as a whole to repent for their assembly involvement because that would be asking them to repent for not being perfect. Matt, this paragraph in a nutshell sums up what you are fighting about. And yes, you are fighting. I intend to call a spade a spade. This shows me you have zero recognition of the essential issues of sinfulness and darkness of the leadership of the Assembly. Yes, all leaders have sin -- no one is perfect. But the leaders in the Assembly had grave defects, enumerated not only by Brent, but testimony after testimony of people who have been involved. Yes, not all of them were corrupt. Brent, I believe, WAS a leading brother himself. I could be wrong about this -- correct me if I'm wrong -- but I think he was. However, that virtue often lost them their jobs. That should indicate a problem right there. Ask yourself why you are blind to these problems right in front of your nose? |
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amycahill
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« Reply #139 on: July 15, 2003, 07:17:05 pm » |
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Kim,
I just want to reiterate that I thank you for you concern for my spiritual condition. I know that it's sincere. I know that you are showing me what God has shown you, and I appreciate that. I know that you were hurt, and I never want to minimize that or belittle it - in fact I pray for you. But you must trust that God speaks to me too. You are right that I know very little about other churches aside from the assembly. But I'm saved and I have been taught the importance of getting into the Word every morning to see what the Bible says for itself (something taught in the assembly!!!). I don't agree with everything about the assembly, again no church has perfect doctrine. But I do believe that God has put it on my heart to defend the vast majority of LB's from wrongful accusations. Thanks for your understanding.
Lord bless. I am confused. You acknowledge that God has spoken to Kim. But then you assert God said something different to you about the SAME SUBJECT. Do you really think God contradicts Himself? |
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amycahill
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« Reply #140 on: July 15, 2003, 07:48:41 pm » |
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In my defense of the LB's, I'm generally referring to Brent's favorite passage in 1 Timothy 5 about rebuking elders if 2 or 3 witnesses are present. That passage is clearly talking about rebuking elders of a Christian church. If the assembly wasn't a Christian church, then that passage can't be applied to the LB's because they aren't elders of a Christian church. You can't have it both ways: we were either in a cult, not a church, and thus the LB's are only as guilty as we are OR we were in a christian church and we have yet to hear 2 or 3 witnesses come forward for a specific offense against every leading brother in the entire assembly history. Until we do, we can't say that ALL leading brothers are responsible for hurting the flock. I have no idea why you think Brent is saying that ALL leading brothers are "responsible for hurting the flock." He has said over and over in this thread that he does NOT think so. I also noticed that you are referring to the tremendous display of "love" and "outreach" shown in the Assembly. You're right -- you can't find that degree of personal involvement pretty much anywhere else EXCEPT ANOTHER CULT. I know, I tried. I went to "regular" churches and not only did they not get that involved with me, they sometimes fell flat on their face. I judged them very harshly for that. I was comparing them with the standards set by the Assembly as far as the intense participation went. It took me a long time to realize the Assembly was unrealistic. I believe your leading brother was a sincere, kind and generous person. I will not knock him. But he was in a leadership role in a clearly abusive, destructive, rotten-to-the-core group and he has to answer for that. As someone said in another post, ALL leaders are accountable, not just Christian ones. |
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themissus
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« Reply #141 on: July 15, 2003, 07:51:54 pm » |
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John 9:34-35
They answered and said unto him, Thou wast altogether born in sins, and dost thou teach us? And they cast him out. Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
The following from a commentary by Calvin was quoted in a Sunday school class about a week ago:
If he (the healed blind man) had been kept in the synagogue, he would have run the danger of becoming gradually alienated from Christ and plunged into the same destruction as the ungodly. ... We have known the same thing in our own time. For when Luther, and others like him, were beginning to reprove the grosser abuses of the Pope, they had scarcely the slightest taste for pure Christianity. But after the Pope had fulminated against them and cast them out of the Roman synagogue by terrifying bulls, Christ stretched out his hand and made himself fully known to them. So there is nothing better for us than to be far away from the enemies of the Gospel so that he may come near to us.
The problem with former assembly people regrouping is that it would produce a tremendous resistance to change, so that the false teachings that they have been indoctrinated with for years would never have a chance to be cleared up.
Thanks Stephen. This I will pass on. |
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amycahill
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« Reply #142 on: July 15, 2003, 07:57:36 pm » |
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Matt, I have decided not to talk to you any longer. It is clear that you are resisting all efforts to show you another side of the story and that you are stubbornly persisting in your own opinion in spite of the evidence shown you by several witnesses.
May God be with you.
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themissus
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« Reply #143 on: July 15, 2003, 08:07:03 pm » |
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Stephen, In Canada it's AHHH not AAAH! We follow the British English, not the American English. (just joking) Calgary sis, The reasons for the assembly to disband and NOT re-group are many. But, fundamentally, if one views the assembly as being a false religion (nice word for cult) then there is no reason to re-group. In looking for a place of Christian fellowship someone wisely adviced me to look for power not pattern. And read the book 'The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse'. The assembly did not have the final word on 'how to meet'. Why is it the 'only' thing that people say is the reason that they like the assembly? Why isn't it because "we see Christ's love in our midst"? or... Love and God bless Marcia Hi Marcia Thanks for replying! I appreciate and see your last point! I'd rather see the love of Christ than a pattern, personally. What if we don't see the Assembly as a "false religion" or "cult?" I'm not saying it isn't true, but I don't see it right now. I'd just be falling in line if I heartily agreed it was a cult. Perhaps the word "cult" needs to be clarified?  Also, many people refer to GG's work as "rotten to the root", or something like that. Like he led a double life sinning on the side since before the assemblies began? I don't know what anyone is talking about. All we got locally is that last ex-comm. letter. Does one separate the man from the ministry? Anyhow, I appreciate your responses, as I'm still learning, and the veil is still being lifted! |
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amycahill
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« Reply #144 on: July 15, 2003, 08:38:37 pm » |
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I, too, am interested in the Southern California assemblies, or what's left of them, particularly Huntington Beach. Any news of them?
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amycahill
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« Reply #146 on: July 15, 2003, 09:04:44 pm » |
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Thank you very much!
God bless,
Amy
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M2
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« Reply #147 on: July 15, 2003, 09:06:35 pm » |
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What if we don't see the Assembly as a "false religion" or "cult?" I'm not saying it isn't true, but I don't see it right now. I'd just be falling in line if I heartily agreed it was a cult. Perhaps the word "cult" needs to be clarified? Calgary sis I borrowed a book from the library 'A Guide to Cults and New Religions' by Ronald Enroth & Others. I scanned in this from page 197: EVALUATING CULTS AND NEW RELIGIONS 1. Does a member's personality generally become stronger, happier, more confident as a result of contact with the group? 2. Do members of the group seek to deepen and strengthen their family commitments? 3. Does the group encourage independent thinking and the development of discernment skills? 4. Does the group allow for individual differences of belief and behavior, particularly in areas of less-than-central importance? 5. Does the group encourage high moral standards both among members and between members and nonmembers? 6. Does the group's leadership invite dialog, advice and evaluation from outside its own immediate circle? 7. Does the group allow for development in theological beliefs? 8. Are group members encouraged to ask the hard questions without threat of reprisal of any kind? 9. Do group members appreciate truth wherever it is found, even if it is outside their group? 10. Is the group honest in dealing with nonmembers, especially as it tries to win them to the group? 11. Does the group foster relationships and linkages with the larger society-connections that are more than self-serving? Marcia |
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themissus
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« Reply #148 on: July 15, 2003, 09:13:15 pm » |
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Thanks Marcia I will print and pass this along. |
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BeckyW
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« Reply #149 on: July 16, 2003, 03:54:30 am » |
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Greetings from the east coast- Just to clarify. The assembly raised up through the ministry of Geo. Geftakys in Annandale, VA, now consists of the four leading brothers & their families (all former workers), and two other families. One of those families is here on a temporary duty military assignment. All the rest are out the assembly, and have been for some time now. So it's not just "the Wiesers and a few others" who left the assembly here.  Phill & Becky |
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