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Author Topic: Existing Assemblies  (Read 210907 times)
mithrandir
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« Reply #180 on: July 28, 2003, 01:23:09 am »

One last (or maybe not) question I have is this: the Geftakys groups are explicitly mentioned in "Churches that Abuse" by Enroth.  Are there any other books about aberrant groups that mention the Geftakys groups by name?  This would be good to know in case we need to warn outsiders about any of the existing assemblies.

mithrandir
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M2
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« Reply #181 on: July 28, 2003, 07:41:28 pm »

One brother who remains in fellowship in an existing assembly X, continues to maintain contact with others who have left fellowship.  The leadership has 'advised' the brother to sever his contact with those who have left. AND those in another assembly Z have been 'advised' not to interfere with this matter as it is not Z's business; it is X's family matter.

Personally, I disagree with the leadership in both assemblies, but I am sometimes 'confused' about biblical principles. Maybe, someone(s) can enlighten me.

Since I am 'out' of the local assembly, this BB has become my new place of fellowship and seeking advice. Even, when I start going to a local church, I intend to maintain my friendships on this BB.

Thanks and Lord bless,
Marcia
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themissus
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« Reply #182 on: July 28, 2003, 08:44:02 pm »

One brother who remains in fellowship in an existing assembly X, continues to maintain contact with others who have left fellowship.  The leadership has 'advised' the brother to sever his contact with those who have left. AND those in another assembly Z have been 'advised' not to interfere with this matter as it is not Z's business; it is X's family matter.

Personally, I disagree with the leadership in both assemblies, but I am sometimes 'confused' about biblical principles. Maybe, someone(s) can enlighten me.

Hi Marcia!

I'm a little confused... (I admit I'm trying to figure out the x'es and z's)   Wink

But I think it's fine that the still-in- brother has contact with those who have left.  The pursuing "involvement" is typical Assembly over-zealousness/ twisted behaviour.

Do you realize that in a healthy, believing, grace-filled church, your "family in Christ" doesn't a) monitor/track your social life, b) be so presumptuous as to dictate who you can and cannot interact with, or c) tell other people what to do about it either!  It's just so twisted!  

"Biblical principal?" --- it's another example of the Assembly using scripture to divide and abuse.  The Lord Jesus spent time with tax collectors, zealots and the like!  The Pharisees definitely looked down upon it, but He did it anyway.  

The Assembly relied so heavily on the Law (legalism) because it didn't trust God enough to guide His own, it sent "Leading Brothers" to control our lives instead.  Good grief.  Counsel is one thing, assembly-type involvement in one's life is quite another.  It can eventually leave one without faith, because you're constantly being told what to do, instead of going forward in faith, with the Lord as your guide and companion.

The grace-full Christian would not survive in the Assembly.  They'd be deemed "Too liberal!".

ON another note, I just finished reading "What's So Amazing About Grace?" by Phillip Yancy.  What a superb book.  I highly recommend it, even if you only read  the chapter "Grace Avoidance" (it's all about legalism).

Anyhow...
The behaviour you described is what we need to flee from!  Nothing has changed in that Assembly.

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Tony
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« Reply #183 on: July 28, 2003, 11:36:17 pm »

Hello Marcia,

Based on a Christian world view, most of the stuff you mentioned would not necessarily be the business of others...BUT  (And this is one BIG BUT), we are talking about the Assembly System here.   Knowing what many of us know or have learned about the control and abuse of this system, this information reveals a business as usual, approach.   Sounds to me that these leaders have not dealt with the fact that they were under an abusive system or worse yet, they know and want it to continue.

If this person does not take the *advice* of the leadership...whaddya think...will they be shunned?  Entreated?...mocked?   Or most likely be the subject of some *private* conversations to discredit them.

you said:
"One brother who remains in fellowship in an existing assembly X, continues to maintain contact with others who have left fellowship.  The leadership has
'advised' the brother to sever his contact with those who have left."

What if a current member has family members who have left?   Seems to me that this group are well on their way to marketing that nasty old wine.

you said:
" AND those in another assembly Z have been 'advised' not to interfere with this matter
as it is not Z's business; it is X's family matter."

Again, under normal circumstances, I'd agree with this...but...(SEE BIG BUT ABOVE)

"Personally, I disagree with the leadership in both assemblies, but I am sometimes 'confused' about biblical principles. Maybe, someone(s) can enlighten"

Marcia, that was a little but.   You know more about this situation thanmost on the BBS could...you probably have a good grasp on what is right or wrong with this issue.

Hmmm, It is clear that X and Z are not able to C that all S not O K.   Since U  C that L S not O K, U may B N a position to light a candle so that may be someone will C.

I hope this helps...I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you are asking what to do about X and Z...my answer would be L F I Know!

Be Blessed  
P.S.  I abhore the phrase "out of fellowship!"
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Will Jones
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« Reply #184 on: July 29, 2003, 05:23:01 am »

Sister,

Here is a very relevant thread regarding "seeking advice/seeking counsel":  http://www.briantucker.net/bb/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=211
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M2
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« Reply #185 on: July 29, 2003, 06:27:57 pm »

Thanks Will. I read the article that you mentioned. I agree with it.  Since January, LBs are attempting to change the way they counsel.  However old habits are difficult to root out, and therefore there is still a strong tendency to control via pressure (in assembly X), or 'convincing' words (in assembly Z).

Apparently 6 weeks is long enough to develop new habit patterns such that those who take the 6 weeks challenge do not return to their former assembly environment (generally speaking of course) because they develop new habits of meeting.

However, when it comes to behaviorial habit patterns, 6 months has not been long enough to develop new habit patterns.

So on and so forth. et. etc. etc.

Marcia
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vernecarty
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« Reply #186 on: July 29, 2003, 08:51:05 pm »


What if a current member has family members who have left?   Seems to me that this group are well on their way to marketing that nasty old wine.


The record will clearly show that one of the primary weapons in the arsenal of George Geftakys and his enablers was the destruction of biological family ties. The numer of families sundered by this so-called ministry is rather startling. It was a deliberate strategy to pit husband against wife, brother against sister, children against parents, parents against children...all for the purpose of maintaining absolute control...many willingly complied and paid a fearful price...
Verne
« Last Edit: July 29, 2003, 08:53:13 pm by vernecarty » Logged
mithrandir
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« Reply #187 on: August 02, 2003, 07:30:21 am »

This is to inform you all that I have just e-mailed the following warning to the Rick Ross website and to the Geftakysassembly website.  I have asked the webmasters to prominently post this on their websites.  If you can think of any other websites where it shoud be posted, please speak up.

Here it is:

Advisory Concerning Geftakys Assemblies that Still Exist

 
Regarding cults and cultic groups, there is one group that has recently undergone a major shake-up, the details of which can be read about below.  The Assemblies of George Geftakys are a group of aberrant churches founded by Mr. Geftakys over the last thirty years.  George Geftakys advertised these groups as “simple New Testament gatherings where we seek simply to obey the Scriptures,” but they have proven to be merely part of a religious empire, which George built for his own personal agenda.  George exercised rigid control of these groups, both personally and by means of assistant leaders whom he appointed, and he used this control to abuse and take advantage of many members.  This is well documented in the books “Churches that Abuse” and “Recovering from Churches that Abuse,” by Ronald Enroth, and on cult-monitoring websites such as www.geftakysassembly.com and www.rickross.com, where there is much more information posted concerning George Geftakys and his assemblies.

Between November of 2002 and January of 2003, it was discovered that one of George’s sons had been regularly abusing his wife, and that George himself, in addition to having covered up his son’s abuse for years, had been involved in immoral relationships which he forced between himself and several women in his assemblies.  This behavior was discovered to have been ongoing for over two decades.  Because of these things, some of the leaders of the Geftakys groups actually expelled George from his own organization, and many of the groups disbanded.  However, some of the assemblies started by George still exist and are trying to continue as churches.  This advisory is written for the purpose of giving you, the reader, the information you need to respond intelligently if you or your son, daughter or other relative is invited to come to one of the church meetings or to join one of the assemblies which used to be affiliated with George Geftakys.

 The assemblies that still exist are in the following locations:

    * Fullerton, CA (Sunday, Tuesday night and Wednesday night meetings at the Fullerton Senior Citizen’s Center).  The Fullerton assembly has renounced George, but George’s son Timothy Geftakys still exerts considerable influence in this group.
    * Placentia, CA (Sunday meetings at the Placentia Round Table, and Wednesday night and Thursday night meetings at 619 Shady Lane in Placentia).  The leaders are Jack Hanson, Sterling Bennett, and Ron Womack, all long-time associates of George Geftakys.
    * West Los Angeles, CA.  This group continued to allow visits by George Geftakys until recently.  It is led by Bill Bradbury, Greg Brislawn, Mark Geiger and Selvin Sotelo, all long-time associates of George.  Mr. Bradbury is also very close to Timothy Geftakys.
    * Riverside, CA.  This group, although consisting of only one family and a few individuals, continues to allow George Geftakys to visit and preach, in spite of the irrefutable evidence of his criminal conduct.  This group is led by Mike Almanzor, a long-time associate of George’s.
    * Goleta, CA.  This group has renounced George and refuses to have anything to do with him.  The leaders are Wes Cohen, Mike Struven, and Randy Verhoeff.  Wes and Mike are long-time associates of George Geftakys.
    * San Francisco, CA.  The leader here is Scott Testa, and his second in command is Jim Karditzas.  Both men lived in George’s home and were personally trained by him.
    * Sacramento, CA.  The Sacramento group is led by Dan Mattson-Bose and Carlos DeLeon, who report to Scott Testa.
    * Hastings, NE.  The leader is Dave Zach, whose family has been closely tied to the Geftakys group for many years.
    * Seattle, WA.  This group, led by Mike Glesesner and Russ Pittman, has renounced George Geftakys, and is trying to reform somewhat.  They are tiny in number, essentially two families.
    * Pasadena, CA.  This group is led by Jim McCallister, who co-led the San Francisco group, along with Scott Testa.  Jim also lived in George’s home, and was personally trained by him.

As mentioned above, some of these groups – namely, in Fullerton, Goleta and Seattle – have completely renounced George, and are trying to overcome the effects that George’s influence has had on them. The situation is in flux at present, and more progress may occur with these groups. They are openly and honestly discussing the things that were wrong with their assemblies and are trying to fix them.  They are hoping that by this they might have a new beginning as churches.  A new beginning may or may not be possible; however, if you or someone you know is invited to attend their meetings, it would probably be safe to attend if you choose to do so – provided that you keep your eyes open.  Yet know this – a new beginning will take a tremendous investment of time, energy and above all, honesty on the part everyone involved.

It is a different story with the assemblies in San Francisco, Riverside, Sacramento, and Pasadena. Their leaders still allow George’s influence and teaching, and they discourage their members from asking questions or finding out the truth about these groups.  Their leaders still exercise rigid control over their members.  This includes the practice of setting up communal ‘training homes’, also called ‘brothers’ and sisters’ houses’ where inductees are ‘trained’ to serve the group.  If you or someone you know has been invited into one of these assemblies, you should know that these are dangerous groups where intense cultic training takes place.  It is extremely likely that someone joining one of these assemblies would experience some form of abuse.

The assemblies in Placentia and West Los Angeles deserve special mention.  Their leaders have publicly renounced George, but they are unwilling to publicly discuss the history of their assemblies, especially with those who have newly joined.  They are unwilling to publicly admit that they need to change anything about their groups.  The leaders still practice manipulation and excessive control of members’ lives.  The main decisions affecting these groups are still made in secret by their leaders.  Their lack of forthrightness is a very disturbing danger signal that perhaps the old abusive ways are still in place in these groups.  Placentia also has communal ‘training homes’ with college-age residents being trained to serve the group.  And both West Los Angeles and Placentia are actively reaching out to the community in an effort to recruit new members.  If you or someone you know is being invited into one of these assemblies, the leaders may try to keep you from learning the history of these groups – thus preventing you from making an informed decision.

In conclusion, the Geftakys assemblies have been clearly proven to be abusive, dysfunctional churches where many of the leaders have abused the members.  Since George Geftakys has been discredited, some of these groups are still trying to continue as churches.  In order for these groups to evolve into healthy churches, a lot of honesty is required.  As Jeff VanVonderen says in the book, “The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse,” “…the message to addicts is, ‘Get honest or die!’”  This applies to churches as well as individuals.  If a member of one of these groups invites you to a meeting or to join their assembly, you might ask him or his leader these questions:

   1. How much interaction is there between the assembly leaders and leaders of other churches?
   2. Would you be uncomfortable if I asked leaders of other churches what they think about the assembly?
   3. Do the leaders openly invite members to ask questions about the history of the assembly?
   4. Are finances handled openly, with full disclosure of spending and freely available records?

Here are some questions you might also ask yourself:

   1. Do the leaders give vague or pat answers to your questions?
   2. Do you get the feeling that if you ask certain questions regarding the history of the assembly the leaders will accuse you of being 'suspicious', or use some other means to make you feel like you just crossed an invisible line that you weren't supposed to cross?
   3. Do you sense that assembly history is a forbidden subject in the assembly (even when the leaders are not present)?

Finally, if you feel that it’s not safe to say “Yes” when someone invites you to one of these assemblies, you can always say “No!”  And saying “No” might save you a lot of grief in the long run.


This is the warning, as it will appear on the websites I mentioned if the webmasters choose to post it.  Now, as for why this warning is being broadcast, I am thankful that so much of the Geftakys machine has collapsed.  But I don't think the job is quite done as long as certain groups continue with business as usual while trying to recruit new, unsuspecting members.  Someone has to sound a warning to people at large regarding these groups.  I know this will mean collateral damage in the form of friendships lost between me and some who are still in some of these assemblies, but the time for half-measures has long passed.

Now that I've taken this step, I am going to focus on other things, at least in the short term - things like how to deal with my anger over what happened and making things right with anyone I offended.  Also, how to read the Bible and really hear what it's saying (without the Geftakys assembly spin!)

Clarence Thompson,
aka mithrandir
former doorkeeper in the Fullerton assembly
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matthew r. sciaini
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« Reply #188 on: August 02, 2003, 09:23:17 am »

Mithrandir:

What about Fresno and Arcata?  What should people do about those assemblies?

Matthew R. Sciaini
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KMC
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« Reply #189 on: August 04, 2003, 09:15:57 am »

Hi Matt,  good to see you at Dan Guskes wedding!

There is not much left of Arcata, just the Brady's and maybe another family or two and a few individuals. Most have left including Fortezzo's and Hillgers (former LB's). The Assembly in Arcata was one of the first to really try radical reform and dissassociation from George.  As time went on most began to seek the Lord and discovered you just can't put "new wine in old wine skins"

Ken C (former Seattle and now free to serve the Lord!)
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Mark C.
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« Reply #190 on: August 04, 2003, 04:13:53 pm »

Hi Clarence, aka Mithrandir! Smiley
  Do you remember me,  Mark Campbell from the Valley?  It has been great to read your posts'.  When did you leave the Assembly?  Did you leave recently, or did you leave before the recent GG revelations?  I would love to hear your story (if you feel like sharing it).  I left about 12 years ago.
                                   God Bless,  Mark C.
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mithrandir
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« Reply #191 on: August 06, 2003, 11:49:24 pm »

My advisory regarding existing assemblies is now on the Rick Ross website, in an edited form.  You can get to it by going to the main page at rickross.com and clicking on "An Update about the Geftakys Assemblies."  Hopefully, this will serve as a useful warning.

mithrandir
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Heide
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« Reply #192 on: August 07, 2003, 07:43:43 pm »

If you are wondering what to do and feel that your contribution is too small, listen:

When I first left the assembly there was no BB and no geftakys.com. I live in a small community. I started talking to people. At first it was the plumber, then the electrician and then the contractors. I started talking to people in the grocery stores and naming names. I figured this is a small town, people know other people. Especially among Christians. Take action! The worst you can say is Roberto Sanchez needs to repent and still has not made things right with me. Hold these men accountable!

You have more power than you think because you are in the truth. Don't get tired of telling people GG needs to repent. It is the truth.

Heide

The fruit? No more SLO assembly. Now it is Goleta's turn.
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mithrandir
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« Reply #193 on: August 08, 2003, 12:14:40 am »

Amen, Heide!  And to everyone else I say, write letters to local pastors.  If you see a "campus work" start in your community, warn the campus advisor.  Get the word out! - especially regarding those who are the most dishonest, such as Placentia ans West LA.  Give names of leaders and addresses of meetings.  But proceed with caution - only state those things which are provable, in the mouth of two or three witnesses.  You don't want to damage your own credibility.

mithrandir
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publicimail
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« Reply #194 on: August 08, 2003, 10:21:29 am »

Amen, Heide!  And to everyone else I say, write letters to local pastors.  If you see a "campus work" start in your community, warn the campus advisor.  Get the word out! - especially regarding those who are the most dishonest, such as Placentia ans West LA.  Give names of leaders and addresses of meetings.  But proceed with caution - only state those things which are provable, in the mouth of two or three witnesses.  You don't want to damage your own credibility.

mithrandir

Also -  include in your letter a print out of some of the information from the Rick Ross and Geftakysassembly web sites.  Also, send a copy to the Christian ministries at your local campus - Campus Crusade, InterVarsity, Fellowship of Christian Athletes.

Each campus has it's own guidelines and by laws by which "clubs" have to meet in order to function on campus.  If a "club" meets the requirements then they can meet.  One of the guidelines is to have a campus faculty/staff member act as an advisor.  If you can get a hold of this person, then you can inform them of the Geftakys ministry, and then they can decide whether or not to become an advisor or to stop being an advisor.  No advisor = no recognized campus "club", no room to meet in and no setting up of "booktables" to recruit.  (I'm not against getting the Gospel out - just the recruiting to be in the Geftakys ministry.)

Any questions or comments can be posted here or emailed to publicimail@netscape.net.

The fog has lifted and I see Sonshine! Yes, Sonshine, glorious Sonshine!  Christ, my Lord, is beautiful, warm and loving!

Shirley Collins
Huntington Beach 1983 - 2003
(The former school bus driver)
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