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Author Topic: Existing Assemblies  (Read 207439 times)
M2
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« Reply #210 on: August 27, 2003, 09:12:55 am »

Poor Bennetts!  When there is a leading brothers' meeting, the whole church is there, except for the Bennetts! That's gotta feel strange!

On the other hand, the Bennetts will be ready for glory four times faster than any of us.  Smiley They have four shepherds to 'minister' to them, and deal with their 'problems'. What a privilege! Wink

Marcia
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BeckyW
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« Reply #211 on: August 27, 2003, 08:29:09 pm »

I thought of this thread when I read the following quote in a (fiction) library book last night.  A pastor named Daniel is on leave from his church trying to rediscover his first love for Christ.  His son is Tyler.

' Then of course there was Tyler's accusation. " All religion cares about is being in charge." In one sense he had a point.  Daniel wasn't sure when it had happened, but somehow it had crept in, this greater concern for maintaining the machine than for serving the people.  And if that was true, then how did it make him any different from the Pharisees and Saducees?'


Sounds like fictional Daniel is getting honest and may be on the road to recovery.

BW
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Oscar
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« Reply #212 on: August 27, 2003, 09:08:59 pm »

A friend and I figured this out for an assembly saga trilogy:

The Great Deception
The Website Strikes Back
The Return of the Great Deceiver

MM

Thinking of the LOTR trilogy, I don't see much of a parallel between Sauron and GG.

GG is more like Saruman.  He imagined himself immensely powerful, but was only a puppet.

Remember in the chapter, "The Cleansing of the Shire", where Saruman is only a shadow of his former self, and Grima Wormtongue is his only follower.

That's what GG has become.  This is so sad.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux
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M2
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« Reply #213 on: August 27, 2003, 10:16:32 pm »

A friend and I figured this out for an assembly saga trilogy:

The Great Deception
The Website Strikes Back
The Return of the Great Deceiver

MM

Thinking of the LOTR trilogy, I don't see much of a parallel between Sauron and GG.

GG is more like Saruman.  He imagined himself immensely powerful, but was only a puppet.

Remember in the chapter, "The Cleansing of the Shire", where Saruman is only a shadow of his former self, and Grima Wormtongue is his only follower.

That's what GG has become.  This is so sad.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

More like Star Wars than LOTR; but those are neat observations.  What was GG's former self? Smiley

Lord bless,
Marcia (may the Force be with you) Smiley
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M2
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« Reply #214 on: September 01, 2003, 07:29:50 pm »

2CO 7:11 For behold what earnestness this very thing, this godly sorrow, has produced in you: what vindication of yourselves, what indignation, what fear, what longing, what zeal, what avenging of wrong! In everything you demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter.

Existing Assemblies, recognize the signs of Geftakysism still in your midst. In your 'claim' to repentace from Geftakysism you have not 'demonstrated yourselves to be innocent in the matter'.

1. LBs cannot make decisions without calling on each other to ensure that they 'all say the same thing'.
In Acts 10 we see a different picture. God told Peter to go to Cornelius' home. Peter obeyed. he did NOT consult with the rest of the brethren, because after all Cornelius might be a Roman spy and try and convince Peter to reveal some names of believers (or something like that).

2. LBs cannot change their minds once they have voiced a decision. Their thinking is that it may weaken their stand as LBs before the saints. So they give you the 'silent' treatment UNLESS it is to clarify a mis-understanding about themselves.
In Acts 11 we see a different picture. The brethren 'took issue' with Peter, but they listened to him and they changed their minds and glorified God even though God was not 'toeing the party line' (I hope that this is the correct expression). I tend to say things like 'wake up and smell the roses' and 'stop and smell the coffee'. Smiley

3. LBs have not said "I was wrong" when asked about their past involvement and promotion of Geftakysism. E.g. Tim G knew about David G's abuse before GG's excommunication. When he talked to his dad about it, he got the 'party line' ie. "It's a local issue, don't interfere." Possibly TG took his dad's advice and did not interfere. Has TG  ever said that he now realizes that he was wrong for not interfering and for not standing for what was right? This would be a true indication of repentance from Geftakysism. Maybe TG has, maybe TG hasn't. How many of the LBs/ex-LBs out there have actually boldly and publicly stated that they were wrong. Some have, but only a few. E.g. some LBs are still promoting the "It's a local issue, don't interfere" mentality.

4. The chief-LBs wife is controlling the assembly like BG did. This happens via a number of tactics. Prayer-preaching is one of them, where the LBW actually preaches with her head-covering on via her prayers. Another is the 'holy voice' method; when she wants to 'control' a situation she puts on a voice that is 'smoothing' and 'mesmerizing' (or something like that). Another is the 'acquiring of "wisdom"', but a lack of understanding (Pro 4:7 "The beginning of wisdom is: Acquire wisdom; And with all your acquiring, get understanding.) The LBW is in the 'know' and is the authority. Do you see shades of BG (eau-de-BG) in your midst? Beware!! And there's more, but I will quit here.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2003, 05:43:03 pm by MM » Logged
Oscar
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« Reply #215 on: September 01, 2003, 08:33:05 pm »


Marcia,

You're on a roll.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux
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Mark C.
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« Reply #216 on: September 02, 2003, 05:05:47 am »

Yes Marcia----- Please roll on! Smiley
   I agree with Tom!  Marcia, you have shared some vivid insights into the subtle power of Geftakys abuse.  I think the most obvious revelation from your last post is the dishonest nature of these defenders of their own place and power in exisiting Assemblies.
   The greatest fear of the Jewish leaders during Christ's time was that the Romans might come and take "their place" from them.  These leaders of the Jews did not care about the sheep of Israel, the truth of God, God himself, or God's "testimony" among them; all they cared about was their "place" of leadership in the exisiting religious structure of the day.
   There were some leaders whose consciences did bother them and this eventually led to their turning away from preservation of their place to a true relationship with Christ (Nicodemus would be one example of this).  I think we can find some former leaders of Geftakysism who also fit this category, but precious few from the recent fall out.  Each situation is different, but it would seem that those who stayed to the bitter end are more apt to hardness of heart then those who "saw the light" prior to the final days.
   I was talking with an ExAssemblyite the other day and he wondered at one brother who was trying to continue meeting Geftays lite.  His wonder was at the lack of perception that the would be renovator of Geftakysism was showing, as his own children hated the Assembly meetings and they, as he put it, should have been the "canaries in the mine" to warn him re. the lack of spiritual oxygen in the group.
   It is truly remarkable the utter darkness that some Valley leaders expressed in their leaving the group.  They have refused contact with former members and only associate with themselves.  To this day they have made no effort at an apology to, or concern for, the former members; on the contrary, they have blamed some of the former members for the group's demise and expressed harsh rejection of those seeking to win back their affections (I do not approve of such grovelling, but the point is even such action was was met with disdain by the former leaders! Angry)
   Not only did the former Jewish leaders who sought to protect their position of power lose their "place" they also lost their souls!  I can not judge the eternal state of these men, but if such a warning doesn't at least cause a stir in the conscience what does it say about them?!  If it is indeed Christ who is seeking to knock at the door of their meetings and they refuse to respond what can that mean?
   I appeal to any Leader of a Geftays founded group to not lock out a rational discussion of these issues and  entreat them to a willingness for honest conversation.  If indeed you desire to love and serve Christ don't grieve the Holy Spirit by putting your position in the group above Christ's position in your life and a desire to bless others whom you alledge to serve.
                              God Bless,   Mark C.
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BeckyW
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« Reply #217 on: September 02, 2003, 06:53:33 am »

Marcia,
Not only are you on a roll, you are seeing with extreme clarity.
Your point # 4 especially got me.  I've been across the table from those of the "smooth" voice, and found myself nodding right along with them.  Rather like the intended victims of the snake in The Jungle Book.
May God cause many more to 'wake up and smell the coffee', or the eau-de-whatever else is being wafted around their particular gathering.
Becky
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Tony
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« Reply #218 on: September 02, 2003, 07:19:58 am »

Marcia,

There is a nagging part of me that wishes this weren't true...




...But, then there is a clarity of thought that recognizes that you are seeing things as they are!

Listen to the Truth people!   And, listen to that rumble...a big crash is coming and you don't want to be part of it.   There are worse things to come.

 You cannot pat yourself on the back for sustaining afalse and destructive testimony, because you won't be able to take the hand of those who are trying to pull you out of the ashes!

God Bless you Marcia, I certainly hope that someone in Ottawa is listening.

Tony
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sfortescue
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« Reply #219 on: September 02, 2003, 10:26:41 am »

Yes Marcia----- Please roll on! Smiley

   It is truly remarkable the utter darkness that some Valley leaders expressed in their leaving the group.  They have refused contact with former members and only associate with themselves.  To this day they have made no effort at an apology to, or concern for, the former members; on the contrary, they have blamed some of the former members for the group's demise and expressed harsh rejection of those seeking to win back their affections (I do not approve of such grovelling, but the point is even such action was met with disdain by the former leaders! Angry)
The Valley assembly must have been an awfully bleak place.  I missed it since I left shortly before it started.  My impression is that a harsh and unforgiving attitude must have been an intrinsic part of the culture of the Valley assembly and was not limited to the leaders.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2003, 10:59:43 am by Stephen M. Fortescue » Logged
mithrandir
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« Reply #220 on: September 03, 2003, 02:01:36 am »

Things have been very hot in Fullerton and Placentia lately!  It is time I filled you all in on recent events.

Placentia Concert in the Park  I kept hearing rumors of the Placentia assembly planning to host a "Concert in the Dark (oops, I meant Park)" outreach in September.  One person I talked to suggested that I call someone who is still in fellowship in Placentia to find out the exact truth.  (BTW, there are only five families left in Placentia, although I hear that there are a lot of young people.)

So I called a family whose name I will not reveal here.  The wife answered the phone.  I said, "Say, is Placentia having a 'Concert in the Park' outreach?"  Her answer: "Why do you want to know?"  I said, "I was just curious."  Again, she said, "Why do you want to know?"  Eventually I got hold of her husband, who also asked why I wanted to know, and then proceeded to tell me that I had a reputation as a person who was trying to stop the Placentia assembly.  I asked him three questions:

Do you tell new people and visitors the history of your assembly, and of your involvement with George Geftakys?  His answer: "Inappropriate question!"

Do you all have meetings where you openly discuss what happens with the finances you collect?  His answer: "Inappropriate question!"

Does each member of your assembly have a say in deciding the direction of the assembly?  Again, his answer: "Inappropriate question!" Roll Eyes

I told him that he had just answered all my questions and hung up.  He then called Ron Womack, who is one of the leaders in Placentia.  Ron called me and asked if we could get together sometime.  We decided tentatively to get together on Labor Day.  But I wanted Tom Maddux to join us, and Tom was willing to come along.  When I told Ron that Tom would be there, Ron said, "Oh, no, I just want to talk to you.  I don't see what Tom has to do with Placentia...and I don't want to get ganged-up-on."  (The actual expression he used was more graphic.)  I told him he could bring Jack Hanson or Sterling Bennett if he wanted to (they are the other leaders in Placentia), but he declined.  I proceeded to tell him what my concerns were with Placentia trying to recruit new people into a dysfunctional and abusive gathering, and I asked him the same three questions I mentioned earlier.  His response: "Who are you to tell us how to gather?  Get a life!"  In summary, he refused to meet with both me and Tom Maddux.

My response to all this  When Brent's website first became known to all of us, I was quite glad that we were finally getting to see the truth about the Geftakys assembly system.  I was glad that people in high places were finally being exposed as the corrupt individuals they were.  But I kept wondering when Placentia would show up on the radar, and when Jack Hanson in particular would be exposed.  I must now confess that because I didn't speak up when the time was ripe, a major chance for justice was missed.

As I thought about what was happening in Placentia and what to do about it, I was led to post a warning about existing assemblies on the Rick Ross website.  But I probably would have stopped at that had it not been for the conversations described above which I had with Ron Womack and the other family in Placentia.  These conversations pushed me over the edge into more drastic action.  So I typed a "Warning concerning the Assemblies of George Geftakys", which reads, "The Assemblies of George Geftakys are a dangerous cultic religious group.  To find out about their current status, please log on to www.rickross.com, and type 'geftakys' in the search box.  Or, please read the attached advisory."  The advisory I attached is the same one I posted on this thread at the beginning of August, with additional information about the Geftakys campus ministry.

I left these advisories in post offices, laundromat bulletin boards, libraries, and Internet cafe's in both Fullerton and Placentia.  I left some of these advisories at church offices with church staffs at churches in Placentia (including the church right next to the Placentia Round Table, where the assembly meets).  And today I left advisories at the offices of the faculty advisors for Campus Crusade for Christ at Fullerton College and Cal State Fullerton.

This has been a major step for me - necessary, but very stressful.  This is moreover probably the last step of this kind that I will take, unless someone from Fullerton or Placentia comes to me for advice about leaving these groups.

How to look at Placentia  I can't tell anyone else what to think, but I can give my opinion, based on what I know so far:

1. The Placentia leaders, headed by Jack Hanson, have clearly been dishonest in their handling of the excommunication of George Geftakys.  In particular, they have withheld as much information as possible from their "flock", in order to prevent the sort of necessary fresh look at things and re-evaluation which has led many to leave the Geftakys assemblies over the last seven months.

2.  The Placentia assembly is a controlling, abusive, unhealthy place where the controlling, manipulative ways of Geftakysism are still deeply at home.  Jack Hanson in particular is a man who will tolerate no peers.  In my opinion, he does not feel successful unless he dominates all who are around him.  And he does not feel like a success as a parent unless his kids dominate all their peers.  Jack has been the source of much abuse and heavy-handed treatment of people in Placentia.  One sister who lived in his home for years mentioned to me some of the abuse she suffered there.  And since she knew I had been in Jack's band New Song (which is now defunct Grin) she said to me, "I can't figure how you lasted so long in New Song.  It must have been hell for you!"  Believe me, it was!

3.  How to pray for Placentia: I think we need to pray that God bring that assembly to a swift end.  We need to pray that the people there would be led to find healthy churches where they may be recovered.  And we need to pray even for the leaders, for Jack and Ron and Sterling, that God would recover them.  Why do I say this?  Jack and his wife Linda have been very abusive toward me, and if I needed it, I could find good reason to hate them.  But I read the last chapter of "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" recently.  That chapter is addressed to the perpetrators of abuse.  Instead of being full of woe and damnation, it is a very gracious appeal to them to find healing also.  And in "Churches that Abuse," there is the story of a man who found after he escaped from a cult that the road to healing for him lay in forgiving those who had hurt him.  Note: This in no way invalidates the guilt of these men or the need on our part to warn others of them, unless they repent.

Lastly, please pray for me as I will surely pray for all of you, that the Lord would grant us grace and health to "drive off into the sunset" and begin to enjoy the rest of our lives.  May your drive be pleasant!

Clarence Thompson
aka mithrandir
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M2
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« Reply #221 on: September 03, 2003, 04:10:56 am »

...
I told him that he had just answered all my questions and hung up.  He then called Ron Womack, who is one of the leaders in Placentia.  Ron called me and asked if we could get together sometime.  We decided tentatively to get together on Labor Day.  But I wanted Tom Maddux to join us, and Tom was willing to come along.  When I told Ron that Tom would be there, Ron said, "Oh, no, I just want to talk to you.  I don't see what Tom has to do with Placentia...and I don't want to get ganged-up-on."  (The actual expression he used was more graphic.)  I told him he could bring Jack Hanson or Sterling Bennett if he wanted to (they are the other leaders in Placentia), but he declined.  I proceeded to tell him what my concerns were with Placentia trying to recruit new people into a dysfunctional and abusive gathering, and I asked him the same three questions I mentioned earlier.  His response: "Who are you to tell us how to gather?  Get a life!"  In summary, he refused to meet with both me and Tom Maddux.
Before I left the local assembly here, I wanted to meet with the LBs individually, but was unable to do so, because 'the rule' (for lack of a different word) was that I had to meet with the LBs together. Maybe it has something to do with convincing the other to seeing your point of view which would be easier to do if it was one on one. Huh
Quote
...
As I thought about what was happening in Placentia and what to do about it, I was led to post a warning about existing assemblies on the Rick Ross website.  But I probably would have stopped at that had it not been for the conversations described above which I had with Ron Womack and the other family in Placentia.  These conversations pushed me over the edge into more drastic action.  So I typed a "Warning concerning the Assemblies of George Geftakys", which reads, "The Assemblies of George Geftakys are a dangerous cultic religious group.  To find out about their current status, please log on to www.rickross.com, and type 'geftakys' in the search box.  Or, please read the attached advisory."  The advisory I attached is the same one I posted on this thread at the beginning of August, with additional information about the Geftakys campus ministry.

I left these advisories in post offices, laundromat bulletin boards, libraries, and Internet cafe's in both Fullerton and Placentia.  I left some of these advisories at church offices with church staffs at churches in Placentia (including the church right next to the Placentia Round Table, where the assembly meets).  And today I left advisories at the offices of the faculty advisors for Campus Crusade for Christ at Fullerton College and Cal State Fullerton.

This has been a major step for me - necessary, but very stressful.  This is moreover probably the last step of this kind that I will take, unless someone from Fullerton or Placentia comes to me for advice about leaving these groups.
You've been busy.
Quote
1. The Placentia leaders, headed by Jack Hanson, have clearly been dishonest in their handling of the excommunication of George Geftakys.  In particular, they have withheld as much information as possible from their "flock", in order to prevent the sort of necessary fresh look at things and re-evaluation which has led many to leave the Geftakys assemblies over the last seven months.

2.  The Placentia assembly is a controlling, abusive, unhealthy place where the controlling, manipulative ways of Geftakysism are still deeply at home.  Jack Hanson in particular is a man who will tolerate no peers.  In my opinion, he does not feel successful unless he dominates all who are around him.  And he does not feel like a success as a parent unless his kids dominate all their peers.  Jack has been the source of much abuse and heavy-handed treatment of people in Placentia.  One sister who lived in his home for years mentioned to me some of the abuse she suffered there.  And since she knew I had been in Jack's band New Song (which is now defunct Grin) she said to me, "I can't figure how you lasted so long in New Song.  It must have been hell for you!"  Believe me, it was!

3.  How to pray for Placentia: I think we need to pray that God bring that assembly to a swift end.  We need to pray that the people there would be led to find healthy churches where they may be recovered.  And we need to pray even for the leaders, for Jack and Ron and Sterling, that God would recover them.  Why do I say this?  Jack and his wife Linda have been very abusive toward me, and if I needed it, I could find good reason to hate them.  But I read the last chapter of "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse" recently.  That chapter is addressed to the perpetrators of abuse.  Instead of being full of woe and damnation, it is a very gracious appeal to them to find healing also.  And in "Churches that Abuse," there is the story of a man who found after he escaped from a cult that the road to healing for him lay in forgiving those who had hurt him.  Note: This in no way invalidates the guilt of these men or the need on our part to warn others of them, unless they repent.

Lastly, please pray for me as I will surely pray for all of you, that the Lord would grant us grace and health to "drive off into the sunset" and begin to enjoy the rest of our lives.  May your drive be pleasant!

Clarence Thompson
aka mithrandir
From what I have heard, Anandale is very similar to Placentia, though they are across the continent from each other. How is this possible unless they had the same 'dictator' ruling them? Looks like they were excellent disciples.

The sentiment here is that anyone who reads the website and BB leaves fellowship, so the saints have been discouraged from viewing the BB/GA.com. So on Sunday I sent emails to those I had email-addresses for and told them to make up their own minds and gave them the website and BB addresses.

It is very difficult to make a stand against those you have stood with for 20+ years, so I can understand that it would be stressful. The gathering here is infected with Geftakysism, but the people are nice, which makes it doubly difficult.

Lord bless
Marcia
« Last Edit: September 03, 2003, 04:14:44 am by MM » Logged
jackhutchinson
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« Reply #222 on: September 03, 2003, 04:26:19 am »

Wow, Clarence!  Way to go!

The leaders hold the followers accountable for lots of things, but I guess it only works one way.

These leaders had no qualms about ganging up against one inquisitive 'saint' in secret meetings, but they fear facing more than one (especially when one of them has been out from under their thumbs for a long time).

Jack
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Tony
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« Reply #223 on: September 03, 2003, 06:54:01 am »

Clarence,

I respect your courage in shining the Light into the darkness.

you wrote:
"I told him that he had just answered all my questions and hung up.  He then called Ron Womack, who is one of the leaders in Placentia.  Ron called me and
asked if we could get together sometime.  We decided tentatively to get together on Labor Day.  But I wanted Tom Maddux to join us, and Tom was willing
to come along.  When I told Ron that Tom would be there, Ron said, "Oh, no, I just want to talk to you.  I don't see what Tom has to do with Placentia...and
I don't want to get ganged-up-on."  (The actual expression he used was more graphic.)  I told him he could bring Jack Hanson or Sterling Bennett if he
wanted to (they are the other leaders in Placentia), but he declined.  I proceeded to tell him what my concerns were with Placentia trying to recruit new
people into a dysfunctional and abusive gathering, and I asked him the same three questions I mentioned earlier.  His response: "Who are you to tell us
how to gather?  Get a life!"  In summary, he refused to meet with both me and Tom Maddux."

Sounds to me that some cowards wanted an opportunity to pump themselves up...Boy!  That Tom is a scarey guy!  And the "...get a life..."  sounds like the response of a mature leader!   Maybe instead of bringing Tom, you could bring a couple of 10 year old girls with a year's worth of memory verses.   That should make them tremble.

No offense ment to Tom here.   I had the opportunity to meet him this summer and it was not scarey at all.   In fact, it was a pleasure.  He didn't even laugh at my work bench assembling efforts.

God Bless, Tony Edwards
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Mark C.
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« Reply #224 on: September 03, 2003, 07:12:18 am »

Very well said and very well done Clarence!! Smiley

   God has been so merciful to our former associates in the Assembly who wish to try keep the old system going.
 
    Would Clarence be justified in just forgetting the whole bunch and letting them face the Lord without warning?  Of course he would, and he could just ride off into the sunset (as he said) and let them pursue their ambitions.

     It is not bitterness or revenge that motivates Clarence, or others, who continue with this bb and other avenues of entreaty, but a hope that these folks might find repentance and recovery. ( I say this because that is often the charge against those who zealously desire to see justice done and the truth spoken.  As Clarence said, forgiveness is not turning a blind eye toward justice, truth, acknowledgment of sin, and of repentance from same)
   Paul and Jesus were very strident in their condemnation of the Pharisaical religious crowd, and yet Jesus wept for Jerusalem and Paul said he would be willing to lose salvation that his former associates in his Jewish religion might be saved.
   There would be those who would say Clarence was too strident in his actions, but I think he has the attitude of Jesus that says I love you enough to tell you the truth.
   There is also the attitude that says, "I don't want any other poor little one's to get mixed up in the hellish machinations of Geftakysism as I did."  Love is truth in action and I believe God will honor Clarence and all those who take similar steps in outreach to our former friends.  It may take some years for these things to sink in, but it will be worth it all if even one of these former abusers sees the light and turns to Christ in repentance.
       Thank you Clarence for your example and God Bless,
                                                        Mark C.
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