Existing Assemblies

[faith]

Thanks so much, Clarence, for your personal sacrifice and for doing something about your rightful anger.  I personally witnessed Jack's treatment of you in New Song and others.  I am so glad you are free.  Thank you for caring for others enough to seek to stop the cycle.

I am writing to people in WLA and Riverside.  Even if they reject us today, down the road they will remember our care.  Look at Dave Sable and others who always left the door open for us!

[BeckyW]

Clarence,
Good job, and good post telling everyone.  I have to ask, What do these leaders think an "appropriate" question would be??
The problem is, they have no answers other than the truth, and it's too embarassing at this point to just say that.  
Maybe I'll attempt to answer for them.
"No, we're not accounting for the money, no, of course we can't tell anyone about our history, and no, the people don't have any real say here because we might lose our places of authority".
Anyway, I'm glad you asked and let the answers they gave speak for themselves.
Becky

[mithrandir]

Four further observations:

1.  Al Hartman sent me a message thanking me for my recent post and emphasized what I said about forgiveness.  I just want to clarify this.  I do believe in forgiveness and showing mercy to enemies.  However, if the Geftakys leaders continue to pose a danger to others, we must still treat them as dangerous.  This means exposing their evil deeds and sounding a warning to others.

2.  It has been reported to me by several people that Tim Geftakys is getting more involved in Placentia, including doing things with the young people on Sunday afternoons.  

3.  Now that New Song has disbanded, I don't know what Placentia will do for it's "Concert in the Dark."  But I'm sure Jack has it all figured out.  BTW, the Concert will probably be at Tri-City Park tomorrow or next Friday.

4.  The school property where Cornerstone used to be is in escrow.  My question to the leaders and handlers of the money is, What do you intend to do with the money?  It's not that I want any of it (although I'm sure that the money used to buy the Cornerstone school site came from all our gifts and offerings).  But I don't think you leaders are to be trusted with it.  By all means, give it to charity and let us see you giving it to charity in a way that can be clearly traced!  Don't give us just one more reason to be disgusted by you...

mithrandir

[Oscar]

Clarence,

It is my understanding, (such as it is) that in a California non-profit corportation with tax exemption that all assets must be liquidated and turned over to other non-profits.

However, there may be a way to lawyer one's way through this...setting up your own "ministry" or whatever.

I am pretty sure that all these transactions must be a matter of public record.

Tom M.

[Eulaha L. Long]

So...is it true then that Cornerstone (Christian Heritage) is no longer in existence?  Why did it go out of business (so to speak)?

[editor]

So...is it true then that Cornerstone (Christian Heritage) is no longer in existence?  Why did it go out of business (so to speak)?

No students=no money.
Smaller Assembly=no money

If they mixed Assembly money and school money, they are in big trouble.  


Brent

[enchilada]

I want my money back so I can go buy enough food to become obese like Tim Geftakys; and enough car parts to open a small junk yard like his brother....

Actually, a new set of very nice tires would amount to the money I was suckered out of, and I'm grateful that it wasn't more.   But even if it were, say my life savings or more, I'd still be grateful that at least I got out alive.  I wonder how many people ended up killing themselves as a result of their involvement in the Geftakys Cult.  What a testimony of GG: to have organized a death trap for some Christians.  

Perhaps the existing assemblies should add a warning in their invitations to their Bible studies that some of those who get involved may experience premature death.

Anyway, in an attempt to end this with a cheerful thought, here's a smiley face:  

[Uh Oh]

No students=no money.
Smaller Assembly=no money

If they mixed Assembly money and school money, they are in big trouble.  


Brent

Could you expand on this?

[editor]

No students=no money.
Smaller Assembly=no money

If they mixed Assembly money and school money, they are in big trouble.  


Brent

Could you expand on this?

Sure can!

If I give money for Tim's trip to Europe, and it is actually spent on a new desk for Ginger over at Cornerstone, this is considered illegal and improper use of donations.  Another example, if I give money to a leading brother, who is going administer the money in order to help a sick brother, but he gives it to George instead---big problem.

If I give money to Cornerstone, allegedly for tuition, and it is used to buy Ginger a car (sure, it's The Lord's car, but only Ginger drives it) big trouble.

If I give a tithe and put it in the box on the back table for that purpose, and my tithe goes to a business, Cornerstone----big trouble.  Serious big trouble.

First of all, George claimed that the Assembly wasn't a business----actually it was 3 businesses, but that's another story.   George claims that the money he took was all a gift to him.  So's if give him gifts, see?  And then he gives my gift to Cornerstone, then I'm not really giving him a gift, he is giving a gift.

Is this salary?  Has he accounted for all of this?  Where is the money?  Are the books being kept in a manner befitting a church?  We don't know

Perhaps the IRS will want to know.  I do know, for a fact, that it is illegal to mix funds in a church.  Money given to the "building fund," must be used for the same.  It can't be spent on plastic trees to spruce up the front of the sanctuary.  Money given for the youth group's trip to Barstow can't be used to buy an X-Box for the pastor, etc.

All of this applies to the Assembly, regardless of what George says about the church not being a business.

Brent

[M2]

I post this at the request of another. Please comment.

I still think that, when Christians choose to meet together to serve the Lord from an honest desire to glorify Him, He will bless and provide for His people. The attitude of the people is paramount. I do not see how an association with someone like GG can change that.

On the other hand, I begin to see how some harmfull teaching may remain after the man leaves. I understand that you (plural) believe that it is impossible to distinguish between truth and error but I am not yet convinced that we must seek outside help (beside the books, tapes, and lectures we are using now, more than before).

Marcia

[Uh Oh]

If I give money for Tim's trip to Europe, and it is actually spent on a new desk for Ginger over at Cornerstone, this is considered illegal and improper use of donations.  Another example, if I give money to a leading brother, who is going administer the money in order to help a sick brother, but he gives it to George instead---big problem.

If I give money to Cornerstone, allegedly for tuition, and it is used to buy Ginger a car (sure, it's The Lord's car, but only Ginger drives it) big trouble.

If I give a tithe and put it in the box on the back table for that purpose, and my tithe goes to a business, Cornerstone----big trouble.  Serious big trouble.

First of all, George claimed that the Assembly wasn't a business----actually it was 3 businesses, but that's another story.   George claims that the money he took was all a gift to him.  So's if give him gifts, see?  And then he gives my gift to Cornerstone, then I'm not really giving him a gift, he is giving a gift.

Is this salary?  Has he accounted for all of this?  Where is the money?  Are the books being kept in a manner befitting a church?  We don't know

Perhaps the IRS will want to know.  I do know, for a fact, that it is illegal to mix funds in a church.  Money given to the "building fund," must be used for the same.  It can't be spent on plastic trees to spruce up the front of the sanctuary.  Money given for the youth group's trip to Barstow can't be used to buy an X-Box for the pastor, etc.

All of this applies to the Assembly, regardless of what George says about the church not being a business.

Brent

Right on Brent!  I had completely forgot about Cornerstone.  No doubt they mingled assembly/school finances.

At some point, people in denial are going to see the light and realize that the assembly hierarchy was involved in more illegal than legal activities...The problem though is that it is just really hard to prove all of this stuff.  The IRS is so backlogged as it is, that if one can't give enough credible evidence regarding a situation, they aren't going to put it anywhere near the top of their priority list.

Time to open up another can of worms...The assembly hierarchy made it a practice to cover up spousal abuse, adultery, financial matters,etc...What about cases of sexual abuse?  I know for a fact that around 1985/86  there was a case of a middle aged man in the Omaha assembly whose behaviour was completely innapropriate towards a 12 year old boy.  The 12 year old was coming out to the meetings by himself...He was from a very rough background - his father was not in the picture and he was the oldest of 4-5 siblings.  He was easy prey for this middle aged man.  This middle aged man would call him constantly and invite him over to spend the night and make references that they would share a bed...This situation came to a head at an outreach one Sunday afternoon between meetings  when this piece of s##t lured this boy into a restroom.  Due to the fact that I got in there before anything started, nothing to bad happened.  When everyone got back to the meeting place, I think a few of the "brothers" pulled this guy into one of the rooms and that was the last time that guy ever set foot in the meeting place.

Heres the problem...At the time, the victim and myself were the same age and hung out at assembly functions - which meant we saw each other a lot.  He let me know that this guy was calling him and was acting strange.  The phone calls would get weirder by the week.  He had let people know that he had a "burden" for this kid.  I let my mom know who let some of the "brothers"know.  Apparently it wasn't a huge issue because nothing was ever done and this situation was allowed to escalate.  No doubt had it been any of the leaderships children, it would never have got this far, but because it was a child from a rough background, no credence to this boys fears was ever given.  When the situation did come to a head that day, this guy was simply told not to come back. The police were not called, and this guy more than likely was able to assult children in a different environment.  Obviously, the authorities were not called because the assembly did not want to draw any attention to itself.  Yet another way the "leadership" failed to lead and protect its "flock".

No doubt that this is not the only case.  My point for telling this is that if money is ever recovered, it would certainly be good for funds to be distributed to those who were hurt and abused the most.  

I completely stand by this account and dare anyone who was around at the time to aware of this situation to contradict this.  I don't forget!!!

 Bob Franzese
Omaha 1975 - 1993...Way to long!!!

[Oscar]

Bob, (UhOh),

I think the problem with the mixing funds idea is that all donations were cash, and the announcement was constantly made that the money was to be used for, "the work here and abroad".  

So, anything that was done under the ministry's umbrella was "the work".

If checks were written to a non-profit corporation, and then diverted to personal use...then you've got something.

Even here there are ways to legally use non-profit funds for personal use.  The organization can buy houses, cars, or whatever for the use of the organization's officers.

I recall a Suburban that belonged to "Cornerstone" that seemed to always have a member of the Geftakys family behind the wheel.

Wrong?  Seems so to me.  Illegal, I doubt it.

Thomas Maddux

[editor]

Bob, (UhOh),

I think the problem with the mixing funds idea is that all donations were cash, and the announcement was constantly made that the money was to be used for, "the work here and abroad".  

So, anything that was done under the ministry's umbrella was "the work".

If checks were written to a non-profit corporation, and then diverted to personal use...then you've got something.

Even here there are ways to legally use non-profit funds for personal use.  The organization can buy houses, cars, or whatever for the use of the organization's officers.

I recall a Suburban that belonged to "Cornerstone" that seemed to always have a member of the Geftakys family behind the wheel.

Wrong?  Seems so to me.  Illegal, I doubt it.

Thomas Maddux

Hi Tom

Actually, this is illegal.  I have studied this in depth, and one of the requirements for church record keeping is in order to demonstrate that funds were not mingled.  

If I have two businesses, both philanthropic in nature, and I solicit donations for the one--breast cancer research let's say---but use the money for the other----an animal rights organization, I am in trouble.  Big trouble.

The same kind of laws apply for the church.

Brent

[vernecarty]

Actually, this is illegal.  I have studied this in depth, and one of the requirements for church record keeping is in order to demonstrate that funds were not mingled.  

If I have two businesses, both philanthropic in nature, and I solicit donations for the one--breast cancer research let's say---but use the money for the other----an animal rights organization, I am in trouble.  Big trouble.

The same kind of laws apply for the church.

Brent

We at CAC recently learned how strict this provision is (somewhat to our surprise). If the privilege, service or gift is not fully documented as having taken place or otherwise been utilized "in the line of duty" so to speak, it must be reported as income. A Pastor for example cannot just be given an "allowance" or "stipend" even though intended to cover incurred expenses and not report that money as income unless he itemizes and documents each and every expense and pays taxes on any difference between what he received and what was incurred. Pretty clear no?
This is where I think the Government will eventually get George. They will figure out how much money the assembly took in and that it all went to George. They will review the documented expenses of his not-for-profit organizations and they will hold him liable for the difference, regardless of what he reported. I think it is only a matter of time....
Verne
p.s.
The Feds have become in recent years estremely adept at finding hidden money. How many millions do you think the Geftakys have esconced with? THE MAN TOOK IN MILLIONS!  
He can in all likelihood easily pay the back taxes, penalities and interest...UNLESS THEY INDICT HIM FOR TAX EVASION  

[vernecarty]

I post this at the request of another. Please comment.

I still think that, when Christians choose to meet together to serve the Lord from an honest desire to glorify Him, He will bless and provide for His people. The attitude of the people is paramount. I do not see how an association with someone like GG can change that.

On the other hand, I begin to see how some harmfull teaching may remain after the man leaves. I understand that you (plural) believe that it is impossible to distinguish between truth and error but I am not yet convinced that we must seek outside help (beside the books, tapes, and lectures we are using now, more than before).

Marcia

I would ask this person if they think the current leadership worthy of their trust and if so, why?If this person is a leader I would ask if they consider themselves worthy of trust and why...
Verne