Existing Assemblies

[vernecarty]

At the end of April a couple from Beijing stayed in our home for about 10 days. I personally witnessed their devotion and love for the Lord. They had not 'grieved' the Holy Spirit, and were/are still sensitive to His leading in their lives. I will have to agree that the China assemblies are more autonomous than the assemblies on the North American continent.

And that is excellent news.  George's influence can be purged, but his control must be broken.  He didn't control all of the foreign groups.....Praise God!


Brent

How strange it is that our foreign brethren appear to have been in possession of much more discernment and integrity than those nurtured and cultivated in GG's bosom...and we supposedly had so much to teach them...I could tell you stories about our dear brother Peter Kibas in Kenya...
Verne

[editor]

How strange it is that our foreign brethren appear to have been in possession of much more discernment and integrity than those nurtured and cultivated in GG's bosom...and we supposedly had so much to teach them...I could tell you stories about our dear brother Peter Kibas in Kenya...
Verne

Verne,

Isn't Peter Kibas the brother who lived in Fullerton for a while, and then went back to Kenya, only to "leave the work, and draw back in service to the Lord?"

If I have the right guy, I would love to hear what really happened.

You know,  If some other people had been willing to hold George accountable, and break the can't talk rule, then you wouldn't have needed a rude, unloving, graceless, divisive, arrogant, sarcastic, satanic, ambitious, person like me to do it. (I am told by certain geftaysservants that these words describe me.)

It would have been much nicer, both for them and me.  Too bad.

Brent

[mithrandir]

I'd like to give you all a further update on Cornerstone Academy.

The school property has been sold.  Escrow has closed and money has changed hands.  I heard that some people were asking what would be done with the money, and were being given the run-around.  So I asked Rod Zach point-blank what would be done with the money.  He said, "The school board will decide."  End of subject.

Well, giving that kind of answer to me is kind of like slapping a pit bull.  So I said, "Rod, let me tell you what I think should be done with the money.  The 'school board' should hold public meetings where the handling of the money is publicly decided, with public, well-kept, traceable records of what happens to the money.  All the leaders in Fullerton were standing up in front of us in January all crying about how they were deceived by George and were repenting.  One way to show repentance is by doing things out in the open.  Anything less than this would be unsatisfactory."

So he asked, "Unsatisfactory for you?"  I said, "Unsatisfactory for the 'school board.'  Some of you don't seem to understand.  You all stood up in front of us for years and told us that you were God's servants, that we needed to submit to you and imitate your example, and that we could trust you to advise us.  And some of us took some extremely heavy hits from you over the years - and we just swallowed it.  Now you can't figure out why so many of us have been so angry with you over the last seven months (in fact, I'm still angry).  If the school board wants to carry on like nothing has changed, I can't stop you.  I never had much authority around here, and now I have even less because I'm on the outside.  But the 'school board' had better worry about God, and all those things in Ezekiel 34 and Matthew 23.  It all applies."  

Rod said, "Well, pray for the school board."  I said, "I will.  And I'll pray for you."

My thoughts on this  It seems that nothing has changed with certain people.  They are still as willing as ever to sell their souls for some loose change.  I have very little hope that the 'school board' will act righteously with the money.  I have said before that I think they should give the money to a charity and that they should do it publicly.  Some of the money could also be given to one of the Cornerstone teachers who has had to live at the poverty level for several years in her "service" to the school.  But it appears that whatever the 'school board' does, it will be done in secret.  By the way, I believe Jack Hanson, Ginger Geftakys and Rod Zach comprise the 'board'.

I am grieved for the children of some of these leaders, because over the years I have gotten to know many of them and have developed delightful friendships with them.  I have loved hanging out with them, enjoying their cute, goofy quirkiness, and just having fun with them.  It is because of the kids that I have gone easy on the parents.  It is because of my friendships with the kids that I posted anonymously at first.  But if the parents are going to live in willful dishonesty, they will eventually ruin their kids.  The Lord Himself said, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel about on sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him twofold a son of hell as yourselves."

I have to say that at this stage of my life, there are people I am truly sorry to have met, sorry to have known.  It would have been better for me never to have met them.  This is a heavy thing to have to say.  Indeed, all I can say is, may God have mercy on their souls before it's too late.  I believe I have done my duty in helping to blow the whistle on these people, but continuing to monitor what the existing Geftakysites do is kind of like staring continuously at a clogged toilet.  And there is that verse in Phillipians 4, "Finally, whatever things are good, whatever things are right,...think on these things."  I believe that the Geftakysites will not change.  They are going to do what they are going to do unless God takes all power of action away from them (perhaps through getting caught in things that are plainly illegal).  For me, however, it may be time to look at something much more encouraging, and to leave them in God's hands.  Something to think about...

mithrandir

[editor]

Clarence

Who owned the building?  Whose name is on the trust deed?
If Cornerstone was a non-profit, then its assets must be disposed of in the form of charitable contributions.  If anyone makes a dime off of this, they are committing a serious tax crime.

I am calling someone tomorrow morning about this.  If you can tell me who is on the deed, or what the address of the property is, I would appreciate it.

Brent

[Tony]

How strange it is that our foreign brethren appear to have been in possession of much more discernment and integrity than those nurtured and cultivated in GG's bosom...and we supposedly had so much to teach them...I could tell you stories about our dear brother Peter Kibas in Kenya...
Verne

Verne,

Isn't Peter Kibas the brother who lived in Fullerton for a while, and then went back to Kenya, only to "leave the work, and draw back in service to the Lord?"

If I have the right guy, I would love to hear what really happened.

You know,  If some other people had been willing to hold George accountable, and break the can't talk rule, then you wouldn't have needed a rude, unloving, graceless, divisive, arrogant, sarcastic, satanic, ambitious, person like me to do it. (I am told by certain geftaysservants that these words describe me.)

It would have been much nicer, both for them and me.  Too bad.

Brent

Verne,   Samuel must have really bowled you over for you to give him such a free ride!  I am wondering how many messages, calls or letters Brent has from the foreign assemblies?  It wasn't that long ago that Samuel referred to George as"The Lord's Servant!"   He was peddling the same stuff and was either deceived or accountable...Which is it???Or is it a lot of both?

Verne, I'm sorry but this statement is rather hypocritical to me: "our foreign brethren appear to have been in possession of much more discernment and integrity"  
   On what do you base this...has any of them come out publicly and denounced the teachings of George or is it the same old lines that we've read here over and over again?   It seems to me that you are using a different measuring device.
   Like I said earlier, Brent must have tons of messages from Samuel and others.

Brent, I hope that you leave a forwarding address if you move so that one day, and I believe this will happen, you will receive numerous letters of apology and appreciation from former leaders and workers in this false ministry.

Thankful for Truth and Grace,  Tony Edwards

[vernecarty]

Verne,   Samuel must have really bowled you over for you to give him such a free ride!  I am wondering how many messages, calls or letters Brent has from the foreign assemblies?  It wasn't that long ago that Samuel referred to George as"The Lord's Servant!"   He was peddling the same stuff and was either deceived or accountable...Which is it???Or is it a lot of both?

Verne, I'm sorry but this statement is rather hypocritical to me: "our foreign brethren appear to have been in possession of much more discernment and integrity"  
   On what do you base this...

Well Tony, the fact is my assessment could be wrong. It would be pointless for me to argue with your viewpoint since you have not talked to Samuel and do not know what your position would be if you did. Why do we not simply observe what he does?
Let me explain something to you about African culture, a matter completely lost on George Geftakys and thoroughly abused by him. There is no respect due, such as is due the one holding the position of an elder of the people and I don't mean that in just the spiritual sense. George was viewed by many as both. George's awful shortcomings were not at all lost on Samuel. No question he and others failed to effectively respond with regard to the Biblical prescription for a man of George Geftakys' ilk. For that he accepts responsibility.
The constraints Samuel faced in dealing with George Geftakys not only spiritually but also culturally is something the parochial of mind will not easily understand. If you think I am giving him a free ride as compared to the responsible men in Fullerton, so be it. I am quite comfortable with that.
Verne

[M2]

Hi Tony,

My two cents worth.

I had to evaluate as well whether or not I had been bowled over by the Chinese couple, hence my reason for not commenting on them earlier. Ing's email helped to solidify my inclination to believe that the Chinese (and also the Nigerian) assemblies were more autonomous than the North American ones.

I do not believe that they had worker's meeting where they reviewed the Fullerton worker's meeting notes. I do not believe that they called Fullerton once a week to get 'programmed'. If they called any one, it was very likely that they called Roger Grant or Wayne Mathews. Also, Ing was quick to inform GG not to go to China on his January itinerant trip. Ing did this before the excomm.. but upon hearing of the DG issue (I think).

In a way it would have been great if Sam O and James O had indeed entreated GG on his issue at the worker's conf. But though they didn't then, God did not forget. PTL for Brent who was willing to torch the testimony to Geftakysism at great 'cost' to himself.

Anyway, something to think about.
Lord bless,
Marcia

[vernecarty]

How strange it is that our foreign brethren appear to have been in possession of much more discernment and integrity than those nurtured and cultivated in GG's bosom...and we supposedly had so much to teach them...I could tell you stories about our dear brother Peter Kibas in Kenya...
Verne

Verne,

Isn't Peter Kibas the brother who lived in Fullerton for a while, and then went back to Kenya, only to "leave the work, and draw back in service to the Lord?"

If I have the right guy, I would love to hear what really happened.

You know,  If some other people had been willing to hold George accountable, and break the can't talk rule, then you wouldn't have needed a rude, unloving, graceless, divisive, arrogant, sarcastic, satanic, ambitious, person like me to do it. (I am told by certain geftaysservants that these words describe me.)

It would have been much nicer, both for them and me.  Too bad.

Brent

Same one Brent. George Geftakys did not reckon on one thing- Peter Kibas is a Masai.
When it comes to a well-defined sense of self, the Masai are peerless,  I will give you the details privately. No one dominates members of this tribe. No one!
Peter Kibas did the same thing I did - took a close look at George Geftakys and what he stood for and walked away.
 I just love the man!
Peter has planted several churches in Kenya and is a dynamic force for the gospel in that country. I spent some time with him in Nairobi last Summer and he is doing very well, most recently as professor of Economics at the U.S. International University Nairobi campus.
Verne

You noticed George did not visit Kenya for the last several years. He led many of us to believe that he was somehow a favorite of former president Moy...you don't know the half of it...!

[M2]

I'd like to give you all a further update on Cornerstone Academy.

The school property has been sold.  Escrow has closed and money has changed hands.  I heard that some people were asking what would be done with the money, and were being given the run-around.  So I asked Rod Zach point-blank what would be done with the money.  He said, "The school board will decide."  End of subject.

Well, giving that kind of answer to me is kind of like slapping a pit bull.  So I said, "Rod, let me tell you what I think should be done with the money.  The 'school board' should hold public meetings where the handling of the money is publicly decided, with public, well-kept, traceable records of what happens to the money.  All the leaders in Fullerton were standing up in front of us in January all crying about how they were deceived by George and were repenting.  One way to show repentance is by doing things out in the open.  Anything less than this would be unsatisfactory."

So he asked, "Unsatisfactory for you?"  I said, "Unsatisfactory for the 'school board.'  Some of you don't seem to understand.  You all stood up in front of us for years and told us that you were God's servants, that we needed to submit to you and imitate your example, and that we could trust you to advise us.  And some of us took some extremely heavy hits from you over the years - and we just swallowed it.  Now you can't figure out why so many of us have been so angry with you over the last seven months (in fact, I'm still angry).  If the school board wants to carry on like nothing has changed, I can't stop you.  I never had much authority around here, and now I have even less because I'm on the outside.  But the 'school board' had better worry about God, and all those things in Ezekiel 34 and Matthew 23.  It all applies."  

Rod said, "Well, pray for the school board."  I said, "I will.  And I'll pray for you."

My thoughts on this  It seems that nothing has changed with certain people.  They are still as willing as ever to sell their souls for some loose change.  I have very little hope that the 'school board' will act righteously with the money.  I have said before that I think they should give the money to a charity and that they should do it publicly.  Some of the money could also be given to one of the Cornerstone teachers who has had to live at the poverty level for several years in her "service" to the school.  But it appears that whatever the 'school board' does, it will be done in secret.  By the way, I believe Jack Hanson, Ginger Geftakys and Rod Zach comprise the 'board'.

I am grieved for the children of some of these leaders, because over the years I have gotten to know many of them and have developed delightful friendships with them.  I have loved hanging out with them, enjoying their cute, goofy quirkiness, and just having fun with them.  It is because of the kids that I have gone easy on the parents.  It is because of my friendships with the kids that I posted anonymously at first.  But if the parents are going to live in willful dishonesty, they will eventually ruin their kids.  The Lord Himself said, "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you travel about on sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him twofold a son of hell as yourselves."

I have to say that at this stage of my life, there are people I am truly sorry to have met, sorry to have known.  It would have been better for me never to have met them.  This is a heavy thing to have to say.  Indeed, all I can say is, may God have mercy on their souls before it's too late.  I believe I have done my duty in helping to blow the whistle on these people, but continuing to monitor what the existing Geftakysites do is kind of like staring continuously at a clogged toilet.  And there is that verse in Phillipians 4, "Finally, whatever things are good, whatever things are right,...think on these things."  I believe that the Geftakysites will not change.  They are going to do what they are going to do unless God takes all power of action away from them (perhaps through getting caught in things that are plainly illegal).  For me, however, it may be time to look at something much more encouraging, and to leave them in God's hands.  Something to think about...

mithrandir

Clarence,

I agree with the perspectives you have presented in this post. I want my money back so that I can help support a poor sister who was 'abused' by the Geftakys family, but who learned to endure hardness and trust God. She now wants to go to China as a missionary with OMF. There are many needy ones out there who deserve the money that was misused by GG and family.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[vernecarty]

Hi Tony,

My two cents worth.

I had to evaluate as well whether or not I had been bowled over by the Chinese couple, hence my reason for not commenting on them earlier. Ing's email helped to solidify my inclination to believe that the Chinese (and also the Nigerian) assemblies were more autonomous than the North American ones.

I do not believe that they had worker's meeting where they reviewed the Fullerton worker's meeting notes. I do not believe that they called Fullerton once a week to get 'programmed'. If they called any one, it was very likely that they called Roger Grant or Wayne Mathews. Also, Ing was quick to inform GG not to go to China on his January itinerant trip. Ing did this before the excomm.. but upon hearing of the DG issue (I think).

In a way it would have been great if Sam O and James O had indeed entreated GG on his issue at the worker's conf. But though they didn't then, God did not forget. PTL for Brent who was willing to torch the testimony to Geftakysism at great 'cost' to himself.

Anyway, something to think about.
Lord bless,
Marcia

It is not co-incidental that George's house of cards was aided in its downward crash by the testimony of a member of his own family.
It was necessary that the downfall of George Geftakys be leveraged from someone inside. God fingered Brent Tr0ckman. It could never have been done by Samuel and James. They would have been sent back to Nigeria in disgrace (and Ogebe was a Chief Justice!) and it would have been sanctioned by the Fullerton bosses. I think that outcome would have been preferable. It is always right to stand for righteousness, no matter the cost. They were practical, ( if not Scriptural) in their choice. The Fullerton bretheren, however, are supremely culpable for George's legacy.
Verne

[Arthur]

So I asked Rod Zach point-blank what would be done with the money.  He said, "The school board will decide."  End of subject.

Well, giving that kind of answer to me is kind of like slapping a pit bull.  So I said, "Rod, let me tell you what I think should be done with the money.  The 'school board' should hold public meetings where the handling of the money is publicly decided, with public, well-kept, traceable records of what happens to the money.  All the leaders in Fullerton were standing up in front of us in January all crying about how they were deceived by George and were repenting.  One way to show repentance is by doing things out in the open.  Anything less than this would be unsatisfactory."

So he asked, "Unsatisfactory for you?"  I said, "Unsatisfactory for the 'school board.'  Some of you don't seem to understand.  You all stood up in front of us for years and told us that you were God's servants, that we needed to submit to you and imitate your example, and that we could trust you to advise us.  And some of us took some extremely heavy hits from you over the years - and we just swallowed it.  Now you can't figure out why so many of us have been so angry with you over the last seven months (in fact, I'm still angry).  If the school board wants to carry on like nothing has changed, I can't stop you.  I never had much authority around here, and now I have even less because I'm on the outside.  But the 'school board' had better worry about God, and all those things in Ezekiel 34 and Matthew 23.  It all applies."  

Rod said, "Well, pray for the school board."  I said, "I will.  And I'll pray for you."

Right on Clarence!  Way to hold them accountable.  That is exactly what is needed and you told him right to his face!  Frankly, I'm surprised he listened to you at all.

So he asked, "Unsatisfactory for you?"  

Man if that doesn't sound familiar.  That is just like Rod to turn the issue around and put the blame on the one doing the inquiry.  Grrr, getting angry...grrr...ok, I'm calm.

Keep up the good work, bro.  We're pulling for ya.

If you need any moral support down there to confront these guys, I may just be moved to make the arduous drive to back u up.  And I promise to use the public rest rooms this time.  

Arthur

[Arthur]

You know,  If some other people had been willing to hold George accountable, and break the can't talk rule, then you wouldn't have needed a rude, unloving, graceless, divisive, arrogant, sarcastic, satanic, ambitious, person like me to do it. (I am told by certain geftaysservants that these words describe me.)

You forgot "covetous".  That was like the main one for a long time.

I'm there for ya.

Arthur  

[outdeep]

When I went to Amsterdam 2000 with my wife a few years ago (I work for Samaritan's Purse, so got a free ride to go there and help), I met hundreds of evangelists just like Samuel - in a good sense.  They were earnest, singleminded, and undestracted from the trappings we so often face as Christians in America.

I used to think what an unprecidented contact Samuel was for the ministry and was awed that George was invited to the exotic continent of Africa.  When I met all these evangelists from Africa, South America and Asia, I discovered that any one of us could fanangle a "journey".  Evanglists from small African villages would LOVE for an American teacher to travel to their home to help them with their work if we pay the expenses.   I got several invitations myself and you would too if you met them.

Steve Irons once made an off the cuff comment about how much the ministry helped Samuel.  Apparently, we sent money to him to help him build his home as well as supply a vehicle for his ministry.   I am sure it was a difficult position for Samuel wondering how to challenge George knowing how how much George's ministry provided for him materially (relatively speaking - a little goes a long way in a poor nation).   Not to mention the cultural challenges that Verne pointed out.

I was worried about Samuel being in this kind of bind and am thankful that he is apparently working his way out of it.

[Uh Oh]

By the way, I believe Jack Hanson, Ginger Geftakys and Rod Zach comprise the 'board'.

Well geez. thats a real neutral school board.  Glad to see that they were sticking true to assembly form with no system of checks and balances whatsoever!!!

I can just see their meeting...

Rod:  "Its time to call this meeting to order.  The main topic of today is how to distribute the assets of the Cornerstone Academy..."

Ginger:  "Well, I need a new car, and I can tell you that at some point and time, my husband is going to see the light and realize that he needs to lose that 120 pounds of excess blubber...Weight watchers program aren't exactly cheap these days..."

Jack:  "Well I...."

Rod:  Then its settled, 100% of all assets will be given to George Geftakys...We really need to help our brother in this time of need.  Since he has been excommunicated, his cash flow has substantially decreased.  Our brother has suffered enough.  Settled!!! Lets pray.

[Joe Sperling]

Uh-oh----

That's funny!!!        But I think you hit the nail on the head!!

--Joe