Existing Assemblies

[chrisnortonfan1]

Marcia:
That was a joke....I thankfully did not have to resort to therapy due to my five plus years in the assembly. And yes, I am quite aware they meet in Springfield.  
I'm good friends with the Weisers.
Noel

[M2]

Oh, no, painful memories of East Coast Conferences past are not floating through my head.  Did you have to bring up a bad Ottawa joke, Marcia??? ...Although when I heard it told, it was "hey, did you hear about the two sisters in Annandale?, Ann and Dale?  Get it?  Funny?  hahaha?".  It took me three years of therapy to get over that.

Noel,

Just commenting again on the bad Ottawa joke(r). It's our secret weapon. The originator of the joke figures that he could apply for a border crossing guard position. He could just stand there and tell his jokes and everyone would turn back. What do you think? If you are thinking of visiting us any time soon, I'll warn him to let you through.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[mithrandir]

I had an interesting experience recently.  This year, the Orange County Juvenile Hall Christmas Project was taken over by Evangelical Free Church in Fullerton.  It seems that Joe Bush talked to them and handed the oversight of the project off to them (a good move, in my opinion).  I was visiting EV Free and saw some of their many outreach projects.  I noticed the Juvenile Hall project, and saw a sign-up list for it, so I signed up.  I was thinking, “Great!  I can go into Juvenile Hall this Christmas to minister to kids, and I won’t have to deal with any Assemblyites!”  (Some days I can be quite dense…perhaps from not getting enough sleep.)  

Well, EV Free held an orientation meeting a week before we went in, and while there were many people I’d never seen before, I also saw Ron Womack, Sterling Bennett, some of the women from Placentia, and some of the men and women from the Fullerton assembly.  Sterling came up to me all full of smiles and said, “Hi brother!”  I looked at him and asked, “Are you still a leading brother in the Placentia assembly?”  He said, “Yup, sure am!”  I turned and walked away.  Then one of the young women from the Placentia assembly tried to strike up a conversation with me, and I asked her a few pointed questions re. Placentia.  It turns out that they still have young women living in Jack Hanson’s house, that they are still trying to recruit new people at Fullerton College, and that there has been no open discussion regarding the collapse of the Geftakys ministry.  The same lying, blind guides are in charge.  I told her that I had long since left Fullerton, and that in my opinion, the Fullerton and Placentia assemblies were a cult.  This statement gave her a mild case of indigestion, but then the truth hurts sometimes.

Also, I heard from the Christmas Project leader that the Protestant chaplain at Juvenile Hall knows about some of the problems with the Geftakys groups, and with Fullerton and Placentia.  I don’t know how much he knows, because I was not able to talk with him personally.

The actual project itself was fun.  There were no Geftakysites in my volunteer group.  Also, we didn’t have to do the “Christmas Pageant play”.  (I always hated putting a shirt or a Burger King crown on my head.)

One other thing: I have found out other things regarding the leaders in Placentia – things which more than ever convince me that these are abusive, worthless men and hypocrites, utterly unfit to lead anyone in moral matters.  At least one of them and his wife knew about the abuse of Judy Geftakys three years ago, yet covered up that knowledge.  And there are more things – but I won’t go into them now.

BTW, the “Who’s Your Daddy” article by Dave Sable is excellent.  It parallels some things which I also have been thinking about.  Someday I’ll post my two cents…

mithrandir

[editor]

Well, EV Free held an orientation meeting a week before we went in, and while there were many people I’d never seen before, I also saw Ron Womack, Sterling Bennett, some of the women from Placentia, and some of the men and women from the Fullerton assembly.  Sterling came up to me all full of smiles and said, “Hi brother!”  I looked at him and asked, “Are you still a leading brother in the Placentia assembly?”  He said, “Yup, sure am!”  I turned and walked away.  Then one of the young women from the Placentia assembly tried to strike up a conversation with me, and I asked her a few pointed questions re. Placentia.  It turns out that they still have young women living in Jack Hanson’s house, that they are still trying to recruit new people at Fullerton College, and that there has been no open discussion regarding the collapse of the Geftakys ministry.  The same lying, blind guides are in charge.  I told her that I had long since left Fullerton, and that in my opinion, the Fullerton and Placentia assemblies were a cult.  This statement gave her a mild case of indigestion, but then the truth hurts sometimes.

Hi Clarence

While I totally agree with your assessment of the group and the blindness of the leaders, I have to REJOICE about what you said up above.   The EV Free folks are not going to be fooled in to becoming "Assemblified," and the geftakysites contact with EV Free can only be healthy.  Of course they are going to get as much mileage out of this as possible,  "We do things with other churches,  the internet is wrong!"  We all know that.  However, THEY know that this is the first time they have "done things" with other churches.  This openess, this glasnost, is a good thing.

What this means is that they are willing to compromise the "Heavenly Vision," because:

A.) they are learning new things, which is great!
B.) they are cloaking themselves in new ways, trying to appear beautiful to men
C.) both A and B

These events are totally significant, and they signal the death of the group...in one way of the other.  Does this mean I am endorsing them, or taking a soft stance towards them?  In no way.  However, I recognize progress here, and I rejoice that they are moving towards EV Free and not away from them.

While everything you said is true, and much more,  look at the Christmas project as an outreach to cult members, not just an outreach to juvenile offenders.

I am encouraged.

Brent

[summer007]

In all fairness between 1980 and 1985 I was part of the retirment outreach and we simply preached the gospel to the elderly and visited them each week..no one was recruiting them into the fellowship....also I took part in the juvenil hall outreach and everyone seemed genuine  and a few were saved I personally led at least 2 or 3 people to christ in both groups never pushing them to join up with us.. these were  widows and orphans so to speak....Also a group of us went to  a Billy Graham crusade and a LB and myself went to hear JVernon McGee speak...it seemed fine with everyone then and we visited a church to see the Godmakers...and I think they did a radio show with a mission group in LA... but then could'nt AFFORD the radio costs and stopped.....It seems the leash was really tightened in the last few years...

[editor]

In all fairness between 1980 and 1985 I was part of the retirment outreach and we simply preached the gospel to the elderly and visited them each week..no one was recruiting them into the fellowship....also I took part in the juvenil hall outreach and everyone seemed genuine  and a few were saved I personally led at least 2 or 3 people to christ in both groups never pushing them to join up with us.. these were  widows and orphans so to speak....Also a group of us went to  a Billy Graham crusade and a LB and myself went to hear JVernon McGee speak...it seemed fine with everyone then and we visited a church to see the Godmakers...and I think they did a radio show with a mission group in LA... but then could'nt AFFORD the radio costs and stopped.....It seems the leash was really tightened in the last few years...

The leash was definitely on in the early 80's, but it got much, much shorter in the late 80's and early 90's.   Things got quite bad after Steve and Margaret, Tom and the rest "left fellowship," in the early 90's.   Betty ideas got more developed in the late 80's, reaching their zenith in her excruciating, twisted rendition of Virginia Fugate's book,  "The Other Side of The Garden."

Also, G and B twisted Solomon's "Handbook to Happiness," into the horrible thing it became in the late 1980's.  It only got worse from there, but the group was still weird in the early 80's.  Weird begat weird.

Your observations are totally correct about outreach.  There were many genuine people in the group, who outreached in order so that people could be saved.  The convalescent home was never a popular outreach with the leadership....they concentrated on the campus, because that's where the recruits came from.

As far as you hearing J. Vernon McGee, I bet you didn't go hear him on a Sunday morning, or during a prayer meeting!  Also, if you made a habit of hearing him, you would have been hammered.  I promise.  George, however, didn't want to be seen as the type of person who stood against J. Vernon Mcgee.  He even claimed to have been discipled by him at one time or another.

One thing to keep in mind regarding the Assemblies is that we are talking about a "leavened loaf," so to speak.  The loaf is good, but the leaven is increasingly bad over time, even though it starts out small.   No one here is against the loaf, just the leaven.

Brent

[summer007]

Yeah, someone gave me that 'Happiness' book I never read it ..it seemed weird ,so I just skimmed through it...I suspect that Betty was wearing the pants and calling the shots...she had alot to hang over GG...The woman essentially have alot more power then they know...take Rachel and Judy...its a wonder this did'nt happen sooner...

[outdeep]

Handbook to Happiness.  I remember a job fellowship where the group did a skit raising some rather legetimate issues of being a Christian on the job.  The solution was unveiled - the wheel and line diagram.  I thought the book was cheesy when I read it, but everyone kept insisting it changed their life.

I take a little different perspective on the leash.  I think Brent is correct with the teachings getting more "out there" as time went on.  One reason is the same reason the show "CSI", which started as a good detective show, has to go to wilder and stranger plots - to keep an audience.  But secondly (and more importantly) the longer George's audience enabled him, the more unaccountable he felt and the more liberties he took.

However, I think the leash - the ability to leave - was much tighter in the early, Hillcrest park days.  The group was so small, you couldn't leave unnoticed and every one who did leave could be easily explained away as "not wanting what the Lord wanted".

When Steve left, so many escaped, it was hard to explain them all away.  People where critisizing the work so much with the true accusation of believing, "people who left the Assembly left the light" the Work simply stopped saying it and denied that they ever said it.

There was even one family who left in late '80s/early '90s and even kept in good graces with the Assembly (of course, they agreed to the "no talk/no critisize" rules).  On the other hand, this is the ONLY family I could think of where that was the case.

However, it did take George's fall before people could come in and out without critisizm.

As for Billy Graham and JV McGee:  George tended to deal with other Christian leaders by demeaning them.  Look how he constantly put down Chuck Swindoll in mocking his "Improving your serve" and talking about the worldly folks who went to E.V. Free.  However, Dr. Graham and Dr. McGee was so well thought of even by folks in the Assembly, it would have been preposterous to try and tear them down directly.

So what damage could it do allowing folks to attand a Graham Crusade once on an off night or see a Preacher who was getting up there in age?  However, you should remember that during the Graham crusade, Steve Irons made an annoucement that "Even though some of you are going to the Crusade, we don't necessarily agree with everything they do."

Just to keep that nagging doubt in everyone's mind.

[outdeep]

Also, I heard from the Christmas Project leader that the Protestant chaplain at Juvenile Hall knows about some of the problems with the Geftakys groups, and with Fullerton and Placentia.  I don’t know how much he knows, because I was not able to talk with him personally.

mithrandir:
The Protestant chaplain Steve Lowe knows the Assembly.  Believe me, he knows.

He was the chaplin way back when I was involved in the juvenile ministry.  He had to fight his own battles with the group.  

When Mark Wheel started the Juvenile ministry and recruted the early workers, it was intened to, well, share the gospel with young inmates and Mark did it in a good, sincere way.

Unfortunately, the juvenile ministry began to be successful.  As a result, Betty decided that it needed "guidance".  That's when Beth Alex was set in charge, I was brought in as puppet liazion for the guys (a role in which I utterly failed) and Mark Wheel got pushed out the back door.

During the time of control, where it was demanded we share "identification with Christ - al la wheel and line" in every lesson, several in the Assembly seemed to see the Juveniles as belonging to us.  As is generally done, the juvenile ministry was seen as the Assembly outreach (notwithstanding other churches sent workers in as well) and Steve Lowe was simply a brother in Christ (read: obsticle that needed to be worked around).

Steve Lowe had to work hard to make it clear that HE was the chaplin in charge and we were simply one of many volunteers who he allowed in to minister.

Yes, Steve is familiar with the Assembly.  I think he was impressed with the seriousness and consistancy that was with those who came in to minister.  However, the groups arrogance was lost on him.

[Mark Kisla]

GG tried to show his connection with Billy Graham by boasting that GG and BG were present at Billy G's opening crusade in the LA area. But then he'd downplay Billy G's ministry by saying that he(Billy G) preached the gospel and people got saved, but then those saved people did not get established in a 'testimony of light and life'. They wandered and ending up falling away from the Lord.

Lord bless,
Marcia

George told me about a old woman whose prayers were responsible for the success of the Billy Graham Crusades and that this same women would meet with George and pray for his ministry.
He also told me he was a friend to the pilot that was martyred along with Jim Elliot.
Seems like George was always out to impress somebody.

[Oscar]

GG tried to show his connection with Billy Graham by boasting that GG and BG were present at Billy G's opening crusade in the LA area. But then he'd downplay Billy G's ministry by saying that he(Billy G) preached the gospel and people got saved, but then those saved people did not get established in a 'testimony of light and life'. They wandered and ending up falling away from the Lord.

Lord bless,
Marcia

George told me about a old woman whose prayers were responsible for the success of the Billy Graham Crusades and that this same women would meet with George and pray for his ministry.
He also told me he was a friend to the pilot that was martyred along with Jim Elliot.
Seems like George was always out to impress somebody.

George and Betty's time at Biola did overlap with some of the people mentioned in "Through Gates of Splendor" by Elizabeth Elliot.
At least one of the brothers that was killed was from a PB background.  Roger ...?

So, it is quite plausible that GG knew Nate Saint, the pilot.

Once GG told me that he used to go to Bible studies at Dawson Trotman's house in South Pasadena.  (Trotman founded the Navigators).  He boasted that Trotman tried to get him to move into a brother's house but that he had better things to do.  

Years later I was reading the Biography of Trotman..."Daws" by Betty Carlson.  I read this.

"On trips to San Diego, Dawson and the Minute Men often contacted and gave a hand to helen Rittinhouse, a former Biola classmate who opened her home to servicemen for weekly Bible studies.  Helen called her work the Service Men's Bible Club and adapted her studies from those of Milo Jamison's University Bible Club.  (That was on the UCLA campus in the 30's. Milo Jamison was the founder and pastor of the University Bible Church nearby.)  They followed a three point pattern: 1) What does the Bible say? 2) What does the Bible mean? 3) What am I going to do about it?"

In 1976-77, when I discovered this, GG was making one of his rare visits to the San Fernando Valley.  We were in my study and I opened the book and handed it to him.  

His response was "I had no idea".  Immediately a "red light" went off in my mind.  I knew he was trying to say that he had no idea about this and that he had invented Chapter Summary independently.  But...that's the problem with being a liar...you need to remember everything you have ever said so that you won't get caught.

I knew he was really saying "I had no idea that I would get caught."

After all, Steve Irons and I had confronted him about some lies we had heard him tell back in 1970...yet we were still following him.

As I have said many times, the roots of cult involvement are emotional, not intellectual.  It took me 13 more years to make the break.  

Duh.

Thomas Maddux
Undercomer First Class

[mithrandir]

The Protestant chaplain Steve Lowe knows the Assembly.  Believe me, he knows.

He was the chaplin way back when I was involved in the juvenile ministry.  He had to fight his own battles with the group.  

When Mark Wheel started the Juvenile ministry and recruted the early workers, it was intened to, well, share the gospel with young inmates and Mark did it in a good, sincere way.

Unfortunately, the juvenile ministry began to be successful.  As a result, Betty decided that it needed "guidance".  That's when Beth Alex was set in charge, I was brought in as puppet liazion for the guys (a role in which I utterly failed) and Mark Wheel got pushed out the back door.

Your story about Mark Wheel reminds me of times where I too was "pushed out the back door", and was left scratching my head, wondering what I had done wrong.  Those were painful times because I thought the leading brethren were actually God's mouthpiece, and that their dealings with me were an expression of God's displeasure with me.  How liberating to see what kind of men these really were and to find out that the whole thing was one big scam after all...

mithrandir

[Recovering Saint]

I knew a sister in the Midwest who had a very great sense of humour. She was exhorted so much to be serious it is too bad I think she listened to the brothers and stopped. She was really serious for the Lord but people are only looking at the external stuff and they of course are the authority. I had another brother tell me not to cross my feet in meetings. I stopped. I know people in Ottawa who told new people not to laugh at my jokes because they didn't like them. Sick eh you have to instruct people on every little thing. I had a brother exhort me on how to eat healthy foods while we both were eating at a fast food restaurant. We learned how to be critical of everyone else but  leave the "precious" Assembly alone.

[Kimberley Tobin]

The assembly annihilated our personalities, for sure!  You didn't last if you were keen on keeping your personality.

My husband and I laughed about it after we left.  Has anyone seen, "The Stepford Wives"?  My husband and I woke up after we left realizing that is especially how most wives were.  btw - I hear they are making a remake of that movie, for you youngsters.  If they do, see it, you will be astounded how close the similarities are.

[mithrandir]

I had a dream last night in which I found myself in a meeting led by Dan Notti...after the collapse.  I don't forget what he was preaching about, but I remember standing up while he was talking and refuting everything he said.  I made him look like a total chump.  But then I woke up; it was only a dream...

But one thing I wonder.  I still lack a sense of closure over all this, and there are times when I keenly feel that lack.  I still wait for people to be brought to justice.  Perhaps if Fullerton and Placentia disbanded utterly, I'd get the closure I'm looking for.  Does anyone else struggle with this?

Also, I updated the "Update about the Geftakys Assemblies" on the Rick Ross site.  Fullerton is no longer listed as a safe group.  It is now listed as unsafe, based on what we know about Samuel's visit there and the fact that they are now starting to target college students again.  It may be time for another warning to go out...

Clarence Thompson