Why Leaders Are Responsible

[M2]

...

The leaders who stayed and are still perpetuating the ministry are most accountable. They have heard and read about George being excommunicated, however, they still welcome him with open arms. Most of those sheep in SF and Sacramento don't know about the excommunication letter. It is men like Scott Testa and Dan Mattsson-Boze who have the most to be worried about. They have led the sheep even further astray. Men like Jim McAllister who really are holding the sheep hostage. The people still involved with each assembly that know the truth and still stay. They are accountable for their actions as well as the leaders.

Heide

AND some existing assemblies continue to receive prayer requests and pray at their ENOPs for the 'work' in some of the above mentioned localities.

Lack of spiritual discernment ? OR blind?  

Marcia

[Tony]

MM>"AND some existing assemblies continue to receive prayer requests and pray at their ENOPs for the 'work' in some of the above mentioned localities."

*The Work*   produced such incredible fruit!   While it was ripping apart families, degrading women and abusing the weak it was praising the wisdom of it's vision!

MM>Lack of spiritual discernment ? OR blind?

Hmmm, Maybe an abundance of spiritual pride.   Totally confused???  I don't know nor do I understand why a God fearing person would continue in anything resembling "the work!"   As for the blindness, maybe they feel that now they see and can work with the *good*parts...but I'd liken that to a totally blind man putting on a pair of glasses.

-Tony

[James]

AND some existing assemblies continue to receive prayer requests and pray at their ENOPs for the 'work' in some of the above mentioned localities.

Lack of spiritual discernment ? OR blind?  

Marcia

The nerve of these ones. To actually pray! If that isn't blindness what is?

[sfortescue]

It isn't always wrong to criticize a prayer.

Jesus criticized this prayer:

Luke 18:11-12
The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.  I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Jesus thought this prayer was much better:

Luke 18:13
And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.

[M2]

AND some existing assemblies continue to receive prayer requests and pray at their ENOPs for the 'work' in some of the above mentioned localities.

Lack of spiritual discernment? OR blind?  

Marcia

The nerve of these ones. To actually pray! If that isn't blindness what is?

I detect sarcasm James! On that basis (ie you were being sarcastic) I point out the fact that I said they were praying for the 'work'.  I do believe that they should pray, but to pray for repentance would be more like it.
If you were not being sarcastic, please forgive me for mis-interpreting your comment.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[vernecarty]

My! This thread has certainly come alive the last few weeks! Great posts! We do have a great responsibility not to repeat the silence that allowed Geftakys to weave his sticky web of deception. I think Sebastian Andrew, Heidi and Mark Campbell have the exact right idea...

p.s Marcia, is that really you...??!! I hardly recognize you!

I'm not really sure where to start on this but....

Think of the GG ministry as a business. You have GG who is evil and corrupt. He can't hire men who will stand up to him. He hires the youthful, the young and in school. The ones he can manipulate. In the business world a corrupt boss cannot hire honest men, his business will never last. We all know that fruit doesn't fall far from the tree, look at DG and TG. The elders and leading brothers will all have characteristics that can be used. And yes, this was a business for GG. A business to make money.

The leaders who stayed and are still perpetuating the ministry are most accountable. They have heard and read about George being excommunicated, however, they still welcome him with open arms. Most of those sheep in SF and Sacramento don't know about the excommunication letter. It is men like Scott Testa and Dan Mattsson-Boze who have the most to be worried about. They have led the sheep even further astray. Men like Jim McAllister who really are holding the sheep hostage. The people still involved with each assembly that know the truth and still stay. They are accountable for their actions as well as the leaders.

Heide

I think Heidi's comments are remarkably insightful. I took a bit of heat on the other BB for asserting that anyone who served and remained with the false prophet George Geftakys for any length of time was by definition compropmised. I  believe the reality of this is what so many former leaders have difficulty coming to grips with, i.e. that they are damaged goods...those of you in locales that Heidi have mentioned need to take a stand for righteousness...whatever form that takes...
Verne
ps. the mutterings of brother #2 are as mal-odorous as ever...whew!! Let the sublime and fragrant breezes continue to blow...  

[Heide]

This must be reminder week for me!

Why are the leaders responsible? Why are the shepherds responsible? Why are the pastors responsible for what they say? Why is it so important that are shepherds be above reproach? What's that verse? "Blameless...." Can anyone here say the Geftakys family are blameless? Or that Wes Cohen, Scott Testa, Dan Mattson-Boze, Jim McAllister or any leading brother still involved with an assembly is above reproach? All of these men have put George in front of God. I don't care if it was last month or last year. Anyone who stands on assembly principles is false.

You cannot take an assembly group, kick GG out and expect to suddenly follow God. Your basic principles/doctrine are false. There is a stench of evil in your group. That evil is the darkness in your hearts that you once followed and compromised yourselves to darkness. Until you disband you won't be free. It has taken me three years to work thru the dysfunction from the assembly and I'm not through. This evil comes thru my very speech, my heart and soul.

You leaders that think you are doing something great... PRIDE comes before the fall. You are still arrogant and thinking God is working thru you but you are the cracked crystal. Step down. Let those people go. Find a healthy church. Pay attention to Psalm 23. He will lead you to fresh water and lush grass so that you can rest. Still waters.

Everything about the assembly is false. And George indeed was a false prophet. Don't be suckered into thinking you're ok. Stand down, let the people ask questions and think for themselves.

Heide

P.S. Hi Verne!

[Heide]

I think about this question alot, "Who paid the price of the sheep?" It is an easy one, of course Christ.  But the flip side is who betrayed the sheep? That one isn't so easy. It is clear but it hurts my heart to see it.

GG was clearly the head of the church but everything that filtered down to each assembly came via leading brothers. The LB's ensured that each assembly act accordingly. They made sure there was enough money in the box, people acted accordingly and mostly everything was running smoothly. They were the enforcers. They encouraged us to rat on each other and were obviously there to hear when we had to rat. They were there to enforce the reward program if you sold your sister or brother out. They allowed us to betray one another and then they betrayed us.

Sure, they prayed with you and listened to your deepest confession but that was not held privately. Your confession was then spread thru the assembly, quietly of course. In the text of how we need to pray for this sister or how this brother has a weakness in this area. If you made friends with certain LB's and there wives you heard alot more. There was nothing private.

The very man that you looked up to and called your friend, that  LB was giving your information out, betraying you at every corner and every opportunity. Yet, you still call him friend and are still willing to follow him. If he can betray your very confidence what makes you think he can lead you now?

In real terms, the shepherd protects the flock from outside influence. He is the one who leads you away from anything dangerous, who puts his life on the line when there is a predator around. In contrast we see in the Assembly where the shepherds/LB have actually led the sheep right into the wolves presence. If you think this shepherd did this last week or last month and certainly he won't do it again! Think again and ask yourself a question, "Why wouldn't he do it again?" Has he changed that much. Those of you who have children know that once a child gets away with something they keep doing it. George may be gone from your gathering but there are other wolves out there. It is just a matter of time before you get sold out again.

Heide

[jackhutchinson]

This post is for those who are still meeting in Goleta and San Francisco.

We all know that George is paranoid.  For example, he uses cash because he doesn’t want the government (or us) to track his spending habits.  He only let TRUSTED people handle his tapes (and refused to make them available to the public) because he was afraid that someone might use them against him.  George has been very concerned about maintaining his reputation before the ‘saints’ because he knew that without our trust he would lose his power.

Then, in December of 2002, when it was openly acknowledged that David had in fact beat his wife and daughter, George was asked to come to SLO to ‘make things right’.  Think about this.  For the first time George had to PUBLICLY face potentially damaging questions.  Those who showed up who had been known to PUBLICLY ask the tough questions were locked out of the meeting by the leaders.  He was not taking any chances.  He had to have men with him whom he could TRUST to defend him.  By default the SLO leaders had to be there, since this ‘repentance’ meeting took place in SLO (and, of course, his son Tim was there too).  But, two other leaders were with him in his time of crisis.  And, who was there to protect this paranoid, corrupt manipulator in his darkest hour?  Scott Testa and Wes Cohen.  The fact that George trusted these men speaks volumes about their character.

So ask yourself, if these men were free of George’s evil influence, then why would George trust them in a time of need?  If they were corrupt, then why remain in their assemblies?  Or, if they were just deceived and manipulated for the length of time they were in leadership, then do you really think they are qualified to lead God’s people?

Just something to think about.

Jack

[Arthur]

And, who was there to protect this paranoid, corrupt manipulator in his darkest hour?  Scott Testa and Wes Cohen.  The fact that George trusted these men speaks volumes about their character.

So ask yourself, if these men were free of George’s evil influence, then why would George trust them in a time of need?  If they were corrupt, then why remain in their assemblies?  Or, if they were just deceived and manipulated for the length of time they were in leadership, then do you really think they are qualified to lead God’s people?

Ooo, hey good point. I don't suppose Scott and Wes were there by coincidence.  Haha

[mithrandir]

Jack's post re. Goleta and San Francisco is a good one.  But unfortunately, it will not reach its intended readers if it remains only on this bulletin board.  These things need to be posted in a much more publicly accessible forum if they are to do any good.

And while we're talking, what can be done to make people see the truth about men like Jack Hanson and groups like Placentia?  The grievous thing for me is that I know him and what kind of control freak he is, and I know what kind of gathering Placentia is, and yet I know good friends especially among the young people who are still devoted to that place.

mithrandir

[amycahill]

[quote author=Matt                                                                ( I know that when the saints in San Diego and I talk about the site, we laugh at it. It's one-sided purpose was to expose all wrongdoing. You can make a website from any church and only post their wrongdoings and make it look like the website for the first church of Satan. Think about the Rick Ross website. The assembly was racist because once Betty Geftakys said "black people are so lazy" in front of a black sister. Am i the only one who sees how silly that is?)

I believe Matt is gone now, but I have to point out that, yes, the assembly was in fact racist.  I cannot prove my point without telling stories that are not mine to tell, but I know this is true.

[amycahill]

I am re-examining the reformed teaching on free will.  This is something I rejected long ago, (under GG and TG's teaching).   I find that I am totally slothful about picking up books, turning to verses, and using my God-given intellect to examine this doctrine, because I am afraid of what it might mean.

This is sort of off the topic, but I wanted to speak anyway.

I have started to check things out for myself.  For example, the occult.  Harry Potter is accused in some circles of being occult; so is, outlandishly to me, Pokemon.  I picked up a Christian book that said so.  Well, I am tired of Scripture abuse, so I decided to research the matter for myself by researching what people who actually practice the occult have to say.  After all, they're the experts in that subject, right?

Harry Potter:  The only danger I can see is that it has the potential to foster interest in the actual occult.  I think parents should work this issue out with children reading the books.  Otherwise, what is practiced in there is not, in my opinion, true occult magic.  They don't draw symbols, do rituals, light candles, or whatever.  They attack each other with magic wands.  That's make-believe, folks.

Pokemon:  Accused of being occult because of ties to Japanese mysticism.  Lots of things have ties to whatever.  I don't see it as being occult at all.

I was also researching role-playing games and discovered two things.  I found a DIRECT connection to the occult, and also found that fantasy role-playing games have borrowed heavily from actual occult practices for their subject matter.  So, I will stay away from them and encourage others to do so.

I figured out all these things for myself, and didn't trust other's opinions until I had researched them.  I am glad I can do that nowadays.  

But it took awhile to get there.

[amycahill]

Leading brothers who have not repented:  Shame on you! Don't let someone so young one-handedly defend you all. Come here and post! Don't hurt him (matt) by having him carry all your defense on his shoulders.

Love, Laurie.

Cool post, Laurie.  Thank you.

[amycahill]

We created separate sections for the Final Weeks and Personal Accounts with the express purpose of segregating them, or quarantining them, so that people who are not helped by those perspectives don't have to go there.  We have seriously considered deleting the Final Weeks from the website and making those articles and letters available by request only.  Do you think that would help?

Margaret

Please don't.  Segregating them is good, but please don't eliminate them.  I feel telling them is needed and important.  You don't know how long after all this someone will come across the website and need the information under those links.

God bless,
Amy