Why Leaders Are Responsible

[retread]

 

The men to whom this question should be directed are the men in leadership in Fullerton. They were all aware that all receipts went directly to George's house. Wayne Matthews lived in the Midwest and was not a part of the Fullerton leadership. Your query is unfair.
Verne

We want the truth do we not? Wayne has been touted as a man of God over all the others in George's inner circle. He is the one who travelled not only with George but was in such close association that George sent him alone to Africa. Very few got in that close. If anyone, it would be he who is in the know. He is the one we can trust here. The question is simple. Did George steal money from his followers?

Question number 2. Tim fondled sisters. If Tim did this, what are the names of these individuals? Not difficult.

For the administrator of this bb to allow such unsubstantiated accusations to be publically displayed is a disgrace. Brent, I am really questioning your integrity here.

I think that it would be fair to say that Tim was no saint.  Perhaps you could ask Tim about question number 2.  He might tell you the truth, or he might lie, or he might just say that it is none of your business, but it is still a fair question to ask him.  He asked others about the intimate sordid details of their lives with such direct questions, so wouldn't he be understanding if you did the same?  Judy Geftakys tells us a little bit about Tim at http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Judy1.html:

George often told me that the first time he met me he had determined I should marry one of his sons. Tim and I were the same age, but I was turned off by Tim’s many relationships with girls in fellowship. One was a room mate of mine and would later be the Maid of Honor at my wedding. I knew her well, and as girls do, we talked.  Tim would never acknowledge her openly but they would go out together late at night. She claimed they were intimate. When Tim began having girlfriends in the open while seeing her on the side, she was so hurt that she never got over it as long as I knew her. When she finally left the ministry, George told me she had only been in fellowship to “trap” a husband. This remains clear as one of my earliest realizations that George didn’t see some very obvious problems in his own family. I never suspected that he was just like Eli, who didn’t restrain his own sons. [We have two other signed statements by different people who have similar claims about Timothy Geftakys, some of which are more recent.]

I think that the "girlfriends" situation may have been before what Tim will admit to as his "experimental years", and I assume that the "more recent" signed statements that Judy is referring to are after this "experimental" period (but I am not sure).  Has anyone asked Tim recently about his side of the story?

[d3z]

Ask yourself,  "How is it that a large, 10,000 sq. ft house is built in a lovely city in Mexico, paid for by the "work."  (I paid for a large chunk of this house.)  It had a nice library and study for George.  How is it that this is now owned by a person,  Marta Velasco, and that she didn't have to pay for it?

Not that this excuses how things were done: but as I understand it, Marta owns the house simply because in Mexico, only citizens can own property, at least on a private level.

I would guess that a legit church would probably create a Mexican organization that would own the property.

Isn't "the work" basically continuing in Mexico?

[vernecarty]

The trips Wane made alone to Africa were not under the auspices of George Geftakys.

Right.

Supplies provided by School of Medicine where Wayne works. Trip planned and executed by Wayne and other medical personnel with similar desire. George had nothing to do with it(except to take the credit). Ask the folk in Otukpo.  
Verne "Cobra" Carty

[editor]

Ask yourself,  "How is it that a large, 10,000 sq. ft house is built in a lovely city in Mexico, paid for by the "work."  (I paid for a large chunk of this house.)  It had a nice library and study for George.  How is it that this is now owned by a person,  Marta Velasco, and that she didn't have to pay for it?

Not that this excuses how things were done: but as I understand it, Marta owns the house simply because in Mexico, only citizens can own property, at least on a private level.

I would guess that a legit church would probably create a Mexican organization that would own the property.

Isn't "the work" basically continuing in Mexico?

No, the work is not continuing in Mexico.  However, it is not clear what shall become of the house.  I would like it to be sold, at a substantial profit, and be reimbursed for my contribution.  I think others who gave money for this would like it as well.

My point below was not clear.  What I was trying to say was that this house was built with private money above and beyond what went into tithes.  George cannot claim that he gave the Lord's Treasury money for the house in Mexico.  On the contrary,  I have clear records of what I tithed, and what i gave to "the work."  George didn't spend "his" money on petty things like retirement homes in cosmopolitan foreign cities.  (Look up Cuernavaca on the web)  No, he let us buy those things, not to mention the brothers who donated their labor and architectural talents, free of charge.

There were miniscule expenses and substantial monies coming in, and no one has any idea where things went.

However, we do know that George lied, plagiarized, and had a habit of adultery.  Of course, his character really isn't the issue here.  The real issue is how un-christlike this BB is.......

Brent

I don't know why I did this at the time, but I had a seperate bank account called, "The Work of The Lord."  I digress.

[d3z]

No, the work is not continuing in Mexico.  However, it is not clear what shall become of the house.  I would like it to be sold, at a substantial profit, and be reimbursed for my contribution.  I think others who gave money for this would like it as well.

My point below was not clear.  What I was trying to say was that this house was built with private money above and beyond what went into tithes.  George cannot claim that he gave the Lord's Treasury money for the house in Mexico.

I'm glad "the work" isn't continuing there.  Last I had heard, it sounded like things weren't changing much there.  Perhaps somebody should update the existing assemblies page on ga.com.

You should probably be chastized for keeping those records, but since you have done so much other evil, I guess we'll let you go on this.

I'm sure much of the money went in to "projects" and things, but it sure seems like there is a lot missing, just from the offering box.

I am thankful that I never "got around" to contributing any money beyond the offering box.

Dave

[psalm51]

The trips Wane made alone to Africa were not under the auspices of George Geftakys.

Right.

Supplies provided by School of Medicine where Wayne works. Trip planned and executed by Wayne and other medical personnel with similar desire. George had nothing to do with it(except to take the credit). Ask the folk in Otukpo.  
Verne "Cobra" Carty

True. The trips Wayne made with George were at the expense of Wayne's own vacation time, etc.  - some of it unpaid. He did not receive any money for going. There was no financial gain in it at all for Wayne or our family at all, ever. Wayne's priority was the spiritual and medical "gain" of the people he visited. Period.

To suggest that Wayne would know what George did with the money shows me you didn't know George very well.  The few times I heard someone question George about assembly finances they were ridiculed and made to feel like an unbelieving fool in front of all involved. George was an expert in intimidation and this subject, so dear to his heart, was obviously one he wouldn't allow anyone to touch.

In addition, we personally know people on the mission field (under the auspices of the assembly and the work) who were supposed to receive money for their needs from George when he travelled to see them and never received it. Guess who took it?

Bob, please get the facts straight before throwing around innuendo and accusation, especially about my husband. At the very least, email us with honest inquiry. Thank you.
Pat Mathews

[editor]

True. The trips Wayne made with George were at the expense of Wayne's own vacation time, etc.  - some of it unpaid. He did not receive any money for going. There was no financial gain in it at all for Wayne or our family at all, ever. Wayne's priority was the spiritual and medical "gain" of the people he visited. Period.
In addition, we personally know people on the mission field (under the auspices of the assembly and the work) who were supposed to receive money for their needs from George when he travelled to see them and never received it. Guess who took it?
Bob, please get the facts straight before throwing around innuendo and accusation, especially about my husband. Thank you.
Pat Mathews

"Moderate"  "Courteous" speech follows:

Pat, when you signed up to be a worker, you clearly understood that are no guarantees in The Work.  It was your privilege to be involved, and why shouldn't it cost you to do so?  After all,  it cost Jesus everything.  Why shouldn't you and Wayne have had to pay for the privilege of being a footnote in one of a George's grand journeys?  He is an Apostle afterall!

I am leaving the "moderate" part of the post now.

When I went on teams, I always paid more money than others did, I came to find out.  I was slightly disturbed when I learned that the homes who had the privilege of hosting us had to foot the entire bill, food and all.

On the Spokane team, Tim left early and left me in charge.  There was no more money, and people needed gas to get home.  I went to my ATM and withdrew my own cash, and didn't tell anyone about it.  No one knew that Tim left us broke.

I paid for my own plane ticket there, and the Guske's paid for all of our food.  I gave Tim 1500.00 cash for this great opportunity---all 3 weeks worth---and then had to shell out another 600.00 of my own money for the other people's gas, food and lodging on the way home.  I used about 150.00 dollars worth of gasoline during the 3 weeks I was there.  I wonder where all that money went?

I dunno, is it possible that Tim sort of managed the funds in a less than equitable way?  (I know he did with regard to me, but I don't count...I was "rich")

Here's a neat verse that applies:

2 Cor 11:19  You gladly put up with fools since you are so wise!  20  In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the  face .  21  To my shame I admit that we were too weak for that!

We were the fools, who thought we were wise.  (pride)

George, Tim, David and the chief Geftakysservants were the ones who enslaved, took advantage, slapped us, etc.

Please note, many of the leaders didn't do this, and were victims like the rest of us, however, they were still fools, even as I was.  We shouldn't have put up with it, but we did, and we bear the consequences.

I agree with Pat;  "bob," you need to view the facts.  You say you want truth, and there is a truckload of truthful facts all over this thread alone.  It is ludicrous to suggest that there is no proof for the things said here.

Brent

[retread]

In addition, we personally know people on the mission field (under the auspices of the assembly and the work) who were supposed to receive money for their needs from George when he travelled to see them and never received it. Guess who took it?

Some days I feel great anger over what Mr. G has done, and other days I feel great sadness.  After reading this account, I feel great sadness.  This is just so utterly disgusting.

 

Although these things are in the past, and I am rejoicing that God is cleaning His house, I still feel sadness at times.  I guess that it must be possible to experience sadness and still rejoice at the same time.

[brian]

On the Spokane team, Tim left early and left me in charge.  There was no more money, and people needed gas to get home.  I went to my ATM and withdrew my own cash, and didn't tell anyone about it.  No one knew that Tim left us broke.

on one of the teams i participated in (a very positive experience for me), danny edwards was able to give us all some money back (after paying for all the gas and food, apparently). we all went on several very fun and not cheap outings, got thick quality souvenir sweatshirts, and spent plenty on many outreaches, yet there was enough money left over that we all got some back to put in our pockets.    i don't remember exactly how much i got, but it was a decent little chunk that really helped me as i started fall semester. i'm saying this to point out that i believe danny was honest (although also secretive) in his dealings with the team's money. if we could afford all that we did and still have that much money left, then where did all the money go on the team tim was leading??  

i think there was just enough sincerity and honor in the leadership to cover for the immense corruption and dishonesty festering at its pinnacle. again, in my opinion the problem with many (if not most) leaders was not insincerity, but blindness combined with apathy to take decisive action on what they did see. (note: the problem with the rest of them was insincerity, and thats putting it Moderately (TM) sondra and matt, 2003)

brian

[psalm51]

I was always a little amazed how much it cost to send our children on teen teams. It was over $100 a week and the homes they lived in had 3-4 teens living in them at least.  I'm sure it wasn't a picnic having that many people in your home for a month, especially if you weren't used to teenagers, but maybe the extra $400-500 a week helped.  Although, if all of the teens were like my own maybe they needed all that cash for groceries and hot water bills.  

[editor]

I was always a little amazed how much it cost to send our children on teen teams. It was over $100 a week and the homes they lived in had 3-4 teens living in them at least.  I'm sure it wasn't a picnic having that many people in your home for a month, especially if you weren't used to teenagers, but maybe the extra $400-500 a week helped.  Although, if all of the teens were like my own maybe they needed all that cash for groceries and hot water bills.  

The point is that the homes they stayed in paid for the food and were not re-imbursed by the "team."

It cost us plenty more than 100.00 per week to go.  I went on 4 teams.

Brent

[brian]

Tim is innocent in my eyes.  

That is what we are looking for.

OMG talk about taking a statement out of context! couldn't you at least have quoted the entire sentance?? i can see it now - front page headline for the New Torch and Latter Day Testimony: BRENT DECLARES TIM INNOCENT "Although we all know how evil Brent is, even demons know the truth, and tremble. God has shown us this is the same motivating force behind a press release from that nest of lies, The BB, in which Brent officially declared Tim innocent of all charges. Our eyes have been opened to the truth of this statement, the first such statement which the Spirit has given us peace about passing on to you. It is truly a new thing the Lord is doing in our midst. This is not to say you should read the website, or listen to Brent, but you can be sure we will pass along any other pertinent revelations as the Spirit moves us."

i'm curious, "bob", who is the 'we' that are digging, er, looking for such statements?

brian

[vernecarty]

Not quite correct. The trips Wane made alone to Africa were not under the auspices of George Geftakys. The stature of Wayne among the Nigerians does not require the sanction of any person or organiztion to persue  his medical missionary work there. Wayne Matthews is a "Son of the Soil"...
You really ought to be more careful Bob...

Verne "Black Mamba" Carty

When Wayne went did he go as a representative of George and his minstry or did he go independently as Verne suggests?

Of course initially it was with George. Frankly the relationship between Wayne and the brethren in Africa evolved to where the role George played was quite marginal. They now view Wayne and his well-established ministry quite separately from George Geftakys. Wayne has also been specially honored by the people he has served there. Make no mistake about it; he is an independent force for the gospel in West Africa. For all intents and purposes, those trips became fairly independent. As a matter of fact, we are both praying about returning to Africa for further medical and humanitarian missionary labors. Pray for open doors my friend...
Verne

[brian]

You curious thing "brian". You're on to me, I mean we.

i am endlessly curious, aren't i? i apologize for the inference. i don't believe you are a part of any organized conspiracy. i do believe you are representative of a group of people who sometimes refuse to be convinced, even after they have pushed their fingers into the wounds.

you forgot to question my integrity, since i am also an admin on this bb. but thats understandable, because brent is much more curious and proactive than you or i or most of the former leaders of the assembly will likely ever be.

brian

[psalm51]

True. The trips Wayne made with George were at the expense of Wayne's own vacation time, etc.  - some of it unpaid. He did not receive any money for going. There was no financial gain in it at all for Wayne or our family at all, ever.

Just to be clear, Wayne never received any money from the "work" for his travels to Africa and Europe. He paid his own way to Africa and the subsequent expenses. I stand corrected. My appologies to the Matthews family.

That's not what I said. To further clarify: Wayne's travel expenses were paid for by "the work", but he never received any other compensation and often was gone longer than he had vacation for and then lost pay from work. That's what I meant.  I hope this clears up any confusion. Apology accepted.

I'm curious. Why are you so interested in Wayne? What about Roger G.? Jim? Mike Z.? Rod? Dan? Mark? David? Les Roberts (who travelled with George in Europe almost every year)?

In fact I'm so curious, I am wondering what your real name is and what assembly you are or were in. Can you answer that? If not, why not?
Pat Mathews