Why Leaders Are Responsible

[Scott McCumber]

Tim on the other hand, though people may dislike him, is not as clear cut in my mind. Things pertaining to Tim do not appear to be factual but emotional. I can stand corrected, but that is how it appears to me.

"bob", Perhaps you missed the part on ga.com where it was clearly shown that Tim knew his brother was beating his sister-in-law and niece.

Well, hey, that's not such a bad thing right? Had to protect the work, right? There are worse things than keeping your mouth shut, right?

Guess when Rachel wrote that her emotions got so carried away she just made it up, huh?! Not factual at all.

Let's pretend for a minute that's all Tim did: Not such a bad guy. Certainly qualified to continue to lead God's people.

After all, what's a shepherd for if not to turn his back on the sheep?

Scott McCumber

[psalm51]

I'm curious. Why are you so interested in Wayne? What about Roger G.? Jim? Mike Z.? Rod? Dan? Mark? David? Les Roberts (who travelled with George in Europe almost every year)?

I am not interested in Wayne at all. I never for one moment thought Wayne did something wrong.  As for those other guys they have had people calling them to account on this bb. If there is something you know about them in addition please let us know. Wayne spent a lot of time with Roger.

You mentioned Wayne in 2-3 of your posts. In fact, you brought it up. You seemed interested. Now you say aren't. I don't get it. Does anyone get this?
PM
p.s. Yes, "Wayne spent a lot of time with Roger". What is your point?

[Joe Sperling]

Bob---

We're just curious, you said in a post below:
"If there is something you know about them in addition please let "us" know". Yet it is just you posting. Is there a reason for posting in the plural? I was just curious is all.  No you're not.  Yes I am. No you're not. Yes I am, don't argue with me. I will if I feel like it.
Look, I'm asking Bob the question, not you. I don't care who you're asking--it's a dumb question. No it isn't. Yes it is. It's a dumb question. What do you think Bob? Yeah, what do you think Bob?

-Joe
-Joe

[Scott McCumber]

"bob",

You backpedal faster than Sylvester turning a corner on Spike the dog!

You're a had cad, my anonymous friend!

Scott McCumber

[psalm51]

The question still stands: does Wayne think George is a thief?

Yes, there is evidence to support that supposition, as I stated in a previous post. In addition, as an example:  in recent years on journeys to Africa, George flew first class, while Roger and Wayne did not.  We were told George needed rest. I'm sure he got it. George loved expensive things (don't we all?!) and he had them. I ironed some pricey shirts and jackets when he stayed with us. He always bought lots and lots of books wherever he went. I know because I organized his library. I guess I should have looked in the table legs while I was there.  
Pat
p.s. any other questions, just email us.

[BeckyW]

Just a couple of observations re: leader's responsibility and finances.

I spent quite a few minutes reading through this thread just now.  
There is plenty of responsibility to go around.

We who put money in the boxes are responsible for not holding leaders accountable for where the money went.  

Leaders are responsible for not giving an account and for twisting verses out of context to explain why they didn't. II KIngs 22:7 for instance.
Another example is I Cor. 16:1-2, misused here when Geo. came through on an off-pay week.  We were exhorted the next week that even if you get paid every other week, it is scriptural to divide it up and give weekly lest the box be too empty the next time the Lord's servant comes through.  Totally out of context.

Then there was the "don't let your right hand know what your left hand is doing" regarding giving to God's work.  Now that we've been out and thinking again for awhile, this seems esp. ludicrous. It is about giving alms to the poor.

Then there was the attitude that it's carnal to keep account in God's house and organizations like the EFCA are for those poor people who don't fear the Lord like we do.

My point here is, we are all responsible before the Lord for how we handle what He has entrusted to us.  And to repent when what we do turns out to be wrong.

We were also on a team where we rec'd some money back at the end.  We totally trusted the man heading up the team, had no reason not to and still would today, but we weren't privy to how the money was handled or what went on behind the scenes.

And I believe we all gave as unto the Lord, trusting Him to use it as He saw fit.  Hence the greater responsibility of esp. the Fullerton leaders
who at least put forth the idea that there was accountability there. "Faithful men..." ? (see II Kings ref. above)

Becky

[editor]

I don't know about the last few years, but George's trips were financed almost 100% by Kevin Healy up until the time he left.

Kevin called them "junkets."   George's travel expenses were not 100% from the tithes, but from personal donations from people like Kevin.

I financed 2 of Tim's European trips.

In spite of this, do the math.  If you don't like math, I have already done it for you.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/assembly/assembly15.html
Brent

[M2]

This is the last post:

Joe, thank-you. You are the only one who seems to understand us, me, we, them??!!..**%%

Must be the 'collect'ive. (Star Trek)

Marcia

[M2]

As far as GG being a thief, he definitely knew about his son David and continued to support him as a full time worker from 'work' money. DG should never have been a LB, a worker, nor a full-time worker. He only achieved this status because he was a Geftakys.

Marcia

[M2]

I don't know about the last few years, but George's trips were financed almost 100% by Kevin Healy up until the time he left.

Kevin called them "junkets."   George's travel expenses were not 100% from the tithes, but from personal donations from people like Kevin.

I financed 2 of Tim's European trips.

In spite of this, do the math.  If you don't like math, I have already done it for you.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/assembly/assembly15.html
Brent

I find this so amazing. I always thought that the money-in-the-box-at-the-back-of-the-room was used to finance GGs trips. Where did all that money go?

After you left Brent, Tim found someone else to finance his European trips. What a privilege!

Marcia

[Mark Kisla]

People think that only the money given as tithes and offerings was used to line George's wicked pockets. The fact is that these people fleeced many a well-off saint and robbed quite a few assembly kids of their inheritance. I could tell yout stories about a widow or two...Most peole do not understand that in all likelihood the greatest depth of the wickedness of this man and his enablers remains undisclosed...
Verne

While in the assembly, I was hospitalized for a month following an accident. Tim and married couple came to visit. As soon as Tim & I were alone he asked me if I was going to sue. I told him I had no plans to sue anyone, he probed into the accidents possibilities of financial gain.
I always thought that was an odd conversation. Looking back he never once asked if my families financial needs were being met.
I never realized until now what a bunch of mooches the Geftakys family is.

[golden]

What do you all think when the saints are accusing one another of things? If you all have issues with individuals why don't you go talk to them...why are you posting here say and accusing individuals...
....do you want to take the place of the devil who is the accuser of the brethren?

PS.. has any one heard of frequent flyer miles? since GG did many journeys he could upgrade for free ...so who cares if he flew first class. ....getting pretty petty around here

[mithrandir]

People think that only the money given as tithes and offerings was used to line George's wicked pockets. The fact is that these people fleeced many a well-off saint and robbed quite a few assembly kids of their inheritance. I could tell yout stories about a widow or two...Most peole do not understand that in all likelihood the greatest depth of the wickedness of this man and his enablers remains undisclosed...
Verne

While in the assembly, I was hospitalized for a month following an accident. Tim and married couple came to visit. As soon as Tim & I were alone he asked me if I was going to sue. I told him I had no plans to sue anyone, then he asked me if there was any kind of insurance settlement in the process. I told no.
I always thought that was an odd conversation. Looking back he never once asked if my financial needs were being met.
I never realized until now what a bunch of mooches the Geftakys family is.

It is lately becoming more and more difficult for me to think about the Fullerton leaders at all.  This is because when I think of them, I remember how I used to be in awe of them, how I used to let them tell me what I could and could not do, how I bore with their constant "putting me in my place" - and then I think of what kind of wretched, contemptible men many of them turned out to be.  They make me mad.  Truly in the case of some of these men, the following applies: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites, because you devour widows' houses, and for a pretense you make long prayers; therefore you will receive greater damnation...Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.  You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!  Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence...You serpents, you brood of vipers, how shall you escape the damnation of hell?"

The fact is, many of them still haven't really, fully, completely repented.  But I've decided that I'm not going to spend my time being preoccupied with them.  As one character in a Western said, "I'm mighty particular about what
I look at!"

mithrandir

[mithrandir]

Oh...and one thing for golden, whoever you are.  If you'll take off your rainbow-colored sunglasses, you'll find many people who were abused by the leaders in Fullerton and elsewhere who tried to settle things by private talks with the leaders.  But the leaders were so arrogant, so bewitched, so hard-headed that they would not listen.

mithrandir

[vernecarty]

What do you all think when the saints are accusing one another of things? If you all have issues with individuals why don't you go talk to them...why are you posting here say and accusing individuals...
....do you want to take the place of the devil who is the accuser of the brethren?

PS.. has any one heard of frequent flyer miles? since GG did many journeys he could upgrade for free ...so who cares if he flew first class. ....getting pretty petty around here

I think it safe to say that those posting about their assembly experience fall into two broad general categories. The ones who believed it to be a wicked system that abused and defrauded gullible believers, and those who think the only problem was George Geftakys and his profligate sons and shrewish wife. (There is a bit of fringe thinking that does not even acknowledge he had a problem; after-all, we're all sinners...).  The problem Golden is that many  people  acutally lived a nightmare horror in the assemblies; for others who perhaps did not have it so bad (like me) or had no experience with the assemblies at all, the strong expressions of outrage and recriminations can appear to be nothing more than a general anger-fest. If you knew what happened though, you would be more sympathetic.
Verne