Why Leaders Are Responsible

[delila]

Yes Delila, we swallowed the soup we were fed one spoonfull at a time until we really began to acquire a taste for it and spoon it out to others ourselves.

And those CEOs that suddenly disappeares when all the seams began to show on the shoddy construction - well...

The proud and lovely that remain under the guise of 'humility' and 'change' have become little Georges and Bettys (without GGs major sin issue).  George faithfully reproduced himself in these leaders that they have a very difficult time breaking free from him.  These leaders each had their 'training day' and came out adding 2 + 2 = 'preserve the testimony'.  Get the picture.

Yes, they are trying to forget, because it is too painful to remember.  But what's needed is repentance.  Becky can say, 'I was wrong in Omaha for not saying, loudly, "that is nuts that ..."', but "I was wrong" is not in the vocabulary of unrepentant leaders/assemblyites, and therein lies the difference.

Lord bless,
Marcia

you're not gonna see repentace because repentance requires one to have a conscience
and they're 'dead to that' sister.
delila

[summer007]

I went back for one Sem in I think '89 it was a Sunday and I could'nt wait to get out of there...I left after the A.M. Meet. GG looked right at me from the Podium as he quoted the verse "Harlots and Publicans will enter the Kingdom before ?? " that verse..He had a big smile on his face all I could think of I was so glad I was free to leave and these people are in here on a hot summer day in suits and ties, with kids on mats,etc...We are all Responsible no one had Guns to our Heads ...we were all free to leave at anytime ...although some were locked into the group mentally, financially, or spiritually...in Bondage. I really think alot of the LB's knew if they honestly addressed GG they'd be thrown out...And they'd have to give-up their Power over others...Going outside  of the Loop...would be too Humiliating  until they could'nt take anymorre and finally some of them left...In REAlity alot of them dont care will never make a comment ...the update did show me that Mark M probibly did try with all he had to confront GG ..GG got away with what he did cause he Could no-one could stop him...Betty went along. probibly for the Money...I mean what wife would have her Husbands Mistress move in with them as an Assistant how warped is that??? Would'nt that be Leading you into Temptation??? And GG's a Great Grandfather. Its all so Strange!!!!

[delila]

yeah, we'd all put our conscience's on mute
I wonder how many ran straight for the nearest walmart and got a tv as soon as the assembly folded
d

[M2]

...We are all Responsible no one had Guns to our Heads ...we were all free to leave at anytime ...although some were locked into the group mentally, financially, or spiritually...in Bondage. I really think alot of the LB's knew if they honestly addressed GG they'd be thrown out...And they'd have to give-up their Power over others...Going outside  of the Loop...would be too Humiliating  until they could'nt take anymorre and finally some of them left...In REAlity alot of them dont care will never make a comment ...

We've discussed a number of important aspects ie conscience, deception, repentance etc.  One other aspect is that IMO the leaders/workers are indeed responsible for enabling George.  George could not have done it without his servants, whom he trained to deny conscience and to serve him and preserve the testimony at all costs.

sincerity is not= truth
knowledge is not= spirituality

Lord bless,
Marcia

PS.  Actually, I am happy to be free from the Geftakys system.  The Baptist church that I attend is great and I am making some new friends.  BTW Will Jones, are you out there?  Remember KBC, I saw you in a video today at the Wards' 20th anniversary celebration.
MM

[delila]

Dear Marcia,
Just finished another rewrite.  It goes off in the mail tomorrow.  One of the things I believe more and more as time goes on is that the meetings were an engineered crossroads, a dead stop intersection at which we ritualistically peeled off the self-life, skin and all and set our internal clocks to think and smile and talk the same.  People have written on this board how issues were dealt with in the ministry, personal issues, addressed with passages pulled out of context to suit the general bully-mongering of the day.  But it goes deeper than that.  It makes me bleed to think about it sometimes, how I was constantly guilty of having any thought or care for myself, my health, my future.  And I wonder, in an atmosphere like that whether anyone was out from under the 'influence' enough to be fully responsible.  I know I wasn't.  I was fully dependant.  I was a wretch and I knew that's all I was.  And so, there are moments like this one, when I pity all except George himself (who sat on the throne of course, ruling with Christ).
love ya
d

[summer007]

Just a Thought on this Topic I think The Assembly fed Ego's of Superiority, Eliteism, and the General feeling that you were Gods special Pet.....the weaker of the group were just grateful to be around such Greatness!!!....Not too different from Pharisee's as I think has been covered... Their is a certain Arrogance within the Jewish Community when it comes to the things of God after-all they are the Holy Root and we as Christian's(of the Gentiles) have merely been Grafted in... They dont go seeking converts and actually try and dissuede people from joining on a whim that is joining Synagouge and /or Temple...Mainly to check the serious of the individual it is a rather Exclusive Community one I find very intrieging....

[delila]

I have a hard time believing Jews could be more elitist or arrogant than our lovely assembly minded group.
I was thinking today of a video I saw years ago in a Feminist class I took at the U of C.  Actual footage: Men are praying at the Weeping Wall and then a group of women approach to pray too.  Much screaming and shouting.  The men pick up stones and hurl these at the women.  A few months prior to seeing this I left the assembly.  I had to run out the room during the stoning to weep in the can.   The paralells were overwhelming.
d

[M2]

Dear Marcia,
Just finished another rewrite.  It goes off in the mail tomorrow.  One of the things I believe more and more as time goes on is that the meetings were an engineered crossroads, a dead stop intersection at which we ritualistically peeled off the self-life, skin and all and set our internal clocks to think and smile and talk the same.  People have written on this board how issues were dealt with in the ministry, personal issues, addressed with passages pulled out of context to suit the general bully-mongering of the day.  But it goes deeper than that.  It makes me bleed to think about it sometimes, how I was constantly guilty of having any thought or care for myself, my health, my future.  And I wonder, in an atmosphere like that whether anyone was out from under the 'influence' enough to be fully responsible.  I know I wasn't.  I was fully dependant.  I was a wretch and I knew that's all I was.  And so, there are moments like this one, when I pity all except George himself (who sat on the throne of course, ruling with Christ).
love ya
d

Dear Delila,

Yeah, it is a pitiful situation isn't it?  We were all under a spell of sorts and could not help ourselves. Eh?  We were totally devoted to the testimony to Jesus.  We sold our souls to the new testament pattern, and were fully focussed on 'this' ministry.  We sacrificed our children and our marriages for the cause.  We gave our money.  WOW!  what a legacy.  As Summer pointed out, our situation was/is not unique.  They are many other abusive churches out there, some were/are even worse than the Geftakys assemblies.  BUT...  that does not justify nor lessen the error of Geftakys.

Delila, we are responsible, and we do need to repent, and we do need to apologize to those we have hurt.

Don't know if you have seen 'Training Day' with Denzel Washington(DW).  Definitely not a movie for kids.  If you have you might recognize the parallels of 'assembly leadership' training.  The young cop (yc) being trained is slowly but surely made to compromise his 'conscience' and becomes vulnerable to DW, until he comes to his senses and finally refuses to compromise his conscience.  yc then goes after DW even if it was to cost him his life.  yc wins the day, and DW loses all.

Most Geftakys leaders did NOT refuse to compromise their conscience in most cases.  There were the odd incident when they begged-to-differ with George, but for the most part they promoted his abusive system.  They had more evidence than we non-leaders had to put 2 and 2 together and come up with the correct answer, but 2 + 2 always= 'preserve the testimony' to a faithful Geftakys servant.  Those leaders who refused to compromise left the system or were pushed out.  I remember one leader was on the chopping block, but he worked hard to keep his position, and he succeeded.

Anyway, it's late.
Lord bless,
Marcia

[delila]

Marcia,
I saw a movie called The Bad Leutenit (sp?) after I left fellowship.  Pure corruption.  Not kids viewing either.  I had a hard time watching it.
Anyway, that we gave our consciences for mere association with what we were told was spiritual is funny, isn't it.  I mean, were we spiritual?  No, constantly told otherwise, but were they?  Ha!  But it's what you call your behaviour, and not your behavior itself that really counts, isn't that what George taught?
d

[summer007]

In case someone is interested I found this site last week ..Its the Standford Prison Experiment I dont have the link now if I find it I will add it on ...It was all Voluntary for research...an even number of prison guards selected at random and  even number of prisoners noone knew who would be a guard or a prisoner it was done by name draw.Well they had to end a 2 week experiment in 6 days due to guards abusing the prisoners and the prisoners having breakdowns or coming close to crcking the ones that did the best as prisoners were the authoratative types....As for the Guards they were really disappointed the experiment had to end they were relishing their Power and did'nt want it too end...Sound Familiar.....

[delila]

having never been enthroned, can't imagine what it's like to be dethroned.  Must be AWFULL!
d

[sfortescue]

Brent came up with something similar a few months ago.

http://www.harvestnet.org/teachings/truthteller.htm

Here is a short exerpt:

Not Valuing Truth Results in Blindness
Blindness is characteristic of organizations and leaders that do not value truthfulness in their relationships.  This is because truth telling has been stifled in a loyalty-based organizations or individuals.  Because there is no honest feedback, they will often be blind to their abusive behavior and honestly wonder why others are reacting.  There will be no one to tell them that it is wrong to shift the blame for difficulties in the relationships to the victims of their abusive behavior.  The value of truth is what keeps a local church or any organization from becoming like a cult.  Honoring the truth-teller is a characteristic of godly relationships.  Dishonoring the truth-teller is a characteristic of cults.  Cultic behavior, which always includes blindness, will result from an overemphasis of loyalty above the truth.  Leaders must understand that their own desire for loyalty may overcome truthfulness in their subordinates.  They must actively cultivate truthfulness along with loyalty in their subordinates.

[M2]

Restricting access to information is a common ploy of many "institutions" such as governments, PR agencies, and cults or religious groups.  The information that is either restricted, hidden or discouraged is anything that would deter a member from believing what the group says is true.

The Assembly had/has recommended reading lists and I have heard Assembly leaders "discourage" various books or authors.

The Assembly discouraged close ties with unsaved family members for fear that a saint would be pulled away from the Assembly.

The Assembly discouraged people from being involved in other religious groups or going to other churches.  Why?  You might see the light of your freedom in Christ and your bondage to a manmade system that does not allow members to decide God's will for themselves.

The Assembly discouraged people from taking certain courses at university or working at certain jobs that had fundamental differences in ideas such as military or political work.

The Assembly discouraged people from being critical of the Assembly by labelling such people as "railers," etc.  However, more than a few workers I had dealings with openly talked about the shortcomings of others and why certain people were not "good brothers" or "good sisters."  Such people were not allowed to go on MTT Teams and were often barred from marriage in the Assembly.  These rumors (supposedly the fact of "living in a fishbowl") helped to show who was good because they conformed and who was bad because they did not follow the dictates of the Assembly.  Leaders had the right to criticize others but not vice versa.  (On a few occasions, I brought up issues in certain people's lives and I was told never to do so again and that I did not have the right to do so anymore.)  From what we have read, the worker's meeting and George himself made a habit of criticizing others that did not match up to the Assembly's supposed light.  However, to criticize the Assembly was a major sin and to leave it is to fall away to something less than God's best, something less that includes shunning.  Sadly, according to MM, this is still practiced in one of the old/new Assembly still exists.  Such a tactic basically says that unless you are with us, you will be against us.  Jesus spoke against this practice when there was a man casting out demons in his name but was not part of Jesus' following.  We can only be for or against Jesus himself, not some manmade system of right and wrong.

To preserve the testimony, the old/new Assembly was guilty of trying to cover up problems or ignore them.  One of the ways they deal with/dealt with problems was to "discourage contact" with former members who realize the truth of Galatians 5:1ff.

To leave a place that has basically ruled your life for years takes a lot of bravery because it means beginning a new life free of bondage.  Bondage can be comfortable because you don't have to think--others will tell you what is right, true, how you should act and what you should believe.  What a sad way to live.  The "light" of the mind in bondage is darkness.  It is also hard to give up old habits that come from deeply engrained beliefs.  It is also difficult for leaders to give up the power and prestige they once had AND it is even more difficult for people who are so accustomed to be lead to suddenly start thinking and acting for themselves.

Basically, leaders should only be held partially responsible for the evils in the old Assembly because those in committed fellowship yielded their wills over to the leadership who were following a system of right and wrong imposed from Fullerton/the worker's meeting.  To admit that and leave the Assembly is to be brave, honest and, at the end of the day, free of bondage.

But leaders are/were still guilty of covering up the sins of the Assembly because of the need to "preserve the testimony."  Leaders are also guilty of hiding financial resources and, above all, fostering an environment that openly teaches that the Assembly is better than all other Christian gatherings.  To teach that the Assembly "has the most spiritual light" and is the best place to fellowship implies that to leave is wrong.  Such teaching is cultlike.  

Basically, if old/new Assemblies still exist and still have this "us versus them" teaching then God help them escape from the darkness of spiritual pride!  Nowhere in the Bible does it say one group is allowed to boast that it is better than others.  If the old/new leaders have not repented openly and in practice that such exclusive, cultlike practice is wrong, then it is clear the Assembly system started by George will continue under new leadership.  Very sad indeed.  

In the Psalms it says we should not be like DONKEYS who need to be lead around by others.  Thus, to leave the Assembly system that dictates God's will is to no longer be an ass.  In another thread it talks about how the leadership/worker's meeting instituted a "no-earring rule" that most people blindling followed and accepted as God's will/or a godly example.  Little did people realize at the time that most people in the Assembly had a very real nose ring inserted through their noses that "godly brethren" could yank at any time to get them to go a certain way or do what they want simply because it was labelled as "God's Will/What the Lord wants/a godly testimony."  Thank God I am not the ass that I used to be.  

Lenore, I quoted this for you, because you are fairly new on board.  But it is a good reminder to all.  This is about the Ottawa assembly (which was not that influenced by George ), but it is relevant to all other localities.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[Oscar]

Paul and Debbie were sent out from the Assemblies to Iceland without any financial support because as George says, "In the work we don't guarantee anything." Paul and Debbie, of course, had financial difficulties and so went into debt. George brought them to Fullerton to deal with this "weakness" of getting into debt. They were in Fullerton for at least two years and just before George was about to send them back to St. Louis (their former home before being "sent out into the work") George asked Paul and Debbie to express to the workers what they had learned while in Fullerton. These are Paul's own words.

What was said when we started out this morning about repentance really encouraged my heart, because the Lord has done a restoring work in my life and I'm glad the Lord brought us back here instead of back in St. Louis. I really see the Lord's hand in it. There is one verse that you read this morning, brother, in Proverbs 28, verse 13. It says, "He who conceals his transgression will not prosper, but he who confesses and forsakes them will find compassion." I just want to re-emphasize that verse. It's very cut and dry and clear and practical that, he who conceals his transgression does not walk in openness but walks in darkness, or whatever his transgression is, he just flat will not prosper. But he who confesses them and forsakes them, he's going to find compassion. And, not only that, there is another verse that we claimed when we first went to Iceland was that one in Psalm 40 where "He inclined unto us and heard our cry, drew us out of the pit, and set us on a solid rock and establishes our going." And I think the Lord has really done that in this place.
And I'm really grateful for the time we've been able to spend here... I thank David and Judy especially for the time they spent with us and the effort they put out. I'm really grateful to Betty (and you brother) for having patience with us. I am glad that the Lord kept us here as long as he did. And I don't think there was a minute too long. I want to say this, brother, because I think it needs to be said. There is hope even though there is a real... even though there might come a real failure in a person's life. There is still hope. Because the Lord is merciful. And if we simply turn to Him, like you said, then the veil is taken away and the Lord just flows in with grace and enablement.
And the thing that I've found is that I made a determination here a couple of years ago in a time of great discouragement, I said to myself, "I'm not going to leave the work on my own volition." You know, no matter what my mind tells me about how unworthy and "Woe is me!" sort of thing, I'm not going anywhere unless I'm thrown out. And that was the thing that it took. Just to stay in there and allow the Lord to do the restoring until these weaknesses were brought to the forefront so that the Lord could show us how to deal with them.
And I think now the Lord has gotten real subordination to the leading brethren. To be able to simply obey and to do what one is told. There is a great deal of joy in that.
A very practical lesson we've learned about the work is that it's work. And to be able to do practical work instead of having some "pretency" notion about how, you know... vision of grandeur or whatever it might be... just to be able and willing to do work and to be a worker is... has been a real release and joy in our lives. And an open door for the Lord's grace in our lives. And so when we go back I want to... I want to just be a helper. I want to be a helper. Its a real place of joy to be a part of the cure instead of a part of the problem. It's very simple, but it's I'll tell you a real release.[19]
Paul has learned “to do what one is told.” Furthermore, he has lost all desire to serve the Lord as a missionary. That calling ended in miserable failure; his new calling is to be George's "helper." And, of course, George takes advantage of Paul's help by having Paul build bay windows with built-in cabinets in his living room.

This is from the Reflections site.

I know Paul and Debbie. They are wonderful people.
The nobility of Christ in the lives of this couple was brutally savaged by Geftakys. The workers all stood around meekly and of course digested this harsh lesson
This was a wicked man. His was a wicked system.

Verne

Well Verne,

Not quite quite all the workers.

See my next post for, "the rest of the story".

Thomas Maddux

[Oscar]

Verne,

When Paul and Debbie came to Fullerton after their time in Iceland, Oh it must have been 1986 or so, they were really beaten down.

GG went right to work on them.  "David" hired Paul to do some work at his house.  I forget the details but they ended up very unhappy with Paul.

Something about them constantly changing the requirements but not willing to pay for additional work or such, anyway Paul quit in disgust.

That, to my memory, was when GG began to call them liars.

Paul was really down.  Depressed wouldn't be to strong.  The guy is a magnificent carpenter.  I have seen some fabulous work he did in a hotel here in Orange County.  But it wasn't good enough for the Geftakys clan.

In the worker's circle if you had fallen to a low status you had NO friends.  NO ONE wished to associate with such people.  Plus you could be ripped up publicly and talked about negatively.  (Now how do I know that?   )

When I met him, I immediately saw that he was really, really down.  He, as many of us did, was taking the ugly accusations to heart and actually seeing himself through GG's eyes.

I began spending some time with him.  Mostly I just listened and related to him as a good man, which he is.  And was at that time.

He told me the story of his work for GG and David, and how it went sour.  So I told him, "If you wish to get back in their good graces, give them what they want."  

(Now how did I know that?   )

As soon as he went over there and did the work, (for free of course, how could a godly man like David be wrong?), suddenly GG began to praise them and talk about the tremendous progress they were making.

I have heard GG tell the story many times of their "repentance" and "growth" in the Lord.  They were used as an example to other "failures" as to how they could recover and grow as well.

Last summer as I passed through St. Louis I spent two nights with them.  It was a wonderful renewal of an old friendship.  They are rejoicing and doing very well.

And......that's the rest of the story.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux