Why Leaders Are Responsible

[Matt]

Hi Ho everyone, Matt here. Well, I was out earlier walking on the beach and talking to my imaginary coach about what to say tonight. We prayed together on the beach, which was embarassing because nobody but me and Brent can see my imaginary coach, so it looked like I was talking to myself the entire time. Then I went to Mc Donalds and Starbucks. What can I say? I am an American! Hear me ROAR!

Sorry, trying my hand at creative writing. Ok now where to start today? This post will take some time.

Do you think you've never done something stupid? Try to see it from everyone else's perspective.
Love,
Laurie.

Well, Laurie, this stumped me the most. I had to rack my brain for a good hour trying to remember if I've ever done something stupid in the past 21 years of my life. Finally, yes, I did remember something. A few years ago when I was 17 and my sister was 14, we had flown into Chicago in order to drive to Iowa City to visit an uncle and aunt and cousins who lives there. My great uncle in Chicago let us borrow his pick-up truck for the drive. Well, soon we came up to this creepy apparatus on the highway - the toll plaza. Being from California and Minnesota, my sister and I have never seen anything but FREEways. We were soon confronted with a decision "Manual" or "Automatic." Not realizing it had to do with payment, we were perplexed at first. We decided that we would go to the automatic line since the truck was not a stick-shift (manual), but an automatic. Then we see that automatic means correct change only and all we have is a 20 and an atm card. Looking desperately in the crack in the seats on the floor, we found no coins. A semi behind us blared its horn and a worker came over with the name of Greta. I believe she said something similar to our sweet Eulaha: Can't you read? So we proceed and then we are confronted with another decision. Cars and Trucks. Well, since we are in a pick up truck, we naturally pull into the truck lane. Soon we find ourselves surrounded in sea of semis. Guess who comes back? Greta with a handful of paper work that we had to fill out for using the wrong lane. Only at the next "toll plaza" do I see that it says "Pick ups use car lane" on a huge sign. So yes, Laurie, I did do something stupid once.

As for seeing other people's perspectives, my GOODNESS, how could I not? The website and bulletin board was made from people with views that are hostile to leading brothers and to the assembly. That being said, who do you think are the ones most attracted to the site? People with hostile views to the assembly and to leading brothers. I realize that since the website is really a kind of private property, they can do whatever they want on it. But as long as they let me post my perspective here, I will do it. I thank Mr. Tucker and Mr. Tr0ckman for letting me do that.

I would like to pin you down, by asking you to answer something:

If a church holds to, and vigorously teaches false doctrine, does God hold the teachers accountable?  Or is it only moral sins, like adultery that matter?

And what, pray tell, is the false doctrine that you are referring to? As you note later on, you imply that you have no idea what the false doctrine is in the Geftakys ministry as you have to ask us what it is. Don't take things at face value - just because Brent Tr0ckman says false doctrine was the standard in the assembly, that doesn't mean it was. You also need to keep in mind that every church has some false doctrine - no church has perfect doctrine. Only Jesus Christ had perfect doctrine. I'm not sure where the adultery comes in? GG never preached that adultery was acceptable - so it is not applicable to any false doctrine of the assembly. And, as stated many many many many many times before, his adultery was hardly known by anyone - including the vast majority of leading brothers.

If a leader's fellow leaders (in a system that is presbyterian in nature) observe an inconsistency in a teacher's life and words, they are obligated to examine the doctrine, knowing that teachers incur stricter judgement.  Teachers are held to a higher standard than others.  

What more can I say then repeat again what has been said even by Andrea Denner, whose witness you found particularly important. Most leading brothers did not observe an inconsistency in the life of GG and his words. He didn't make his adultery public knowledge, and DG's wife beating was definitely kept among an extremely extremely miniscule percentage of LBs. Therefore, they did not observe an inconsistency in the life of GG and his teaching. Also, "GG's doctrine" didn't include the sins that he committed. Again, adultery and money squandering, plagarizing, etc, were not beliefs that were held acceptable in the assemblies.

There is simply no rational argument to the contrary,  although leaders caught with their proverbial pants down, often try to claim a seperation between their private life, and their teaching.  Our ex-president Clinton has been known to promulgate this theory, which is rejected by God.  Again, if a man has been authoritatively teaching doctrine, as George Geftakys did, and his life is a contradiction to his words, the Bible calls this type of widom, demonic.

Nobody here is saying that GG didn't claim a separation between his priate life and his teaching. Indeed, he did. Do you think he walked around at seminars and boasted about his adultery and the fact that he let his son beat his wife? No, sir - that's ridiculous. Nobody is saying that he is innocent. But the vast majority of LB's didn't commit adultery or beat their wives and therefore not "demonic" as you imply.

If we conclude that George Geftakys is this type of man, then we must also conclude that the leaders who served under him lapsed in  their biblical responsibility to examine his doctrine, or as it is put in another passage, to test the spirits.

Oh his doctrine was examined, and he was stood up to many times by LB's. But we are still waiting, Lurker, as to what the false doctrine is that you are talking about.

What false doctrine was foisted by George, and who allowed him to foist it?  
Lurker

Yes, Lurker, what is the false doctrine? You don't know? You're just assuming that the assembly had false doctrine? I'll admit that it does - every church does. Every church leader is a sinner - it's inevitable. But don't jump on the bandwagon, Lurker.

Now, there is another aspect to accountability that should be mentioned at this point:

Mat 18:6  But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.  7  "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come!

and

42  "And if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to be thrown into the sea with a large millstone tied around his neck.

The context here is regarding the Pharisee's, who were regarded as the religious authority of the day.  They saw themselves as defenders of the faith, and they sat in Moses' seat.  Furthermore, the people viewed them as such.

However, their teaching did not bring people closer to God, but the opposite.  Jesus said that they made it impossible for people to enter the kingdom.  The judgment they incurred for stumbling the little ones is far greater than the judgment the little one's incur for listening to a "blind guide," or a "son of the devil," as the Pharisee's are called by Jesus.

I guess, Lurker, here is where it becomes subjective and you can only come at this second-hand. As someone who was actually in an assembly, I can attest that I grew much closer to God in the assembly. The teaching in the assembly faciliated that - getting into the Word everyday, being encouraged to share the Word with unbelievers, pray for and with others, fellowshipping with believers, etc. A personal relationship with Jesus, a walk with Him, was the basis of the assembly. The saints and their leaders didn't ask the other saints: how's your walk with GG? No, sir - how's your walk with the Lord?

As for the issue of stumbling, I believe the assembly did a lot to help people from stumbling. Accountability was a key part of the assembly experience. I'll agree that some people abused that. But the assemblyites lived a very sheltered life - as much separation from worldliness as possible was taught and encouraged vigourously. If you were struggling with something, those close to you in the assembly could help you through it (of course the Lord is what ultimately gets out of our sinful desires and back onto the path of Godliness.). I guess that is one thing I miss about the assembly- the accountability.
Lord bless.
- Matt

[Matt]

Laurie,
Regarding my experience in Chicago, I've decided that maybe I wasn't the stupid one, maybe they were stupid. They word things so stupidly east of the Mississippi, and since I'm from the part of Minnesota that is west of that river, I am safe. If these "toll plazas" had been in California, they would have been labeled "Exact Change only Lane" or "Not Exact Change Lane" - none of this "automatic" and "manual" business. I'm sure I'm not the only victim of that confusing sytem. Yes, I'm not stupid after all. Maybe I'm overanalyzing the situation? I'll have to get back to you on your question later.
Lord bless.
- Matt "humble" Peeling

[sfortescue]

On another note,  Andrea, is it true that your husband was considered a leader but you were not?  Is this teaching characteristic of your former group?  Were the leader's wive's viewed as any other woman in the group, or were they seen as one flesh with their husband, and therefore a leader also?

Lurker

The Bible says that the two shall be one flesh.  That they are not one spirit is clear from Jesus' answer to the Sadducees in Mark 12:25.  "For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven."  So spiritually we are considered to be individuals.
Since we are to walk after the Spirit and not after the flesh, the spiritual plane is what counts in spiritual leadership.  The net result is two individual spirits inhabiting a single two-part body.  The one spirit is leader, and the other is not.

[MGov]

The manner in which the wife of an elder or deacon excercises leadership responsibility may indeed be constrained by Scripture (not teaching men etc.) but does that mean they are not to be considered leaders? In my view, they unquestionably are; both by virtue of calling and  of practical necessity!
Verne

Oh, you mean like a leading sister?  

M

[Lurker]

And what, pray tell, is the false doctrine that you are referring to? As you note later on, you imply that you have no idea what the false doctrine is in the Geftakys ministry as you have to ask us what it is. Don't take things at face value - just because Brent Tr0ckman says false doctrine was the standard in the assembly, that doesn't mean it was. You also need to keep in mind that every church has some false doctrine - no church has perfect doctrine. Only Jesus Christ had perfect doctrine. I'm not sure where the adultery comes in? GG never preached that adultery was acceptable - so it is not applicable to any false doctrine of the assembly. And, as stated many many many many many times before, his adultery was hardly known by anyone - including the vast majority of leading brothers.


Oh his doctrine was examined, and he was stood up to many times by LB's. But we are still waiting, Lurker, as to what the false doctrine is that you are talking about.

What false doctrine was foisted by George, and who allowed him to foist it?  
Lurker

Yes, Lurker, what is the false doctrine? You don't know? You're just assuming that the assembly had false doctrine? I'll admit that it does - every church does. Every church leader is a sinner - it's inevitable. But don't jump on the bandwagon, Lurker.

Matt

You are correct, I haven't set foot in an Assembly meeting for years.  I did read this, which was circulated nationally among at least one large campus organization:

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Brochure.htm

Exclusivity and Elitism. It is a known fact that The Assembly and its campus subgroups are not at all involved in the evangelical community’s many activities and inter-church events. They prefer to stick to themselves and promote their own events.  The reason for this is because they teach that God is extremely concerned that everything be done a certain way in the church. They claim that if things are not patterned after Assembly ideals, being influenced by modern culture, God is displeased, and will withdraw His support.

• They also assert that The Assembly is one of the few churches that is doing things God’s way. For example, George Geftakys teaches, “I am convinced that most professing Christians today do not know how to worship.”[xi] He goes on to say that he, unlike most Christians, does know the correct way to worship. “He revealed to me what it meant to worship in spirit and in truth.”[xii]  The Assembly also believes that, “All ecclesiastical organizations, missionary societies, public lists of membership and funds, etc. are a denial and departure from a walk of faith and dependence on the Lord for all things.”[xiii] Along with this, The Assembly holds to the idea that any church or missionary organization that applies for tax-exempt status with the government is, “the essence of sectarianism.”[xiv] This view is in clear contradiction to what Jesus taught in Luke 20:21-25, where He clearly taught His disciples to pay their taxes.  Romans 13:1-7 also plainly states that Christians should obey the laws of the land, especially with regard to paying taxes.  There is no Biblical justification for condemning churches that obey the laws of the land in order to enjoy tax-exempt status.  Many ex-members testify that while in The Assembly, they heard teaching on a regular basis that demeaned and mocked local Christian churches and the evangelical community at large. It is our opinion that these stances taken by The Assembly create and un-biblical division in Christ’s Body.  Furthermore, when these ideas are inculcated in member’s minds, they result in isolation from other Christians. Thus The Assembly loses a large measure of accountability that could be had if they enjoyed fellowship with other gatherings.  This lack of accountability leaves the door open to extreme practices, spiritual and even physical abuses, which have been widely reported as having occurred in The Assembly.[xv]
[/color]

Please understand that all the claims are derived from footnoted literature that was purported to have been displayed on every Assembly's literature display.  I myself have viewed the pamphlets, and the quotes are verbatim, and in context.  So, this is one form of false doctrine that can be verified.  

And then there is this:

http://geftakysassembly.com/Articles/TeachingPractice/GGPublishedWritings.htm

Again, a quote: "It is important to emphasize that although the church is engaged to Christ, it does not necessarily follow that all the church will be the bride! Only those who are faithful to their betrothal will be fit for the Bridegroom. 'Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish' (Eph. 5:25-27). By keeping ourselves clean by the washing of the prophetic word, we can be a fitting companion to the King" (p. 61).
A distinction is made between the church and the bride. Not all who are part of the church are part of the bride. The bride is composed only of overcomers who have kept themselves clean to be a fitting companion to the King. Again, we see that Christians are divided into two groups, making the vast majority of simple believers in Christ second-class citizens.

"We begin this consideration by saying what perhaps many would rather not hear – that entrance into the kingdom of God is based upon a condition. Salvation from the consequences of sin is unconditional; but to know all the privileges and the inheritance associated with the kingdom is conditional according to our response after we have been saved. According to the Word of God, love for Christ is the determining factor of our entrance into the kingdom of God. 'If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha [literally, let him be accursed, the Lord cometh]' (1 Cor. 16:22)" (p. 63).
Commenting on 1 Cor. 6:9-10 and Eph. 5:5. "Even a Christian, if he is living an unrighteous life, will not inherit the kingdom of God" (p. 67).


with regard to my querie to Matt, have you ever read what George actually believed and taught?  Elsewhere on this BB, it has been proven that Geftakys taught that man was created on the seventh day, in clear contradiction to the biblical account.  While it is commendable that Andrea's husband questioned him, the facts remain as thus:  (again, this is based on what has been said by several people on this forum, I never heard George say this)

Keeping the above in mind, George taught seventh day creation several times, in public, at seminars.  While it is probable that leaders questioned him on this, the fact that he never corrected or retracted his error, and continued to teach it, over a period greater than one year means that he was allowed to do so.  Furthermore, in spite of his arrogant demeanor, and public false teaching in the form of published works and public teaching, he was the main "evangelical," functionary of the group, travelling worldwide 2 to 3 times per year.

Who allowed him to do this?  

My presence on this BB would be even stronger, if adultery was not an issue.  I see the adultery as a terrible distraction from the greater sin of false teaching.  Again, this is not to say that adultery is not bad, it is.  However, false teaching or this nature is far more damaging in the long run. The false teaching that I am aware of, which must be just a small slice, is enough cause for alarm, especially considering the ambitions that this group displayed on campuses accross the country.  I have a vested interest to see that this group never again recruits victims from campuses.

Please, the statements I have made above are based on what I have read, with my own eyes, that was published with George's name on it, and his picture on the back.  The publishing company was Torch and Testimony Publications.  I assume that this was authentic literature.  If this is not the case, than I owe Matt, and many others an apology.  

Lurker

[Eulaha L. Long]

Normal churches are usuallya network of a network of other churches, where there is accountability for what is taught.  If there is any "false doctrine" taught in those gatherings, then it would be caught, and publically corrected.  That was not the case with GG's Assemblies.  Saints may hear something off, and may bring it up to the leading brothers, but usually it was explained away and the "false doctrine" continued to be taught.

I doubt that any healthy church is willingly teaching false doctrine.  Note I said a "healthy" church.  GG is an adulterer, full of pride and bitterness towards organized churches (maybe because he was fired as a pastor??).  Him teaching false doctrine was inevitable, because his walk with the Lord is questionable.  The Assembly never was a healthy church from the beginning, because its self-proclaimed leader was willfully living in sin.

[David Mauldin]

Denver sang the song!  It's on his Greatest Hits album!

[MGov]

Actually....at 6' 4" and 300 pounds, I bear an imposing presence.  That combined with my frequent comment If it don't go my way, the boys'll take care of ya" convinced everyone that I was the real leader here.

Andrea

And at 150 years of age too;  Now here's a REAL leading sister !!  

You know why the assemblies did not have sisters as doorkeepers?
Rhoda didn't open the door for Peter, so that was the LAST time a sister was given that responsibility.

M

[MGov]

Hi Ho everyone, Matt here. Well, I was out earlier walking on the beach and talking to my imaginary coach about what to say tonight. We prayed together on the beach, which was embarassing because nobody but me and Brent can see my imaginary coach, so it looked like I was talking to myself the entire time. Then I went to Mc Donalds and Starbucks. What can I say? I am an American! Hear me ROAR!

Sorry, trying my hand at creative writing. Ok now where to start today? This post will take some time.

Do you think you've never done something stupid? Try to see it from everyone else's perspective.
Love,
Laurie.

Well, Laurie, this stumped me the most. I had to rack my brain for a good hour trying to remember if I've ever done something stupid in the past 21 years of my life. Finally, yes, I did remember something. A few years ago when I was 17 and my sister was 14, we had flown into Chicago in order to drive to Iowa City to visit an uncle and aunt and cousins who lives there. My great uncle in Chicago let us borrow his pick-up truck for the drive. Well, soon we came up to this creepy apparatus on the highway - the toll plaza. Being from California and Minnesota, my sister and I have never seen anything but FREEways. We were soon confronted with a decision "Manual" or "Automatic." Not realizing it had to do with payment, we were perplexed at first. We decided that we would go to the automatic line since the truck was not a stick-shift (manual), but an automatic. Then we see that automatic means correct change only and all we have is a 20 and an atm card. Looking desperately in the crack in the seats on the floor, we found no coins. A semi behind us blared its horn and a worker came over with the name of Greta. I believe she said something similar to our sweet Eulaha: Can't you read? So we proceed and then we are confronted with another decision. Cars and Trucks. Well, since we are in a pick up truck, we naturally pull into the truck lane. Soon we find ourselves surrounded in sea of semis. Guess who comes back? Greta with a handful of paper work that we had to fill out for using the wrong lane. Only at the next "toll plaza" do I see that it says "Pick ups use car lane" on a huge sign. So yes, Laurie, I did do something stupid once.
......

Regarding my experience in Chicago, I've decided that maybe I wasn't the stupid one, maybe they were stupid. They word things so stupidly east of the Mississippi, and since I'm from the part of Minnesota that is west of that river, I am safe. If these "toll plazas" had been in California, they would have been labeled "Exact Change only Lane" or "Not Exact Change Lane" - none of this "automatic" and "manual" business. I'm sure I'm not the only victim of that confusing sytem. Yes, I'm not stupid after all. Maybe I'm overanalyzing the situation? I'll have to get back to you on your question later.
Lord bless.
- Matt "humble" Peeling

Matt  

You're aging pre-maturely.  You're developing this sense of humor, and writing long long posts.  And all at the young age of 21 (or have you had your Y2003 Birthday already?). I'm impressed.
That is funny though.
(BTW I am not being sarcastic).

That's all for now (TAFN)
M

[editor]

Please, the statements I have made above are based on what I have read, with my own eyes, that was published with George's name on it, and his picture on the back.  The publishing company was Torch and Testimony Publications.  I assume that this was authentic literature.  If this is not the case, than I owe Matt, and many others an apology.  

Lurker

Hello there:

I'm the author of the brochure you mention, and I can guarantee you that the literature cited is genuine, straight from any Assembly's booktable.  During announcements at the end of meetings, especially seminars, one or more of George's books would be recommended by Leaders and Elders, so they definitely promoted George's teaching!

I can't imagine how anyone could suggest that the Assembly leadership didn't promote George's teaching.  The very idea is ludicrous!

I am NOT the author of the second paper you cited, but before I published it on the website, I checked out the references there, and they are 100% accurate as well.

What you cited below is a fair sampling of the core beliefs of the Assembly.  There are other aspects, related to George's doctrine as well.  For instance, while much of his Deeper Life teaching is debateable, it does fall within the realm of evangelical Christianity.  However, the way these doctrines were expanded upon and put into practice is yet another form of false doctrine.

I vote for a new thread, where we can examine before/after views on doctrine.  There used to be a thread like this called:  Smashing Spectacles.  It was short quips, but some of them really good.   I think we should expand upon that, but keep the discussion civilized and honest.

Read a GG teaching, and then sort it out.  Any takers?

Brent

[Matt]

Just for the record, I know Jerry and Tina Robinson well. I lived with Tina Robinson in a brother and sisters' house for about eighteen months. Those of you who think you know anything about our relationship are being presumptuous in the extreme. 'Nuff said.
Verne

Why Verne, nobody commented on your relationship with those individuals. Although, the board could see that you condoned those condemning remarks from that anonymous woman in STL - so your relationship couldn't be that great. Anyway, you need to reign that wild imagination of yours in.

[MGov]

I would like to comment on 2 points:
1.  Allowing GG to teach false doctrine
2.  Exclusivity and elitism

1. Matt brings up an valuable point with regards to this.
quote:
Andrea, if your husband felt that he allowed GG to be arrogant, then perhaps he did. Perhaps he felt led to repent for that. However, you have to remember that we cannot hold our own personal experience in the assembly as the gold standard by which to judge the entire assembly system. Because your husband felt he let GG be arrogant, that doesn't mean every leading brother let him be such. As I stated before, it's kind of silly to say that the leading brothers "allowed" GG to be a sinner (in this case via arrogance). That's like saying they "allowed" the sky to be blue or that they "allowed" the sun to rise. In other words they "allowed" the only thing that could happen to happen. Again, GG is a man and is therefore incapable of being anything but a sinner. So elders don't really have any choice but to allow a sinner as their leader. If the standard for being a leader in the church is to be sinless, then we would never have any kind of church leadership or any kind of elders, etc. So, I don't believe the arrogance issue is a major one at all - we're all arrogant from time to time.
end-quote
I personally tended to give GG 'the benefit of the doubt' treatment when I did not fully understand him.

Which brings me to
2.  If I were to hold every leader accountable for everything he preached that was 'false doctrine' then I cannot think of any church that I could comfortably fellowship at without, then being accused of being elite/exclusive.

Comprendez-vous.

M

[Joe Sperling]

Why do these game shows make me think of the Assembly:

"Truth or Consequences"
"To Tell the Truth"
"Family Feud"
"Jeopardy"(especially "Final Jeopardy")
"The Weakest Link"
"Survivor"
"I've got a secret"


hmmmm.... oh well

[editor]

Leaders must be willing to be corrected on "false doctrine".  I am not saying that there is any man who will teach every single point correctly.  What I am saying is that when a teacher begins to teach false doctrine, or twisted doctrine, and puts a major focus on it, and it influences every area of his ministry, something must be done!  And we didn't do it!  

Andrea

Andrea, you have articulately expressed exactly how I look at it.  Thank you!

I am getting some really great email from some former Assembly people today.  The Lord is doing a great work of recovery, and it looks as if something of real significance is about to happen.  No, I'm not talking about someone getting in trouble with the law, or anything like that.  I'm referring to someone influential who is beginning to see some things.

Brent

[Matt]

It ought to be obvious to any objective reader that the treatment dished out to Luke and Paul Robinson for some of the things they posted was well-deserved. It is sad that I had to be the one to do it. Kinda reminds you of how things were in the assemblies doesn't it?. You think anyone buys that garbage about being a good example when you are dealing with raving lunatics?

Verne, sir, why so emotional? So you think that Luke and Paul Robinson are both raving lunatics? In your desperation, you have turned to name calling. Ask yourself - does the Lord want me to call Luke and Paul "raving lunatics?" Am I building up my brothers by calling them names? Or is the devil using me to say hurtful comments to them to bring them down and discredit them? Verne, the hatred and bitterness on Brent's website and this BB has started to affect you. Some people can handle it and rise above the promotion of hatred and bitterness, wrath, etc on this board, and others can't - trust me, you're one who can't. I also think it's odd that it's ok to slander Luke and Paul Robinson, and Tim G, and anyone else who doesn't think that all the leading bros are responsible, but yet, if anyone says something slanderous about Tony Edwards, Brent, Verne or anyone else who agrees with them - well then that grounds for going to hell. I'm worried that people are building Brent Tr0ckman up the same way they built GG up. I know that comparing people to GG has been the ultimate insult on this BB and I'm not saying that Mr. Tr0ckman is like GG. No, sir - that's ridiculous. But I'm saying that nobody jumped to L and P's defense when Verne viciously attacked them here, and it was probably because Brent Tr0ckman has been known to disagree very much with them. Think about why.

I vote for a new thread, where we can examine before/after views on doctrine.  

Chop-Chop, King Brent has spoken. Come on Brent's followers - get to it, start that thread up!

Hold on a second.  Are you telling me that it is ok for us to accept a leader's behavior when it completely contradicts what he is teaching??

Most leaders teach that we must be Christ-like. No leading brother is Christ-like - none of them are Christ. Again, if your standard for Church leadership is perfection, is to be sinless, then you will never have any leadership in the church.

"Only heavenly people go to heaven".  What did you think of when he said this?  I always thought that the bible teaches that the saved go to heaven.  If this statement doesn't leave people in a constant state of "am I good enough?", I don't know what does.  We go to heaven because of Jesus!!
I know that all of the saints would agree with my last statement, even George.  

Why, this is interesting. You said in your last post that it's that "extra twist" that made GG's teachings false. But who added the extra twist here? (hint: you did in this case) "Only heavenly people go to heaven" makes sense to me. Heavenly=having to do with heaven,having characteristics of heaven. What are the characteristics of Heaven? The saints will be there: it will be filled with the saints! So only the Saints will go to Heaven - and this is true. If you added an extra twist that made it false, that's not the leader's fault.

It is a known fact that The Assembly and its campus subgroups are not at all involved in the evangelical community’s many activities and inter-church events. They prefer to stick to themselves and promote their own events.

Since Brent was the author of this, and not God, I do not feel that it is as infallible as you do, Lurker. I especially like the last line: they promote their own events LOL. What church doesn't?!! Do you think any church out there vigorously promotes another's churchs' events over its own? No, sir - that's ridiculous.
 

Many ex-members testify that while in The Assembly, they heard teaching on a regular basis that demeaned and mocked local Christian churches and the evangelical community at large. It is our opinion that these stances taken by The Assembly create and un-biblical division in Christ’s Body.

Well, I testify that in my 3 yrs of involvement with the Geftakys ministry, I have never heard them demean or mock local Christian churches unless they brought up actual un-Biblical points about them (for example, 7th day adventists, or catholics). If, in my 3 yrs of assembly involvement, mocking and demeaning of other churches was never brought up, then I can't imagine that it was a common issue.

Furthermore, when these ideas are inculcated in member’s minds, they result in isolation from other Christians.

This is again Brent's opinion. We must watch out for that - we've seen its bias. Maybe at Brent's assembly this was not the case, but I know the people at my assembly all had many Christian friends outside the assembly - many of whom we prayed for - for their health, their job security, for their encouragement. Lurker, you placed such value on Andrea Denner's witness for her time in the assembly. Well, I'm a primary source as well. I have eyes and ears too and I was there. You, sir, have only secondary sources and are only able to make an opinion based on that. I can understand you using GG's own writings - that too is a primary source. But Brent's pamphlet is his opinion and his view of the assembly is peppered with his own bitterness and wrath based on his personal experience - it hardly an all-encompassing witness of the assembly. Lord bless.

- Matt