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Author Topic: State of the "Ministry"  (Read 54480 times)
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« Reply #60 on: December 13, 2003, 02:22:23 am »

We had this article on the website a year ago.  I think it is still apropo for today.  

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/persecution.html

Brent
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Recovering Saint
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« Reply #61 on: December 13, 2003, 02:48:05 am »

I agree now that I am out I see a stark difference in the way things are in other Christian circles.

The secrecy coverup and manipulation mostly emotional but just as real as any other abuse is very sad.

We are sincere they say. Look what we did for you. You lived with us ate our food.

The Lord says some will say to Him "we ate with you and had fellowship with you" and He will say to them "Depart from Me I never knew you".

All this to say it is not enough to say we lived together etc. But rather when we tried to point out your involvement in a closed secretive system you threw it back on us and caused us to be looked upon as the problem.

Prove it they say. Then you point it out and they say look get over it you have bitterness. What they want is to silence the victims so they can go on abusing people and no one will stop them doing what they want.

I'm sorry that they are crying but even an alcoholic has remorse but goes on to repeat it again. Some will be sorry only because they are caught. Some will be sorry as in 2 Cor 7 to repent.

8 I am no longer sorry that I sent that letter to you, though I was sorry for a time, for I know that it was painful to you for a little while. 9 Now I am glad I sent it, not because it hurt you, but because the pain caused you to have remorse and change your ways. It was the kind of sorrow God wants his people to have, so you were not harmed by us in any way. 10 For God can use sorrow in our lives to help us turn away from sin and seek salvation. We will never regret that kind of sorrow. But sorrow without repentance is the kind that results in death. 11 Just see what this godly sorrow produced in you! Such earnestness, such concern to clear yourselves, such indignation, such alarm, such longing to see me, such zeal, and such a readiness to punish the wrongdoer. You showed that you have done everything you could to make things right.

« Last Edit: December 13, 2003, 02:51:44 am by Recovering Saint » Logged
M2
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« Reply #62 on: December 13, 2003, 03:51:20 am »

We had this article on the website a year ago.  I think it is still apropo for today.  

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/persecution.html

Brent

In the words of another:

This is self-perpetuating: we are right, criticism is therefore wrong, the enemy has sent this criticism, we must resist the enemy - we must not listen to them and we must carry on. It is a trap.
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editor
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« Reply #63 on: December 13, 2003, 09:02:28 am »

We had this article on the website a year ago.  I think it is still apropo for today.  

http://www.geftakysassembly.com/persecution.html

Brent

In the words of another:

This is self-perpetuating: we are right, criticism is therefore wrong, the enemy has sent this criticism, we must resist the enemy - we must not listen to them and we must carry on. It is a trap.

Yes:

The Assembly is God's work, therefore it is God.  It is right.  Anything that is negative towards God's work is wrong and from the Enemy.

The website, therefore is from the devil.

Don't listen to anything that criticises the Assembly.

Contrast this with "My sheep hear My voice."  His sheep hear the voice of the stranger, but they won't follow a stranger.  However, George's sheep hear the voice of the stranger, but won't hear the voice of The Shepherd.  Everything is upside down and backwards.

Brent

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M2
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« Reply #64 on: December 13, 2003, 09:48:57 pm »

Yes:

The Assembly is God's work, therefore it is God.  It is right.  Anything that is negative towards God's work is wrong and from the Enemy.

The website, therefore is from the devil.

Don't listen to anything that criticises the Assembly.

Contrast this with "My sheep hear My voice."  His sheep hear the voice of the stranger, but they won't follow a stranger.  However, George's sheep hear the voice of the stranger, but won't hear the voice of The Shepherd.  Everything is upside down and backwards.

Brent

Brent,

You have a bad attitude (BA). You need joy and peace and a soft heart. Please phone your nearest local assembly and request that they pray for you. Of course, the website is from the devil. Simple logic dictates it. You have been persecuting those poor innocent LBs and workers and their wives, and all of us mindless individuals just followed you blindly.

All joking aside, I doubt that anyone who gave themselves to the "work" is innocent. This is not to point the finger at those who have truly repented.

How is it possible that the sheep hear the voice of a stranger, but won't hear the voice of the Shepherd? I suggest that these ones are those who Paul speaks of in 2Tim 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires;". Though the leaders bear the greater responsibility, the sheep like the brand of Christianity that is being promoted and therefore, also bear a great responsibility for their condition.

Marcia
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M2
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« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2003, 02:02:34 am »

Anyone that criticizes the assembly is like a diseased limb that needs to be amputated so that the rest of the body can survive. Or like the branch that needs to be pruned from the plant and thrown into the fire.

Marcia
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #66 on: December 20, 2003, 02:48:24 am »

Anyone that criticizes the assembly is like a diseased limb that needs to be amputated so that the rest of the body can survive. Or like the branch that needs to be pruned from the plant and thrown into the fire.

Marcia

In the early 80's a few people out of Champaign "left fellowship." I heard my parents talking during the week that someone in the Assembly, a single mom, called these people and asked them some questions about why they left.

That Sunday morning, it was announced that those who left were "wolves, circling the flock, looking for weak lambs to devour."

The "Saints" were warned to avoid these people lest they be stumbled. Roll Eyes

I wish the "wolves" had done more stumbling back then!

Scott McCumber
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Recovering Saint
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« Reply #67 on: December 30, 2003, 06:46:51 pm »

Example of leaven

Throughout GG's teaching there are references to Work out your salvation. Strive to enter in. These are of course found in scripture but the way it is slipped into the conversation is interesting to note.

To one who is Grace based these statements mean to keep focusing on the Lord and let Him work things and cooperate with Him in His workings.

To one who is works based which is putting salvation in your control not Christ's it means activity of some kind. Usually it is something that appears good like praying more, reading the word more and keeping checklists or flags to keep from sin.

The Assembly was full of many sure-fire methods.
·   Line and Wheel
·   Handbook to Happiness
·   The other side of the garden
·   Tender Warrior
·   Selfer’s Prayer
These are just a few examples of the leaven that spoils the simple faith of one who sincerely wants to serve the Lord. They appear good and seem to promise results but they are not according to faith. It undermines that simplicity of which the Lord says is so important to enter in.

If we understand that we begin by faith continue by faith are accepted by faith and are glorified by faith and need not work out our salvation as something "we achieve" then we are free to follow after the Spirit.

Someone who "does" becomes weary; someone who "is 'in Christ' by faith" is renewed.

To "believe" assures me I am in Christ.
To "do" focuses on my failures to overcome.

To "believe" assures growth.
To "do" encourages spiritual pride and ultimately failure.

Leaven is like the mustard seed it is small but makes a big difference in the results. Works disguised as spiritual additions always causes death.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2003, 07:15:07 pm by Hugh » Logged
Joe Sperling
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« Reply #68 on: December 30, 2003, 09:06:01 pm »

Hugh----

Thanks for your post. What you say is right on the money for sure. It's interesting when you really look at all we "did" when we were in Assembly at how George and his teachings attempted to take "the work of God" and make it OUR WORK. Even the "Brother's houses" were an attempt to take the forming work of the Holy Spirit and put it into our own hands. Somehow, through all of the stewardships, meetings, and close associations, not to mention the disciplining hand of leading brothers, Christ was to be "formed in us", when that can only be accomplished by the gracious hand of God himself. Thank God it is "not of him who willeth, nor of him who runneth, but OF GOD who shows mercy".

--Joe
« Last Edit: December 30, 2003, 09:08:23 pm by Joe Sperling » Logged
M2
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« Reply #69 on: December 31, 2003, 09:33:10 am »

About 1 1/2 year ago, I was told by an Ottawa "worker" that a certain individual could not be sent out to start a 'testimony' in another city that we were praying for because he did not have the vision for George's ministry. These are the same individuals who claim that GG's influence was not strong in Ottawa, but yet the qualification for involvement in the work was a knowledge of his ministry (reading his books etc.).

GG's influence was so far-reaching that we have even picked up 'expressions' that were peculiar to him. Someone reminded me that those 'expressions' are still being used. They are not harmful in and of themselves, but they do indicate GG's influence upon the Ottawa assembly. GG had a particular pronunciation for Haggai which bugged some people, but others adopted it as their own.

Marcia
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d3z
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« Reply #70 on: December 31, 2003, 11:46:10 pm »

Ironically, the Hagg-ee-eye pronunciation is fairly common in some seminaries.  It did make me cringe every time he said it.  That and El-Shadd-ee-eye.
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Delila Jahn
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« Reply #71 on: January 01, 2004, 10:50:33 pm »

It worked.  I'm amazed.  I got on the bb!
Analyze analyze.  That's what people do.  Read my analyzing to follow.  Not sure yet how to get my mail on this cite so send it to my homail address.
delila
   
Rising from Total Zero

   My mother was born in a refugee camp in Munich, Germany.  She came to
this country a child, floating on a boat, without a single English word in her mouth,
her mother holding her hand, and vomiting into the sea.  They traveled by train from
Halifax to Estevan, Saskatchewan.  “When I came [to] this country,” Grandma tells
me.  “I was total zero.”  Her children taught her English when they came home from
school.  Even now she considers herself a dummy.
   As far back as I can remember I’ve wanted to be something too.  Very young,
I knew what I wasn’t.  I was, maybe ten years old when everyone else bragged about
what they’d be when they grew up. A visiting uncle turned finally to me asking, ‘And
you, Delila, what are you going to be?’ and I whispered: something.
   I am nearly forty - actually half way between thirty and forty but I’ve acquired
my mother’s habit of rounding numbers up or down to point to a fact: ‘You’re five
years old and you still can’t....’ (when I was really four and so on, through the years,
measuring me both against my older sister and my younger brother,  finding me
lacking either way). She stepped on me to raise herself. Now I’m thirty-five, to be
exact but let’s face it - I may as well be forty, right?  When I turn forty then, and still
haven’t ‘made my way’ in the world, my mother’s voice will be rounding things up
still further in my head, whether she’s alive or not, whether she suffered a mental
illness or not.  .  
   The facts are presently thus: my sister, isn’t yet that lawyer Dad predicted.  My
little brother isn’t the rock star either, though he played the straw broom with such
conviction.  So, am I something?
   Early on it was clear I needed something, to do something to get something if I
was ever going to be something.  So I joined the first cult that came along.  
   I’d been sent to school dirty, bullied, pegged as a slow learner and put in the
‘stupid row’. When I read To Kill a Mockingbird in high school and  Lawrence’s The
Diviners my first year of university, I knew I was white trash.  But by then I’d already
found God, right?  So what did it matter, how I was raised?  And I’d found God, in
whose eyes all flesh was grass, in front of whom all would burn with fervent heat,
before God, who could stand?  I had found my purpose: God’s service.
   Did I feel accepted?  Did I have friends?  Did I measure up?  Was I good
enough?  Of course not. And so what?  The world was going to hell.  There were
souls to save, what did my pathetic little ego matter when we were in the great war
for souls?  This war, fought on your knees in prayer, submission, death to self.  
    For seven years I clung to this conviction, reading the Bible everyday,
praying, going to meetings, keeping no secrets, watching no television (the devil’s
tool - the idiot box), seeing no men.
   Men.  By this time I was nearly twenty-four and in 1992, that’s a feat.  Twenty
four and still a virgin?  Wow.  And yet part of my evolving fantasy of myself was to
be the faithful wife of a godly man too.  To submit to him - a romantic notion.  Sadly,
my celibacy came to a horrible end.
   But now I’m telling too much of a story, not reflecting enough on the facts,
essaying as I should.  And up until that point in my life I was always concerned about
what I should do.  I kept my nose clean, sang with the faithful: “The world behind me,
the cross before me.  No turning back.  No turning back.”
   So keeping to that point - I wanted to be something.  I remember now.  I was
ten, licking my cold sore, listening to my brother and sister and then wondering how
I’d justify my existence.
   I bought a black leather jacket when I left the Lord.  Funny to define it that
way now, like I left my husband. I left the Lord.  My parents never phoned, had
changed their lifestyle little when we left the nest - except now they could afford to
eat out more often; otherwise, they didn’t notice.  What was there to say to them,
though my life had suddenly changed forever, that tree falling in the forest and no one
to hear me dying under it.  Except the faithful.
   I set a second hand answering machine to pick up on the first ring and listened
to the calls of the faithful as they phoned one by one to plead with a recorded voice
who sounded like she were under water.  I saw the sea of Moses, parted.  I rubbed my
toe into orange shag carpet and talked back to the leading brother’s voice as it
recorded on a little tape.  I locked my door on Sundays and took the C-Train to the
mall downtown so that if they came to admonish,  I wouldn’t be home to crumble,
open the door, cry and repent.  What would I be now if I wasn’t God’s?  God was the
only one who ever died for me, though I was nothing really. He died so at least I owed
him my life, right?  I mean, how ungrateful can you get?  Who did I think I was?  Was
I something?
   My black leather jacket marched down street after street in south-west
Calgary, looking for an apartment I could afford to rent, alone.  I made my plan to
disappear.  All I needed was for someone to come along and move a great big stone
and I was free to go.  No, that was Jesus. What was I thinking?  Comparing myself to
God?  That was heresy, my life.  If you turn away, they’d told me, it’s better that you
hadn’t been born - (less than zero).
   I have two children, now that I’m thirty-five.  My daughter is eight years old,
my son, eighteen months.  I’ve lived in my grandmother’s basement for the past four
months, since someone burned our house down.  I’m separated from my husband.
“God works in mysterious ways.” someone told me recently, referring to the house
fire, the dissolution of my unhealthy marriage.  “God?” I spit back.  You think God
did this?  It hadn’t occurred to me.  
   God had plenty of opportunities with me running through thunderstorms and
hail, driving in blizzard conditions, walking home alone, late at night in the big city.
And now with nothing to do with Him in so many years, He’s making some kind of
point now?  I hadn’t considered.  Will not consider.  Refuse to consider.  In my
dreams, the faithful still scold me. “You know the Lord and you’re still...” In my
dreams, sometimes I’m still looking for a place to live as they shake their fingers,
shake their heads at me.
   I can’t imagine my daughter or my son ever standing up one day and asking
me about the meaning of life.  From what I can see, they’ve got that figured out
already.  
   About a month ago my daughter asked, “Mom, what are you going to be when
you grow up?” I’d just come home from work, tired (I teach).  I don’t know what I
answered.  But I remember that she asked again: “And what do you think I should
be?” and I told her: something, you’ll be something.  Because you are something.  I
held her.  
   She is.  I knew she was something the moment she was born, crying the
saddest song I’ve ever heard, the day she turned to me, a first grader asking: “The - I
mean, what does it mean, Mom?  The dog, the house.  The - what does it really
mean?”  And my son who plays the cold air register like a guitar and sings.  I knew he
was something the day he burst into the world without a sound, his first serious study,
my face, my husband’s and back again, my son.  We, his first subjects.   He knew he
was something too, the day he learned to run, pulled toilet paper over his shoulder and
took off down the hallway, into the living room, the roll unraveling behind him.
   My grandmother, sick, on that boat, held my mother’s hand.  I wonder how it
must have killed her to travel so far to reunite with her abusive husband, to try and
shield her children from him, lose them anyway, to their own addictions.  For years
I’ve been tracing the etymology of being zero.  
   But how can a child be zero?  My children put the lie to that notion, and yet,
we all were children; and I could string a list so long of moments, brutal moments
when I knew my existence unjustifiable.  Moments, past moments.  Now, my children
teach me, otherwise.   
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Kimberley Tobin
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« Reply #72 on: January 01, 2004, 11:19:16 pm »

Delila:

I sit here crying........reading your story.  I weep for you.  I hope you haven't lost hope.  There is hope.  God didn't reject you, he doesn't see you as a zero (or less than a zero.)  Just as you know your children will be something........that's the way he sees you.  He was the one that was always standing by you, even when the assembly tried to tell you differently.  You always "measure up" in his eyes.  Because.......when he looks at you.......he sees his son.

I hope reading here will help.  We are here for one another.
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Delila Jahn
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« Reply #73 on: January 02, 2004, 06:01:56 am »

I am far from hopless, sir.  The bible is like a vortex.  It sucks me in.  But it's too hard to untangle george from anything else.  "What did the Lord speak to you" was always the most horrible question anyone could ask me.  I gave what I thought I understood and as time went on, felt a sham myself since, unless I 'shared' like everybody else what was 'correct' then of course... well you know the rest don't you?  I have found great comfort in self esteem programs actually - as secular and reprobate as that would sound to gg. Today's lesson defined him as having a narsisstic personality disorder.  NOw, rather than using biblical name calling - does that not hit the mark.  Anyway, the big questions for me have been: how do I judge myself and by what standard am I a worthwhile person?  And the answer I arrived at today is quite apart from the bible.  It is the same conclusion I come to when I look at my kids: I am.  I loved them because they were.  Even when I knew I was first pregnant with my first child I spoke to her so honoured, even though I was a single parent at the time (god forbid!) I was so honored that she would take up residence with me.  And I've loved her because she is.  And if I am still God's child, he loves me because I am.  And no, I'm not seeking to steal Jesus' words or twist them in any way or make myself equal to him, though he did make himself equal to me didn't he?  He came, or so the bible says right?  And as time goes on, despite how I've questioned him, God doesn't seem to be offended with me either.  I am and he knows what I am.  And what peace it is that I don't have to make myself better to be acceptable to him.  Hopeless?  Not at all
delila
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Kimberley Tobin
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« Reply #74 on: January 02, 2004, 06:46:10 pm »

Delila:

I am a "mam". Wink  I enjoy reading what you have to say.  I am so glad you are not "hopeless".  I too was a single mother, so I know how you feel.
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