State of the "Ministry"

[al Hartman]

Delila,

     You are a gifted writer.  From what you have written, it is easy to believe you are much more as well.

     What you say about your children indicates that you not only have great hope for them, but that you will never give up on their behalf.  That is (as Kimberly has indicated) exactly how God looks at you.  Whether or not we give up on Him is incidental to the truth that He does not abandon us.

     It's good to have you here with us.  Please keep posting.

May 2004 be your best year yet,
al Hartman

[M2]

A not-so-dumb-blonde sister emailed me these comments:

I really don't think a lot of people - especially those that were still 'in' when the GG structure collapsed - have turned their brains on yet.  The auto pilot still flies their little engines.  So feel sorry for them, I think I do.  They're not bad people, just basically brain dead.

Do you remember, speaking from your high brow position of one of the assembly 'saints' - I know I remember saying (speaking of those outside in other gatherings) "They're walking in the light that they have" (sigh)
Now, given all the hypocricy and serious deception that was going on, tell me, what does that mean, 'they're walking in the light they have'?  And what light did we have?  Now that, that makes me want to scream like a blonde joke never did.  How about you?

Marcia

[editor]

A not-so-dumb-blonde sister emailed me these comments:

I really don't think a lot of people - especially those that were still 'in' when the GG structure collapsed - have turned their brains on yet.  The auto pilot still flies their little engines.  So feel sorry for them, I think I do.  They're not bad people, just basically brain dead.

Do you remember, speaking from your high brow position of one of the assembly 'saints' - I know I remember saying (speaking of those outside in other gatherings) "They're walking in the light that they have" (sigh)
Now, given all the hypocricy and serious deception that was going on, tell me, what does that mean, 'they're walking in the light they have'?  And what light did we have?  Now that, that makes me want to scream like a blonde joke never did.  How about you?
Marcia

The platitude, "They're just walking in the light they have," is one of the most self condemning things we used to say.  This is precisely the type of speech, and the pharisaical thinking behind it that God speaks about when He says that every idle word will be judged.  This is the measure that will be used to judge the very one who spoke it.  God have mercy!

First of all, the "They," were indeed walking in light.  The utterance of this phrase illustrates two things:

1.) We assumed that we had brighter light than our "kid" brothers.
2.) That "they" indeed had light.

Well, it turns out that we were in the dark.  We were walking away from the light we had, and into bondage and deception!  God, in His mercy, pulled some of us out kicking and screaming.   Greater light indeed!  These "kid" brothers saw right through it and rightfully thought we were whacky.

Now, as the fog has lifted, most of us are finding out that the "light" and blessing is far greater in the churches we once thought were barely saved, worldly believers who "had no vision for the house of God."

What utter nonsense.

I will cite two recent, deliciously ironic examples of how ludicrous our old way of looking at things was.

A former Geftakys member, who used to cook and clean for George and Betty, when they had to show hospitality to the African brethren, had a talent for singing.  Of course, she could never sing in "fellowship," to anywhere near the level of her talent.  Now that she attends a church where she can "walk in the light she has," she is the vocal mainstay of the worship band.  Let me tell you, when I heard her sing recently she blew the roof off the place!  She stole the show, so to speak.  I had no idea she could sing like that.

Well, this band is going to.....Kenya!  Eldoret Kenya, to be precise.  Does that name ring any bells???  They will be leading worship for 10 to 15 thousand people.  George always bragged about his missionary endeavors in Kenya, which were always greatly exagerated, if not entirely fabricated.  Now this sister, who used to cook for George's guests, in order to make him look good, is going to go to George's old missionary haunts and minister to ten's of thousands of people!  Who knows, maybe she'll even run into someone who can tell the truth about why George was rejected by most of the brethren in Kenya?  Her talent, and humility has taken her way, way beyond "The Lord's Servant," in less than a year's time!  Light indeed!

Another interesting thing.  Those of you who know Kirk Cesaretti will really appreciate this.  I spoke with him last night, and he told me this.  Kirk now has about 7 acres of land in Fortuna Ca.  On his land he has orchards, berries, a creek, goats, etc.  Well a few weeks ago, he shot a buck in his orchard, on his own property.   Those who know Kirk can rejoice in this.  For years, he was like a caged lion.  He always should have been out in nature, hunting and fishing, living on land, but he never could.  His health suffered, it was hard on his family, etc.  Now,  after a couple years of Geftakys-free living, he gets to hunt on his own property!  Clearly, God has given him the desires of his heart.  The blessing he has known in the past year is far above and beyond anything he realized in the twenty years of geftakysservice he endured.

Get out and breathe the free air!

Brent

[editor]

Another interesting thing.  Those of you who know Kirk Cesaretti will really appreciate this.  I spoke with him last night, and he told me this.  Kirk now has about 7 acres of land in Fortuna Ca.  On his land he has orchards, berries, a creek, goats, etc.  Well a few weeks ago, he shot a buck in his orchard, on his own property.   Those who know Kirk can rejoice in this.  For years, he was like a caged lion.  He always should have been out in nature, hunting and fishing, living on land, but he never could.  His health suffered, it was hard on his family, etc.  Now,  after a couple years of Geftakys-free living, he gets to hunt on his own property!  Clearly, God has given him the desires of his heart.  The blessing he has known in the past year is far above and beyond anything he realized in the twenty years of geftakysservice he endured.

Get out and breathe the free air!

Brent

I wonder if Kirk would like to get together with Steve Harris and his bow and do a 'lil hunting. I am a sloppy twenty gauger myself...

I am an above average fly-fisherman.  I tie my own flies, and only fish for native trout.  I don't get to go that often anymore, only once a year, but I still love it.  I have never wanted to hunt large mammals.

While I have no problem with the idea of shooting and eating game, the idea of field dressing a fresh kill and dragging it who knows how far, through poison oak, so far outweighs the benefit of venison in my mind that I promise I'll never do it.  Fishing is so much cleaner, and lighter.

Now, if I was hungy, and had to kill to eat....no problem.  Although, I'd probably feed myself better with a fishing pole than a rifle.  I haven't been skunked on a fishing trip in almost 20 years.

Brent

[mithrandir]

This message is for an ex-elder in Fullerton who I ran into a few weeks ago.  Our encounter was quite displeasing to me - especially your behavior.  I tried calling you to talk to you about it, but you hung up on me.  So I am posting this on the web, so that perhaps you'll hear it through the grapevine.  In fact, perhaps one or more roots from that grapevine may print this and give you a copy.

You have to understand something.  I am still quite angry about some things.  I am angry first that I was involved in a life-stealing cult for 23 years.  I am also angry about the treatment I received from the leaders of that cult, including you.  The last time we had any kind of conversation, you kept mentioning things that Steve Irons supposedly believes, as if to imply that I am no longer in the Assembly because of some newfangled teaching I received.  Let me set the record straight.  I am no longer in the Assembly because I see now that it was an abusive place, with messed-up leaders.  And I now correctly see that much of the treatment I received from the  leaders - including you -  was abusive.

In our last encounter, I had gone to the house of someone that you and I know, in order to pick up one of his kids.  You started loudly calling me while I was talking to this other person, continually interrupting us with things like, "How's it going, Clarence?"  "Keep rejoicing, Clarence!"  You could clearly see that I did not want to talk to you.  Let me tell you that the best way to start a dialogue with me is to truly repent and apologize to me for the wrongs you did to me when I was still in the Assembly.  And if you should see me in a chance encounter in the future, know this - the boorish, coarse humor and bullying tactics with which you used to relate to people when they were under your authority will no longer work with me.  Don't act that way with me - I won't put up with it.

Clarence Thompson

[M2]

Clarence,


The ex-elder loves the "loud" greeting in the public place, and behind the scenes he is full of hypocrisy and hanging up the phone on ex-assemblyites.

OR

The ex-elder was just training you to go the way of the cross. Did the "selfer's prayer" pop into your mind? He still loves you and is attempting to bring you back into the fold. He does not want you to believe Steve Irons and lose sight of the 'heavenly vision'.

About 10 months ago someone told me that the ex-leaders are soooo broken and humble. Some of them are, but when I read about things like TimG telling MarkM that they do not owe Steve and apology, I am inclined to believe otherwise about the rest of them.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[editor]

Clarence,


The ex-elder loves the "loud" greeting in the public place, and behind the scenes he is full of hypocrisy and hanging up the phone on ex-assemblyites.

OR

The ex-elder was just training you to go the way of the cross. Did the "selfer's prayer" pop into your mind? He still loves you and is attempting to bring you back into the fold. He does not want you to believe Steve Irons and lose sight of the 'heavenly vision'.

About 10 months ago someone told me that the ex-leaders are soooo broken and humble. Some of them are, but when I read about things like TimG telling MarkM that they do not owe Steve and apology, I am inclined to believe otherwise about the rest of them.

Lord bless,
Marcia

If they were broken and humble, they would say so.  They always did before.

"Oh saints, the Lord is showing me what a wretch I am!  Pray that the Lord break me, will you dear saints?"----typical LB prayer.

Now: "We weren't following a man.  We were following Christ!  EVeryone who left was following a man!"  

Yep, I see the humility and brokeness allright.

Brent

[Mark Kisla]

This message is for an ex-elder in Fullerton who I ran into a few weeks ago.  Our encounter was quite displeasing to me - especially your behavior.  I tried calling you to talk to you about it, but you hung up on me.  So I am posting this on the web, so that perhaps you'll hear it through the grapevine.  In fact, perhaps one or more roots from that grapevine may print this and give you a copy.

You have to understand something.  I am still quite angry about some things.  I am angry first that I was involved in a life-stealing cult for 23 years.  I am also angry about the treatment I received from the leaders of that cult, including you.  The last time we had any kind of conversation, you kept mentioning things that Steve Irons supposedly believes, as if to imply that I am no longer in the Assembly because of some newfangled teaching I received.  Let me set the record straight.  I am no longer in the Assembly because I see now that it was an abusive place, with messed-up leaders.  And I now correctly see that much of the treatment I received from the  leaders - including you -  was abusive.

In our last encounter, I had gone to the house of someone that you and I know, in order to pick up one of his kids.  You started loudly calling me while I was talking to this other person, continually interrupting us with things like, "How's it going, Clarence?"  "Keep rejoicing, Clarence!"  You could clearly see that I did not want to talk to you.  Let me tell you that the best way to start a dialogue with me is to truly repent and apologize to me for the wrongs you did to me when I was still in the Assembly.  And if you should see me in a chance encounter in the future, know this - the boorish, coarse humor and bullying tactics with which you used to relate to people when they were under your authority will no longer work with me.  Don't act that way with me - I won't put up with it.

Clarence Thompson

Please remember the basis on which they secured permission to abuse you was convincing you to extend them the grace and trust due a genuine brother in Christ. That faulty assupmtion has led to untold misery for countless individuals.
Why on earth don't we simply read and believe our Bibles??!!!

Verne

Clarence,
I agree with your statements  of "life stealing cult"and "it was a abusive place, with messed up leaders". Thank God we can call it for what it really was. Could you imagine being a parent, with the truth of the assembly exposed, now leading your children to a life of abuse by embracing and participating in the false teachings of the assembly.
Yes the assembly was "life stealing", why ? because it's leadership interfered with with the personal leading of God in the lives of individuals by limiting God to the confines of the assembly.
Were the leaders "messed up" ? absolutely, because they limited God in their own personal lives to the confines of the assembly.
How did they get away with it ? I agree with Verne, by "convincing you to extend them the grace and trust due a genuine brother in Christ"
George groomed his leadership to be a bunch of 'Charlie the tunas'

[BeckyW]

Just a thought, Clarence- the boorish, coarse humor and bullying tactics exhibited by this brother seem to be evidence of the impact and imprint left on his life by his main spiritual influence.  Was he a disciple of George's, or one of George's main men?  Was he taught by word,  deed & example that this sort of rude behavior is good and godly?  It sounds like common assembly condescension to me.  I think I used to see this as 'bold'.  
I'm glad you don't have to suffer it in silence.  The intimidation factor is gone.  

Becky

[al Hartman]

Just a thought, Clarence- the boorish, coarse humor and bullying tactics exhibited by this brother seem to be evidence of the impact and imprint left on his life by his main spiritual influence.  Was he a disciple of George's, or one of George's main men?  Was he taught by word,  deed & example that this sort of rude behavior is good and godly?  It sounds like common assembly condescension to me.  I think I used to see this as 'bold'.  
I'm glad you don't have to suffer it in silence.  The intimidation factor is gone.  

Becky

     Clarence's original description made me think at once of GG himself.  No question as to the source of inspiration toward such behavior...

[Mark C.]

You have to understand something.  I am still quite angry about some things.  I am angry first that I was involved in a life-stealing cult for 23 years.  I am also angry about the treatment I received from the leaders of that cult, including you.
Clarence Thompson

Dear Clarence,
   I have been sitting here trying to figure out what I could possibly say to help you, and others who are feeling this same way, but all my thoughts sound so inadequate.  What can one say to someone who has been in "a life stealing cult for 23 years"?
   I can say I know how you feel: the deep sense of loss and the anger as a result, but I know that is small comfort.  Or maybe I could say that in time you will feel better, but that doesn't help with the angry feelings you have right now.
   Lectures on "forgiveness" or avoiding "bitterness" are like rubbing salt into a wound and are worse than no good in such a situation.  We have talked about this before on the BB and understand that God is angry when those who claim to represent Him presume to control our lives to meet their own needs.  No, lectures to those abused is not what is necessary; what is needed is for these former leaders to confess their part in the GG organization and to repent.
   One thing the Lord told the persecuted Saints in Rev.(and this is a fearful thing if former leaders are indeed reading here) and that is he does hear the cries of his abused children!  He does say that vengeance belongs to Him.
   It has taken me a long time to write this, as I wish that I could find the words to comfort you, and I know there are no easy answers.   I weep with you brother, and I want you to know that I am your friend.  I also believe that Jesus weeps for you and wants to be a comfort to you as well.
   I think the Lord might say something to you like, "I understand your feelings and I am able to take your great loss and turn it into something of great beauty and blessing for others."  God wrote such things in His word long before there was any Assembly and though the Assembly twisted these things they never had the power to corrupt the truth of God's love for His children.  Nor, is there a wound so bad that Jesus can not heal it and I am praying that all who are so hurt put their trust in that truth.
   I have heard that some of these leaders are broken men now and have forsaken the ways of GG.  Why are they broken?  Is it because they no longer have "a place" of power and are just plain old people again?  Those truly broken will have God's heart for those who were damaged in the Assembly and will do everthing in their power to make things right.  The same God who judged the Assembly last year is not now turning a blind eye to those who are avoiding an honest confession and a clear repentance.
                               God bless, Mark C.

[Oscar]

Regarding the former leaders of the assembly,

Some of us, who are former leaders of the very long gone class, have done a lot more thinking about what is wrong with the assembly's teachings and ways than these guys have.

A few months back I spent an evening talking to a former LB/worker.  He was still concerned about "open ministry", head coverings, pastors and so on.

In other words, the boy has been taken out of the assembly, but not the assembly out of the boy.

We of the "very long gone" class left because WE had changed.   These guys are out because their CIRCUMSTANCES had changed.

We don't know what they think these days since we don't hear from them.  Clarence's recent experience seems to show that in some cases at least, not much has changed.

Thomas Maddux

[d3z]

Recent conversations that I have had have led me to believe, for many, it is very much as you say.  People have been taken out of the assembly, but not the assembly out of them.

I think this is "easier" for those who left before the collapse.  In order to leave, you had to, at least in some way, convince yourself of things wrong with the assembly.  For many, what I read indicates that the collapse has just helped reinforce this possibly small realization.

For those that had the assembly taken away from them, the thoughts are still very muddled.  When we were "in", these ideas and concepts were burned in so deeply.  And, they were emphasized, by much repitition, and vague support of the scriptures.  Most of the preaching was supposed to be about the heavenly vision.  That is, after all, when a brother could move up to preaching for longer periods of time--a deeper understanding of the heavenly vision.

I wish I had a better answer, although, I think prayer is a good one.  I'm kind of torn between just wanting to get on with life, my new church; and trying to maintain contacts with those from before.  There is just that feeling that somehow, something I say or do will help someone.

There are others that are encouraging, though.  I was at some kind of even with someone who was involved here before.  Someone asked how we knew each other, and she replied, "We were in that same cult together."  It is how she had previously answered questions about her past "church".

Dave Brown

[vernecarty]

Regarding the former leaders of the assembly,

We of the "very long gone" class left because WE had changed.   These guys are out because their CIRCUMSTANCES had changed.

Most insightful!

A man convinced against his will
Is of the same opinion still

We don't know what they think these days since we don't hear from them.  Clarence's recent experience seems to show that in some cases at least, not much has changed.

My thinking about this is somewhat different Tom. I am of the opinion that their silence speaks volumes...

You have to understand something.  I am still quite angry about some things.  I am angry first that I was involved in a life-stealing cult for 23 years.  I am also angry about the treatment I received from the leaders of that cult, including you.
Clarence Thompson

Dear Clarence,
   I have been sitting here trying to figure out what I could possibly say to help you, and others who are feeling this same way, but all my thoughts sound so inadequate.  What can one say to someone who has been in "a life stealing cult for 23 years"?
   I can say I know how you feel:

Contrary to what some foolish and confused individuals would try to tell us regarding such nonsense as "unconditional forgiveness", and ascribe feelings of "bitterness" to the justifiable moral outrage so many of us feel over what happened in the assemblies, the Bible presents for our consideration and meditation the imprecatory Psalms. Why do you think these Psalms are in the Bible?
Did not Almighty God envision that in the life of His loved ones, there would be such times when the oppressed and dispairing soul would cry out to Him that He would requite the doings of wicked men? yes wicked!
It is perfectly legitimate for Christians to apply the imprecatory Psalms as a spiritual salve for the wounds inflicted by the ungodly. This is why they were included in the Canon!
Is He not also a God of justice? Appreciation of this simple truth was seriously damaged by the false teaching with whcih many were inculcated duirng their assembly sojourn. They would have you believe that it was never apporpriate to take umbrage at the conduct of anyone in leadership, no matter how reprehensible! Think about it!!
I would recommend that Clarence spend some time reflectively reading these amazing works and he will find sweet fellowship with godly men of old who also suffered...



Remember this, that the enemy has reproached, O Lord, and that the foolish people have blashphemed Thy Name.
O deliver not the soul of the turtledove unto the multitude of the wicked: forget not the congregation of Thy poor forever.
Have respect unto the convenant, for the dark places if the earth are full of the habitations of cruelty.
O let not the oppressed return ashamed: let the poor and needy praise Thy Name.
Arise O God, plead Thine own cause: remember how the  foolish man reproacheth Thee daily.
Forget not the voice of Thine enemies: the tumult of those that rise up against Thee continually.
Psalm 74: 19-24

Verne

[summer007]

Clarence,  Consider the Source....that always helps!!! I heard a message about the Body of Crist while some are Loud and Showy some are hidden away ..These are the Vital Organs that sustain the Body..I think in the Assembly they were so into the Fair Show in the Flesh and what could be seen..That they crushed and amputated their VITAL ORGANS the very things that gave them Life...Sad but true ....Remember God SO LOVES Us He Gave His Son to be with US...I would definetly CAST this one on HIM....and Look at HIS GRACE AND TRUTH!!!!I know easier said then done...with all the Clanging Gongs and NOisy Cymbels sounding around you....Peace-Out!!!!!