I still have questions: Q1 "Will I go to heaven?"

[Arthur]

I still have a lot of questions after leaving the ga.  I may be asking some questions as if I'm a newbie, but I dare say that we all have doubts or puzzle about something at one time or another.

So here's one,

I think that I will go to heaven, but I want to be sure.  Answer me just one question:  

Does anything or everything that I do here on earth either affect or give indication of my status in heaven?

In other words, does was I do here on earth determine whether I will go to heaven or not?  And if it is heaven that I'm going to, will what I do here on earth determine how much I will enjoy it?
What if I take the mark?  What if I deny Jesus before men? etc.


Arthur

[editor]

Arthur

God soveriegnly chooses those who will "go to heaven."

I think there is plain evidence that you are one of the elect, so according to Romans 8, there is no condemnation and nothing that can seperate you from Him.

What you do on earth is not a pre-requisite to heaven, but only a result of being saved.

We are saved by grace, through faith, and that not of ourselves, it is a gift of God.

Brent

[Arthur]

So does that mean it doesn't matter how I live?  Is it ok for me to play video games instead of reading my Bible?  What if I take the mark?  What if I go bad and have only just been acting fairly good up till now because of my upbringing?  Will that show that I never was saved in the first place?

[editor]

So does that mean it doesn't matter how I live?  Is it ok for me to play video games instead of reading my Bible?  What if I take the mark?  What if I go bad and have only just been acting fairly good up till now because of my upbringing?  Will that show that I never was saved in the first place?

Arthur,

You do play video games, and when doing so, you are not reading your Bible.  I still think you're saved, in spite of this gross sin.

I don't think you will take the mark, either.  I think this for a number of reasons, but hopefully we won't be around to worry about it.

I don't think you are going to go bad, either.  If a person was to bolt from under the facade of Christian behavior at a young age, and rebel, I still wouldn't write them off, unless they never professed Christ, and were actively denying him.  We may wander, but we have a faithful savior.

Personally, I subscribe to the "P" in TULIP.  I do believe that the saints will persevere in holiness, as you are my friend.  We aren't fooled by you, we know you love the Lord and that He is still the main pursuit of your life.

Brent

[Arthur]

I don't think you will take the mark, either.  I think this for a number of reasons, but hopefully we won't be around to worry about it.

What if I get a GPS in my car...or a computer chip implanted under my skin?

Personally, I subscribe to the "P" in TULIP.  I do believe that the saints will persevere in holiness, as you are my friend.  We aren't fooled by you, we know you love the Lord and that He is still the main pursuit of your life.

Brent

Awhh, thanks man    Sometimes I wonder about myself.  Do I have a higher standard for myself than God?  I thought his was perfection?  Thank God for Jesus the mediator.  But sometimes I wonder about my level of commitment and devotion to him.

Arthur

[Arthur]

What if the prodigal son had died in the pig pen?
Would he have been a dead pig...?!
Think about it...
Verne

I'm thinking about it...and I still don't get it.  What does that mean?

[editor]

I don't think you will take the mark, either.  I think this for a number of reasons, but hopefully we won't be around to worry about it.

What if I get a GPS in my car...or a computer chip implanted under my skin?

Personally, I subscribe to the "P" in TULIP.  I do believe that the saints will persevere in holiness, as you are my friend.  We aren't fooled by you, we know you love the Lord and that He is still the main pursuit of your life.

Brent

Awhh, thanks man    Sometimes I wonder about myself.  Do I have a higher standard for myself than God?  I thought his was perfection?  Thank God for Jesus the mediator.  But sometimes I wonder about my level of commitment and devotion to him.

Arthur

Arthur, are you looking for negative "karma" points or something?  Quit focusing on your committment level and think about His.  Jesus was quite committed to you, because He knew you were not up to the task, and never would be.

Same deal with me.  Isn't it great that we aren't responsible for our own salvation?  Worse yet, aren't you glad that it isn't up to me to persuade you to get saved?  How hopeless would that be?  I am glad that God is the one who chooses.

Choose some more Lord!

Brent

[Arthur]

Arthur, are you looking for negative "karma" points or something?  

Oh no, not that!  Someone gave me negative point #2 the other day  I think it was Matt, heh  No offense, Matt.  

BTW, I just gave you another +.

Quit focusing on your committment level and think about His.  Jesus was quite committed to you, because He knew you were not up to the task, and never would be.

Yah, yah, it's just this whinny, nagging fear in the back of my...consciousness.  Needs to be overcome, no doubt, by a few sp's or hm's or maybe I'll just say "Boo!"
Heh--"I believe, I believe, I believe!"  >_<   Am I there yet?  

Choose some more Lord!

Spurgeon?

[Kimberley Tobin]

This was one of the wonderful things about leaving the assembly was having this question answered once and for all (by the scriptures).

First, let me say, I believe absolutely, if you have professed Christ as your savior, you are going to heaven....no ifs ands or buts.   Assurance of salvation is one of the foundational principles that any church will want to address with newly saved men and women.  Why?  Because if anything is dependent on you..............works............than you will be on a yo-yo, roller coaster all of your christian life.  Why?  Because we are sinners.  We are not perfect and especially, the longer we walk with the Lord, the more aware we are of our sinfullness.

GG taught that salvation was all of grace............but salvation was just "mere salvation" (to quote GG from his many seminars.)  The real work is "justification".  This is where GG would teach that justification was what would gain you the inheritance.  And it was what you "did" that would "justify" you.  This is where most of us would miserably fail.  Why?  Because the longer we walked with the Lord, we realized just how sinful and imperfect we were and that we couldn't measure up and then we would start doubting whether or not we were being "justified".  It was a vicous circle.

What is the truth?  IT IS ALL OF GOD!  Remember what Christ said on the cross?  "It is finished."  It is HIS work on the cross that I am depending on to change me or do anything in my life.  I am NOT depending on myself.  I will fail, miserably, everytime I depend on myself.  When I depend on HIS WORK, than I am resting in Him.  I don't have to perform for Him.  He doesn't want it!  Remember what he said about our works?  They are but filthy rags to Him.  When I rest in Him and I acknowledge my inability, my sinfulness, He does a tremendous work of transformation in my life.  Because it is of FAITH, that it might be by GRACE, remember?

Of course GG would cite the book of James, without works faith is dead, right?  Well, he is putting the cart before the horse.  It is not my works that will produce my faith (or justification).  It is my faith in HIM AND HIS WORK that will produce the works.  

My husband and I have been a living testimony of this practically for the last seven months ever since leaving the assembly.  Try walking this way.  It is liberating.  And then, you experience the fruits of the spirit:  joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, meekness, self-control, etc. (something that I always lacked greatly in my assembly days and couldn't figure out why!!!!!!)

Arthur - great question.  Rest in Him and Enjoy Life (which is HIM, remember, He is the Life.)

[editor]

GG's "salvation" was like this:

Your life is a big open field, that has been paved over.  It has been used as a dumping ground for the world. God wants it to be broken up, plowed and planted in order to have it bear fruit, one-hundred fold.

Grace is like a big Home Depot, with a Farm Supply attached, and everything there has already been paid for.

You need only walk into home depot, get shovels, rakes, tractors, seeds, tools, supplies, etc.  and get to work! You will have to work hard, but it would impossible if it were not for Jesus buying all the tools.  He has made all provision, but it is up to you to avail yourself of His provision.

It's all of grace, in that the tools were paid for by Jesus, but it's all of works, in that God wants a return on his investment in the tools.  

You guys better get busy, because someday Jesus is going to ask you to give account for what you did with His grace.  His grace obligates our works, because we owe Him!

My oh my is it ever sick!  If anyone reading this doesn't understand, please chime in, as this is totally important!

Brent

[MGov]

Arthur,
...
I don't think you are going to go bad, either.  If a person was to bolt from under the facade of Christian behavior at a young age, and rebel, I still wouldn't write them off, unless they never professed Christ, and were actively denying him.  We may wander, but we have a faithful savior.

Brent

What about someone like GG who has not repented yet?  How can you be sure that he ever will?

...
You guys better get busy, because someday Jesus is going to ask you to give account for what you did with His grace.  His grace obligates our works, because we owe Him!

My oh my is it ever sick!  If anyone reading this doesn't understand, please chime in, as this is totally important!

Brent

I understood it to be His grace/love compels us to works.  I missed the 'we owe Him' part.
Works because of faith.
Does the parable of the talents tie in with this?

M

[al Hartman]

Sometimes I wonder about myself.  Do I have a higher standard for myself than God?  I thought his was perfection?  Thank God for Jesus the mediator.  But sometimes I wonder about my level of commitment and devotion to him.

Arthur

     Well, Arthur, you've summed it up pretty well here all by yourself.  God's standard IS perfection!  And consciously or subconsciously you ARE demanding that of yourself.  So, as you say, "Thank God for Jesus the Mediator."  Because Jesus MET God's standard!  For US!  It was HIS "level of commitment and devotion" that satisfied God's requirements ONCE AND FOR ALL TIME.  In Him all the law and the prophets are fulfilled.  All we have to do is to believe it, and He even provides us the Grace with which to do that.  A pretty complete package, don't you think?
     Now, i'll go way out on a limb here, and tell you that NO, we aren't going to go to heaven, for the one simple reason that we are already there:
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ...
...in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
...that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints.  And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:  And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all...
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
(Ephesians 1:3,13-14,18-23; 2:4-7)
     Take note of the PRESENT TENSE:  Christ IS seated at God's right hand, far above all, and WE ARE seated THERE together IN HIM.  Look again at 1:3:  It's a done deal!
     It may sound like all theory, but that's because while we are spiritually united with Christ on an eternal plane, our sin-toxified bodies (in which dwell our brains) have not yet been redeemed.  They are indwelt by the Holy Spirit, as the down payment (earnest) of OUR inheritance of Christ, which will be fully realized when we receive our new, glorified bodies, no longer to feel the tug of sin.
     But it isn't even about that.  Look again at 1:18, and see that the real focus is the hope of HIS calling and the riches of the glory of HIS inheritance IN THE SAINTS.  Who could rob the Son of God of HIS inheritance?  And His inheritance IS US!  We are permanently locked into eternal oneness with Jesus Christ.  
     And those works you're concerned about doing...  You're doing them.  One of them was starting this thread.  Besides getting answers for yourself, you have opened a whole path of instruction for many of us who need to learn these truths.  (i have been blessed by the whole thread so far).
     Your doubts, Arthur, are natural.  But your assurances are SUPERNATURAL:  the immutable promises of Almighty God.  Even you and i can't undo that!

al Hartman

[Mark Kisla]

[quote author=al Hartman  places in Christ...
...in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
(Ephesians 1:3,13-14,18-23; 2:4-7)[/b]
     Take note of the PRESENT TENSE:   WE ARE seated THERE together IN HIM.  Look again at 1:3:  It's a done deal!
       Who could rob the Son of God of HIS inheritance?  And His inheritance IS US!  

Al,
You made my Day with this.
Thanks Bro
Mark

[Joe Sperling]

Al---

Thanks so much for that Scripture--Eph. 1:3--I know that
has always been one of your favorite Scriptures of all.
I don;t know whether you remember or not, but when I was severely depressed and living in your house you gave me a little picture picture frame on a little stand---and you had hand written that verse (Eph 1:3) within the frame.

I always remembered that and did treasure it. There is another verse and I'll paraphrase because I'm not sure if I have it memorized correctly which seems to say the same thing:  Col. 3:1-4

"If ye then be risen with Christ seek those things which are above where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.
Set your affections on things above and not on the things of the earth.
For ye are dead, and your lives are HID WITH CHRIST IN GOD.
When Christ who is our life shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in Glory."

Thanks again Al.   --Joe

[Arthur]

My husband and I have been a living testimony of this practically for the last seven months ever since leaving the assembly.  Try walking this way.  It is liberating.  And then, you experience the fruits of the spirit:  joy, peace, gentleness, kindness, meekness, self-control, etc. (something that I always lacked greatly in my assembly days and couldn't figure out why!!!!!!)

Thank you for the reasurance, Kimberley.  

Arthur