WOUNDED PILGRIMS

[al Hartman]

Hi Mark,

Sometimes I think your road trips are even longer for us who await your next installment than they are for you & your family.  (Not really, but it can seem that way )

Differences of opinion can indeed be healthy, but also may not, depending upon how they are regarded.  In the case of this topic, I think most of the differences expressed have demonstrated eyes set upon the same Goal, but seeing and approaching it from different perspectives.

Your points re: the heart and its function are well taken, and I do not mean to in any way compromise them, but hope to augment them with a couple of observations:

You said:

   The bible must be read and understood or we can subject ourselves to deception from those wishing to mislead us (chief possibly being our own fallen nature).  There are no subjective/intuitive "4th dimensions of revelation" that God has provided.  Objective Bible learning protects us from the arrogancy of a "higher spiritual experience" that pretends a "special" intimacy with God.

  Knowing this, and fearing our own depraved intuition, we can get into an attitude of, at best, ignoring our feelings, or at worst, a deep denial of their presence.

   ...to which I add a hearty "Amen!" and further comment that to give free reign to our emotions (which is what many of those do, who engage in what they believe to be, as you aptly term it, "a higher spiritual experience," is an equally great danger.

The passage you chose in Phil.4 is excellent for not only highlighting the importance of the heart, but, in its context it illustrates our Lord's intent toward our hearts, and His capability to fulfill His intent:

4. Rejoice in the Lord always, and again I say, Rejoice.

5. Let your moderation be known to all men.  The Lord is at hand.

6. Be careful (anxious) for nothing; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.

7. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, shall keep (guard) your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

8. Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any virtue, and if there is any praise, think on these things.

9. Those things, which you have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.


Three important points re: the above passage:

a.]  It is not preaching works-based rewards.  The point is not at all that we must do certain things, or put on a performance, in order to earn our rewards.  Far from it!  Those blessings we gain are not our rewards, but the rewards for the faithfulness of Jesus Christ in all His life, suffering, death, burial, resurrection and ascension, and they have already been awarded to us.  He earned them, and we are the recipients of them according to His grace.  But, working out (not working for) our salvation (Phil.2:12-13), is the principle by which we will realize (enjoy) these benefits in a practical way.  His work in earning them is finished, and these benefits are ours, but to see them we must walk in them.

Put another way, the peace of God that will guard our hearts and minds is in place, i.e., is in effect, for all of His redeemed, but can only be of practical value to those who acknowledge, accept, and act upon it.  The God of peace is with us all, but His presence will only be enjoyed by those who engage ourselves with Him.

b].  As you said:

   The bible must be read and understood...

So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing (comes) by the Word of God. Rom.10:17.  We will not (will not be able to) walk in the ways of God unless we know them, and we will not know them except by the words of the scriptures.  Does this mean we must read the Bible?  No.  But if we hope to enjoy the benefits of our redemption in this lifetime, if we want answers to our questions and our dilemmas, if we want to experience that "peace of God and know the presence with us of "the God of peace," we will cry out to Him to create in us the hunger for His Word that we lack.  And He will answer...

c.]  There is nothing we who are burdened in our hearts for others can do to help them except to pray constantly on their behalf and to speak the truth to them in love.  There are, to be certain, ways and techniques to present the truth, but our methodology is not guaranteed-- only the Word of God and the Spirit of God never fail.  Our speech, our phraseology, may fail-- His Word and His Love do not.

There is no one-size-fits-all plan or program for presenting the truth; no way by which we can "make" someone see the light.  Our straining, our pain, our tears are all of value to the Lord, but don't expect  those over whose well-being we expend them to be influenced by us.  The only influence that can help them is that of God's Word by His Holy Spirit.  And we must not wish or hope for it to be otherwise.

Now, I don't think I have contradicted Mark's points in any way, but I sometimes muddy the waters in trying to clarify them.  Mark always delights me by providing what my shortfalls omit and counter-balancing my excesses.

Mark, we need for you to have longer weekends...

In Christ,
al

[Mark C.]

Faith and emotions cont.

  ----no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.  They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.  Having lost all sensitivity----- Eph. 4:17-19.

  The words/phrases that stick out to me re. our topic are "thinking, understanding, ignorance, hardening of their hearts, and sensitivity."

    In Eph 5: 18-19 we are given this exhortation:

      ----instead, be filled with the Spirit.  Speak to one another with psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs.  Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,----   [/u]

   It is not my purpose to attempt a thorough exegesis of these verses, just to notice that the word "heart" is again used alongside words that describe mental activity.  This seems to demonstrate that the two need to work together in some way.

  In the Eph 5 verses the process for "the filling of the Spriit" leans toward a more subjective method in it's description.  It doesn't, for example, promote study of doctrine as a means to become filled with the Spirit (not that this is bad; it's just not mentioned).  What do you think it means when it says, "sing and make music in your heart to the Lord"?

  I want to try and bring this thought back to the issue of recovery for those wounded in the Assembly.  In the Assembly the Christian life was strongly set forth as the need for us to perform as individuals in order to merit God's favor.  This teaching directed the "serious Christian" to "reckon dead" their own person.  

   This "death" wasn't just for sinful behaviors, but what GG considered "self centered" behaviors.  This meant we must seek to be "nothing" and gain all our emotional delight from achieving this state of being.

   All our passions were to be extinguished, our ambitions set aside, our desires made subservient to the ministry, and any normal affections for family, etc. to be eliminated.  

   Decades of this is toxic for one's faith, and detrimental to the development of a healthy life in Christ.  

   Upon leaving many of us learn that the Christian life is not a merit scheme, but a gift based relationship with God.  The teaching of grace broke upon my understanding within the first months of leaving, but I discovered that my emotions did not easily follow what I now knew to be true.

  As an example, I felt guilty about just going to the beach with my family.  There was no good reason for the guilt, but yet I still had it.  I also had a feeling of empty drifiting at times--- a life without any real purpose--- kind of like those let out of a prison camp, who are free, but don't know how to adjust emotionally to their new life outside of the whole regimen, and with all it's controls.

  You could have told me, "Brother, just find a healthy church and make some new friends and you will be okay", but I didn't find a church that could help, because not only could they not understand what I had been through, they didn't know how to help me with my emotional struggles.

  Finding those that would listen to me, understood how I felt, and had been through similar things was absolutely crucial to my recovery.  Empathy is a sensitivity to the pain another individual is feeling, and part of what the NT means when it says, "weep with those that weep."  

  I had unwavering faith in God, I didn't doubt him, but I began to doubt my own sanity!  My emotions did not follow my faith automatically, nor could I just shrug off my heart sickness via the exercise of my volition.

  It is to "heart sickness" and "damaged emotions" that I will continue with in the next post.  I will just say now that we have to learn to "make music in our hearts", along with understanding grace, if we are going to move on to recovery.

                                               God Bless,  Mark C.

  

  

[al Hartman]

Mark,

Once again, I pose a contrast to your thoughts, not in opposition to them, but to illustrate how different our experiences, the effects of the assembly upon us, have been.  All the wounded pilgrims out there are not just like you or me, but are individuals every one.  So if someone is reading this thread and thinking that solutions are being offered here that don't apply to them, I hope they will take heart and realize that God sees them as they really are, and not as you or I may perceive them to be (i.e., like ourselves), and that they will post their questions, or e-mail them to us, but above all, not be discouraged because they don't "get" what you or I are saying...

Faith and emotions cont.

  I want to try and bring this thought back to the issue of recovery for those wounded in the Assembly.  In the Assembly the Christian life was strongly set forth as the need for us to perform as individuals in order to merit God's favor.  This teaching directed the "serious Christian" to "reckon dead" their own person.  

   This "death" wasn't just for sinful behaviors, but what GG considered "self centered" behaviors.  This meant we must seek to be "nothing" and gain all our emotional delight from achieving this state of being.

   All our passions were to be extinguished, our ambitions set aside, our desires made subservient to the ministry, and any normal affections for family, etc. to be eliminated.  

   Decades of this is toxic for one's faith, and detrimental to the development of a healthy life in Christ.  

We all sat under essentially the same teachings, restrictions and controls, and we were all wounded thereby, but in varying degrees and not all with the same effects.  We were not all alike when we entered the assembly, being of different backgrounds, temperaments, etc., we did not all stay for the same length of time, we were not all treated alike, and we were not all in the same state of mind and heart when we left.

  Upon leaving many of us learn that the Christian life is not a merit scheme, but a gift based relationship with God.  The teaching of grace broke upon my understanding within the first months of leaving, but I discovered that my emotions did not easily follow what I now knew to be true.

  As an example, I felt guilty about just going to the beach with my family.  There was no good reason for the guilt, but yet I still had it.  I also had a feeling of empty drifiting at times--- a life without any real purpose--- kind of like those let out of a prison camp, who are free, but don't know how to adjust emotionally to their new life outside of the whole regimen, and with all it's controls.

After leaving, I learned various things, few of which had much positive impact on my spiritual life, for many years.  I, too, experienced much guilt, but probably diffently oriented than was yours, Mark.  I felt my life had a lot of purpose, focused on helping others, but without any clear reference to Christ-- more of a humanistic/tolerant-of-all approach.

 You could have told me, "Brother, just find a healthy church and make some new friends and you will be okay", but I didn't find a church that could help, because not only could they not understand what I had been through, they didn't know how to help me with my emotional struggles.

I couldn't find a helpful church, because I couldn't find a replacement for the assembly.  I hadn't left because I realized the assembly was wrong, but because the assembly dumped me.  I thought the assembly was right and I was wrong.  That may place me in a minority, but I am not alone.  I have good friends with whom I communicate regularly, who were in the assembly for decades and only recently left because of the fall of the leadership, but who still believe in the assembly vision of the house of God.  Their experience and outlook is not similar to anything I have seen expressed on the website or this board, but they are Christ's own and they have distinctive needs that are unaddressed by any all-inclusive concept of how to treat "wounded pilgrims."

 Finding those that would listen to me, understood how I felt, and had been through similar things was absolutely crucial to my recovery.  Empathy is a sensitivity to the pain another individual is feeling, and part of what the NT means when it says, "weep with those that weep."  

It took me many years to begin to realize that I was in need of "recovery."  I have never really felt a need for my experiences to be understood by others.  I am big on empathy (on both giving and receiving it), but have never felt that receiving it was crucial to me.  I believe that my empathy toward others cannot directly benefit them, but can help me to pray more effectively and to minister with sensitivity toward them.

 I had unwavering faith in God, I didn't doubt him, but I began to doubt my own sanity!  My emotions did not follow my faith automatically, nor could I just shrug off my heart sickness via the exercise of my volition.

My faith in God has wavered a lot in the past, after leaving the assembly, and at one time or another I have doubted just about everything about God, Christ, the Bible, the Holy Spirit, and all things Christian.  I have seldom known a time when I did not doubt my own sanity.  During that time, heart-sickness was a part of my being, and the exercise of my volition amounted to very little.

 It is to "heart sickness" and "damaged emotions" that I will continue with in the next post.  I will just say now that we have to learn to "make music in our hearts", along with understanding grace, if we are going to move on to recovery.

                                               God Bless,  Mark C.

I look forward, as always, to your ensuing posts on this thread, Mark.  I am particularly intrigued as to your thoughts on our singing and making music in our hearts to the Lord, and on speaking to each other in psalms, hymns and spiritual songs, as I have not previously given much consideration to these things...

In Christ,
al

  

  

[M2]

Hi Al,

Our experiences varied, yet they were similar, even very similar to other than Geftaky-assembly spiritually abusive churches.

IMO  and generally speaking, most ex-assemblyites fall into 2 categories as to their spiritual state at point of departure.

1.  Those who left realizing that the system was corrupt, or soon realized after leaving that it was corrupt, were then able to re-educate themselves re. spiritual matters.  God sent them ahead to prepare the way for those of us who would be needing guidance later.

2.  Those who left because of the excessive demands of the system, not fully realizing that the system was corrupt, thought that they were leaving the one true vision and struggled with that dilemna, until the opportunity to discuss with those from category 1 above presented itself via this BB.  Then things clicked into place and we could all settle the issue that we had not indeed left the one true vision, but had left a spiritually abusive system.

God bless,
Marcia

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!

  Thanks for the help Steve.  I think it best to just try and post on this thread for now, vs. the split thread I messed up on.  When I have the time I'll try to go back and fix things.

  Verne:  Yes, there is a "dark side" in everyone of us, but it seems to my reading of the NT that GG's "higher path", because it is based on a dishonest view of one's inner struggles against sin, makes for a great deal of confusion.

  Part of what I hope to do here is to show that we can find a harmony between our thinking and feeling (making music in our hearts?).  I have shared numerous verses that declare that our Christian experience needs to be both "mind" and "heart" and that faith is not just pure reason acted on by the force of our own wills.

  So, the verses in Eph. 5:18-20 were alluded to in a previous post, and though there is much that I do not understand here, I think we can find some clear concepts that support my contentions.

  Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery.  Instead, be filled with the Spirit. Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs.  Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1.) Getting drunk and being filled with the Spirit are contrasted with one another:  The point here is that the Spirit should control our lives; both inner and outer.

2.) The result of the Spirit's control is exemplified in a particular kind of spiritual activity that is musical in nature.
   Music/poetry appeals more to a kind of thinking that is also deeply felt; it is designed to stir an emotional response.  Some examples of this would be: Awe, love, thankfullness, etc.

   This might at first glance seem to support the Assembly notion of "hearing God's voice" only in devotional style reading, and the avoidance of "dead fundamentalism" styled study of the Bible.

   In the commentary that I've read on the above verse the singing is not the means to be filled, but the result.  In the Assembly, and other groups, the means to be filled is through the activity of devotion.

 This is an important distinction because understanding how God fills us prevents the errors that Tom feared of relating to God through only what we feel like, or can work up inside of us.

  My point from these verses is that a Spirit filled person will have emotional strength.  This inner strength results in a heart that can make music.

               More on what that might mean later------

                                             God Bless,  Mark C.

 

[vernecarty]

Hi Everyone!

 
  Verne:  Yes, there is a "dark side" in everyone of us, but it seems to my reading of the NT that GG's "higher path", because it is based on a dishonest view of one's inner struggles against sin, makes for a great deal of confusion.


                                             God Bless,  Mark C.

It may surprise some people to hear me say that I do not believe there was anything wrong with the standard GG upheld rhetotically. We should aspire to true holiness.
What was frightfully wrong was the way he taught this standard is realized.
Worse, was his unspeakable hypocrisy.
The fact of the matter is, many of us have learned over the years, that the Spirit of God does indeed have the power to turn our darkness into light.
Those of us who fail to adorn the doctrine in this regard, are nothing but awful blasphemers when we start preaching at other people, myself included. Thanks for your comments Mark; looking forward to your next posts.
Verne

[Mark C.]

Verne,

  It doesn't surprise me that you believe in the biblical standard for holiness, but GG's rhetoric re. this can only be understood in light of what he actually did in the control of the group.

  Even before we discovered his "hidden" hypocrisy there was his extra-biblical interpretation of what it meant to "adorn the doctrine of God."

  In the Assembly, the most holy thing you could do was to be loyal to GG's ministry and practice "faithfullness" to the group. 

  Quite literally, you could be a child molestor, but if loyal to GG could have the whole matter swept under the rug!  If this isn't a definition of moral confusion I don't know what is!

   Another aspect of Assembly false holiness is the dishonesty that I mentioned in my last post.  In Mt. 23, where Jesus is very critical of the Jewish religious leaders of his day, there are many "woes" listed that describe false holiness, but the oft repeated word of "hypocrisy" is the central denunciation of Jesus in that passage.

  It is easy, if we are striving to live up to a standard, to ignore our own inconsistencies.  The bible says that "I am a new creation in Christ," and therefore there is sometimes an expectation that God's new life in me should banish all sin.

  While that work has begun in my life, it is wrong to expect perfection.  I believe in the traditional Reformation view of Rom. 7 that Paul, when talking about the struggle with the old man, is discussing his life as a Christian at that moment.  Paul was brutally honest about his own inner frustrations in the living of the Christian life.

  This kind of humility and honesty is the foundation for true holiness.  GG saw this as a kind of "defeatism" that excused one from talking responsibility for their own decisions and actions.  In reality, it is the narrow way that leads to life.

  Some of the Jewish Christians of Paul's day agreed with GG and saw grace as an excuse for failure, or an attempt to gain victim status.  They were strenuous in their belief that their own strength of determination could make them "better" Christians.  No "Chocolate Christians" for this bunch!!!

  Paul talked quite a bit about "the strong" and "the weak" in his letters.  He recognized that there will be those who have a stronger natural volition, as opposed to those who have weaker wills.  He primarily exhorts "the strong" to be very careful in how they treat their weaker brethren---" Destroy not your brother for whom Christ died---!"

  The above dynamic in the church creates an opportunity for the development of what the bible describes as the true character of holiness:  Love.

  GG pitted his strong followers against the weak in the group and thus well earned the title as a church that abuses.  As Paul warned, this is very destructive!  GG openly despised the weak and ridiculed those who could not keep up with his intense requirements.

  There are those who disagree with the whole notion of "Wounded Pilgrims' as an unhealthy preoccupation with an attempt to claim victim status as a means to avoid responsibility for their actions.  "If I can blame GG for all my problems then I can avoid facing the fact that it was my own foolishiness that led to my deception"----- or something like that.

  Jesus described his followers often as sheep.  These sheep were not very clever, in Jesus view, because they were often "lost, wandering, being beaten and robbed, etc."  These needed a "shepherd" because, by definition, they were dependent creatures.

  Jesus did not describe his followers using an example of strong independent creatures.  He did liken those that abused his sheep as having strong predatory characteristics.  Wolves make a living off of the weak, and they themselves have very strong aggresive characters; able to take control of a situation to their advantage.

  False holiness teachers like GG are able to cover their true wolf like characters in a cloak of sheep skin, but their abusive treatment of the sheep reveals their true character.  True holiness has a passionate care for God's needy sheep and seeks to protect, and feed them.

   The especially needy in the Assembly suffered some very deep wolf bites.  Think of the ones called onto the carpet and openly shamed and ridiculed in public by GG and Assembly leaders!  Those forced out because they dared to question GG and/or Assembly teaching and practices!

  To tell these individuals that it is their fault for not seeing that this was wrong, or that they should have "taken responsiblity" for their own decision to submit to GG, is to further injure an innocent lamb.

  Holiness recognizes that we are sheep-like, not Soaring Eagles  , and as such, we need to practice in our Christian relationships a care and tenderness that is sensitive to those that are "more necessary" among us---- the weak.

  This is not an attempt to claim victims status, but a recognition of our own needy condition as the simple reality of our Christian lives for as long as we live on this Earth.  It is also the means for the creation of true holiness in our lives via the formation of a loving heart.

                                                God Bless,  Mark C.

   

[M2]

Rom 8:3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh,

I agree that we should aspire to true holiness.  GG's was academically correct on some matters.  His method of becoming holy, on the other hand, became a series of assembly rules and regulations focussed on keeping the "vision of this ministry" and "preserving the testimony" in order to maintain his lifestyle.

E.g. the anchors became a means of communicating that we must be "faithful" to 4 meetings a week.  The principle of meeting with other Christians is healthy towards spiritual growth, however the Geftakys ministry focussed on works and did not preach grace.  One brother told me that he stayed in the assembly because he "could make a contribution" there.  Another  person said that it was because of the closeknit family type friendships.  Another because of the "way we meet".  None yet has ever said that it is because the Lord is there.  It is still all a work-based ministry.

Blessings,
Marcia

[sfortescue]

Isaiah 57:15
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

[vernecarty]

  False holiness teachers like GG are able to cover their true wolf like characters in a cloak of sheep skin, but their abusive treatment of the sheep reveals their true character.  True holiness has a passionate care for God's needy sheep and seeks to protect, and feed them.

   The especially needy in the Assembly suffered some very deep wolf bites.  Think of the ones called onto the carpet and openly shamed and ridiculed in public by GG and Assembly leaders!  Those forced out because they dared to question GG and/or Assembly teaching and practices!

  To tell these individuals that it is their fault for not seeing that this was wrong, or that they should have "taken responsiblity" for their own decision to submit to GG, is to further injure an innocent lamb.

  Holiness recognizes that we are sheep-like, not Soaring Eagles  , and as such, we need to practice in our Christian relationships a care and tenderness that is sensitive to those that are "more necessary" among us---- the weak.

  This is not an attempt to claim victims status, but a recognition of our own needy condition as the simple reality of our Christian lives for as long as we live on this Earth.  It is also the means for the creation of true holiness in our lives via the formation of a loving heart.

                                                God Bless,  Mark C.

   

I think in hindsight most people will tell you that there was always something about Geftakys that did not seem quite right. One brother in Champaign, whose mother was really despised by the assembly apparatchiks, called him a snake and a serpent to his face. He used that to set the poor brother against his own mother.
It turns out she immediately saw something so many others did not.
Many of us had only hints and suggestions about his true nature.
The workers and leading brothers knew the man intimately.
My thinking about the entire system radically changd after I begain to learn the incidents, retold my many, of the common public vulgarity of the man and the way he would publicly humiliate those serving with him.
All these leading brothers and so called elders and workers witnessed this kind of conduct and not come with lying excuse for their countenancing this kind of horrific behaviour over not just weeks or months but literally decades. I really need to stay away from that aspect of what happened as it always ends up making my blood boil...
Verne

[M2]

Mark,

Thanks again.  That last post was a blessing.

I've heard stories of waitresses who have developed lung cancer from second hand smoke in their unhealthy work environment.  Restaurant owners are now recognizing the hazards of smoking and are going smoke-free.  But many employees have already been affected and need medical treatment or, in some cases, are terminally ill.

Similarly our spiritual condition does suffer from a toxic spiritual environment, and each of us, to varying degrees, need 'medical care' in order to recover from it.

Marcia

[lenore]

 

Mark,

Thanks again. That last post was a blessing.

I've heard stories of waitresses who have developed lung cancer from second hand smoke in their unhealthy work environment. Restaurant owners are now recognizing the hazards of smoking and are going smoke-free. But many employees have already been affected and need medical treatment or, in some cases, are terminally ill.

Similarly our spiritual condition does suffer from a toxic spiritual environment, and each of us, to varying degrees, need 'medical care' in order to recover from it.

Marcia

I agree with your last sentence here Marcia.
TOXIC SPIRITUAL ENVIROMENT..causes our spiritual condition to suffer...to recover we need a spiritual medical care...

HOW DO WE GET THAT SPIRITUAL RECOVERY?

I agree that talking about the causes and reasons for the spiritual toxic garbage that invaded our spirit is a way. Whether it is being quite and talking to God and be willing to give it up, and/or by talking to spiritual mentor/friend, or a professional that can deal with mental/emotional illnesses. Spiritual illnesses can manifest into mental illnesses, or mental illnesses can be aggravated by a broken spirit.  By talking about the reasons behind the cause, should be an cover up for taking responsibility for our own actions and responses. It is acknowledging the causes without making them excuses.  What happen to make us ill, is not our fault, but our actions because them is our actions and the consequences for those actions are?  This I am learning.
I have had so much pain, and identifying the reasons is a way to deal with them, but if I am not talking them over for the right reason is to become refreshed by releasing them in a positive way, then I am not really healing, I am only allowing the past actions of others to control me.

Alternatively, you cannot be alone and allow the past spiritual abuses to fester, to boil over within your spirit, to turn into bitterness, and hate, and revenge. It only poisons our own spirit.
The poison must be released one way or another.

Spirit Toxic Enviroment can be spilled from anywhere, whether it is the garbage we allow in from our day to day exposure of living in the world, or in a home enviroment that we hear negativity day in and day out, or abusive enviroment, or even under the disguise of sheep from a predator like a wolf, telling us disguised truth, until that when betrayal has come, the damage is already done. Or even participating in our own natural responses from the hurt, and pain, bitterness, attacking to defend and protect ourselves from others who are deem dangerous to our very soul.

I think as Christian we need to be very aware of the SPIRITUAL TOXIC GARBAGE ENVIROMENT  we are allowing in to poison our own spiritual system.
I put myself in that we admonishment, because since I suffer from a mental illnesses that can rob my sense of worth so quickly, that I need to make step to assure that I have a close relationship with my Saviour the only real one, who has the power to free me of the Toxic Enviroment that has poisoned my spirit.

Lenore
lenorewhelan@yahoo.ca

[Mark C.]

HOW DO WE GET THAT SPIRITUAL RECOVERY?

I agree that talking about the causes and reasons for the spiritual toxic garbage that invaded our spirit is a way(to spiritual recovery). Whether it is being quite(quiet) and talking to God and be willing to give it up, and/or by talking to spiritual mentor/friend, or a professional that can deal with mental/emotional illnesses. Spiritual illnesses can manifest into mental illnesses, or mental illnesses can be aggravated by a broken spirit.  By talking about the reasons behind the cause, should(n't) be a cover up for taking responsibility for our own actions and responses. It is acknowledging the causes without making them excuses.  What happen(ed) to make us ill, is not our fault, but our actions because of them are?  This I am learning.
I have had so much pain, and identifying the reasons is a way to deal with them, but if I am not talking them over for the right reason, to become refreshed by releasing them in a positive way, then I am not really healing, I am only allowing the past actions of others to control me.
Alternatively, you cannot be alone and allow the past spiritual abuses to fester, to boil over within your spirit, to turn into bitterness, and hate, and revenge. It only poisons our own spirit.
The poison must be released one way or another.
Spirit Toxic Enviroment can be spilled from anywhere, whether it is the garbage we allow in from our day to day exposure of living in the world, or in a home enviroment that we hear negativity day in and day out, or abusive enviroment, or even under the disguise of sheep from a predator like a wolf, telling us disguised truth, until that when betrayal has come, the damage is already done. Or even participating in our own natural responses from the hurt, and pain, bitterness, attacking to defend and protect ourselves from others who are deem dangerous to our very soul.

I think as Christian we need to be very aware of the SPIRITUAL TOXIC GARBAGE ENVIROMENT  we are allowing in to poison our own spiritual system.
I put myself in that we admonishment, because since I suffer from a mental illnesses that can rob my sense of worth so quickly, that I need to make step to assure that I have a close relationship with my Saviour the only real one, who has the power to free me of the Toxic Enviroment that has poisoned my spirit.
Lenore
lenorewhelan@yahoo.ca

     Dear Lenore, 

  I made a few little edits on your wonderful post above, but that is only because I thought that your insights needed to be made very clear for all to consider.

  You have in one post presented what I have been trying to say in a couple of years of posting!  You say, "the things that I have learned", and in fact your post demonstrates that God has not only helped you but is helping us through your acquired wisdom.

  You used the phrase, "broken spirit", a very biblical phrase, and one worth pondering in light of this thread of "Wounded Pilgrims."

  For those who object to the term "spiritual abuse", please consider the above phrase (broken spirit), and those like it in the Bible.  I've mentioned how Jesus and Paul taught the dangers of false religion in regard to how it can "harm/destroy/make evil/ offend/etc."

  So, if one does not like modern terms, such as "toxic", then you are just reacting to the modern use of terms for what Jesus had described as, "a den of Vipers!"  Again, Jesus was trying to describe a spiritual reality where certain religionists are capable of giving you poisoned (toxic?) bites.  Jesus and Paul warned that certain teaching/practices can harm persons of faith.  They also taught that innocent and sincere believers can be deceived and taken advantage of by spiritual imposters.

 Not only can imposters harm us, those that consider themselves "the strong" can damage our souls as well.  If we want to follow Jesus we need to learn how to build-up vs. tear down and that will mean an honest review of how the church teaches and practices it's theology.

  Lenore has put the whole consideration in balance, an aspect of our lives that the Assembly threw way out of whack, and that is that it is not wrong to consider our past abuse and that there are positive ways to deal with the abuse and to get better.

  There are those who say, "get on with your life and stop whining about your Assembly past", to which I would answer: "Are you saying in the above statement that you wish to ignore/escape/suppress up to 30 years of your life?  Is your life so meaningless that what you dedicated your life to for decades is not worth any consideration?"

   If you won't reflect, as Lenore has been forced to do because of her emotional struggles, you will never gain the wisdom and depth of faith that she has gained.   

   Some might consider Lenore "the weak," and because they don't suffer from depression like she does, they consider her contribution here not as valuable as someone without such a malady.

  Like the biblical referneces to the widow we discover these are the most important to God; and ones' who are most prized in his estimation and useful to his purposes! 

   Thanks so much Lenore for building my faith and for providing an example of how grace works in our souls!

                                                        God Bless,  Mark C.
   

[al Hartman]

Quote from: LENORE on March 11, 2005, 04:38:13 pm

I agree that talking about the causes and reasons for the spiritual toxic garbage that invaded our spirit is a way(to spiritual recovery).

Whether it is being quite(quiet) and talking to God and be willing to give it up, and/or by talking to spiritual mentor/friend, or a professional that can deal with mental/emotional illnesses.   

By talking about the reasons behind the cause, should(n't) be a cover up for taking responsibility for our own actions and responses.

I have had so much pain, and identifying the reasons is a way to deal with them, but if I am not talking them over for the right reason, to become refreshed by releasing them in a positive way, then I am not really healing, I am only allowing the past actions of others to control me[/u].

I need to make step to assure that I have a close relationship with my Saviour the only real one, who has the power to free me of the Toxic Enviroment that has poisoned my spirit.

Quote from: Mark C. on March 12, 2005, 12:10:57pm

  There are those who say, "get on with your life and stop whining about your Assembly past", to which I would answer: "Are you saying in the above statement that you wish to ignore/escape/suppress up to 30 years of your life?  Is your life so meaningless that what you dedicated your life to for decades is not worth any consideration?"

   If you won't reflect, as Lenore has been forced to do because of her emotional struggles, you will never gain the wisdom and depth of faith that she has gained.   

The bold and underscored portions of the quotes above may help to clarify a misunderstanding:

The statements of Lenore in the first quote may be very clearly construed as "getting on with one's life."  She very openly states that the necessary conversation, whether with God or with others, re: confronting the past must be "for the right reason," and done in "a positive way" that will ultimately lead to assuring a close relationship with Christ.  This is in no way condoning "whining about your assembly past," but is in fact recommending the very "consideration" and "reflection" that will lead one to gain the wisdom and depth of faith of which Mark is speaking.

Different folks have different ways of expressing themselves, but many of us may be more on the same page that we realize...

Thanks to you both.

In Christ,
al

[Mark C.]

Thanks Al,

  It is obvious that the one solid anchor in all our lives is our faith in God's good intentions toward us and this is "the same language" we share.

  What made the Assembly such a harmful place for many of us is that it distorted these good intentions of God toward us and put us on the endless hamster wheel of seeking to earn that love.

  Along with this was the cultish highly abusive means to secure our compliance to this erroneous system that GG promoted.

  What positive things can possibly come from a recollection of such misery?  Is it not better to just forget the whole thing and move on?  Haven't we beat this dead horse long enough?

   The most wonderful discovery to make is in finding that God, not only is not the cruel taskmaster we knew from our former association, he wants to show us that he is actively the very opposite!

  Lately, I have been posting on this thread, that while it is very important to have an intellectual grasp of the grace of God, it is a knowledge that must also reach deeply into our souls and light the passion of our hearts as well.

  Tom said that our emotional life has a lot to do with habit, and I think that this is very true.  We respond before we actually think, or the emotions are so strong that sometimes they overpower our thougts.  We may feel like we've lost control of our inner life and wonder where God is in the middle of all this confusion.

  It may be that some of us need to understand that the reason we react the way we do now is because of how we were abused while in the Assembly.  If we have trouble reading the bible, praying, going to church, or feel out of touch with God it is possible our lives are still running in the same emotional ruts from our past association.

  Try as we can, because our spirituality was so emotionally based, we just can't seem to disconnect from that past and still have a satisfying relationship with God.  For those suffering from this it is my opinion that we must discover a means for recovery that goes beyond just finding a good church and listening to the preaching.

 God loves his wounded lambs, and most certainly and earnestly wants to bless them with the assurance of his intimate care for them.

  I have mentioned in the past that I tried to combat my difficulty with reading the Bible via an intellectual approach, vs reading the bible in a devotional manner.  I read bible commentaries, theology, and the like, and in so doing avoided the "voice of GG" that always was engaged when I read the Word.  I still do this to this day, and encourage strong mental engagement in biblical theology.

  Though the above was very helpful to me, I still hungered for the feelings that I experienced with the former devotional approach.  I have learned that it is possible to recover one's "inner life" with God and still not get off into "the fourth dimension of light" that GG instructed us in.

   No, I have not found the secret path to nirvana, and fall short on a daily basis.  I sometimes get discouraged, depressed, irritable, angry with myself, anxious, etc.  What I have discovered though is that these reactions are emotional habits that were cut deeply into my soul from my Assembly days ( yes, and what I also brought into the group with me from my hippie mystical past).

  In my mind I know that God loves me, and my faith is anchored there, but sometimes I wake up feeling a very deep anxiety within.  It took some deep reflection for me to understand that the root of this anxiety is a feeling of insecurity in my relationship with God formed during my Assembly past.

  Just an act of will, or the power of reason, cannot remove these recurring emotional habits and so I have had to learn how to cope with these moments. 

   This is the positive side to this consideration that will have to wait for Sunday AM, as this post is getting too long.  I will just say, that some of my more encouraging posts on God's determination to bless our lives come from the above learning process that I have alluded to.  The trick for me is to bring my knowledge of the facts of God's commitment to my eternal blessing into my life in such a way as it controls my attitudes, thoughts, feelings, behavior, and relationships.

   Please feel free to interrupt my monologue with your thoughts on this subject and don't be fearful of contradicting or questioning what I write.
                                          God Bless,  Mark C.