WOUNDED PILGRIMS

[Mark Kisla]

I am absolutely blown away by his refusal (inability?) to repent. 
Verne

Me too,
One of the most fundamental aspects of Gods love and grace towards us is that the bonds that keep us from admission and repentance are removed.
There is a lot to learn from all that has transpired and is now some what layed bare  before us. This is a story to warn your children and someday grand children.

[vernecarty]

Me too,
One of the most fundamental aspects of Gods love and grace towards us is that the bonds that keep us from admission and repentance are removed.
There is a lot to learn from all that has transpired and is now some what layed bare  before us. This is a story to warn your children and someday grand children.

There is nothing more terrifying to me than to imagine that I was George Geftakys.
In that sense, he perfectly fulfils God's purpose for the Biblical type.


Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.


In the clutches of His grace...
Verne

[tenderhearted]

Mark: I dont know if this is appropriate for this thread.

Received this via email.
Thought this might fit here.

Lenore
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Who God Uses
God, grant me the Serenity to accept the people I cannot change, 
the Courage to change the one I can, and the Wisdom to know it's me. 

The next time you feel like GOD can't use you, just remember... 
Noah was a drunk 
Abraham was too old 
Isaac was a daydreamer 
Jacob was a liar 
Leah was ugly 
Joseph was abused 
Moses had a stuttering problem 
Gideon was afraid 
Samson had long hair and was a womanizer 
Rahab was a prostitute 
Jeremiah and Timothy were too young 
David had an affair and was a murderer 
Elijah was suicidal 
Isaiah preached naked 
Jonah ran from God 
Naomi was a widow 
Job went bankrupt 
John the Baptist ate bugs 
Peter denied Christ 
The Disciples fell asleep while praying 
Martha worried about everything 
The Samaritan woman was divorced, more than once 
Zaccheus was too small 
Paul was too religious 
Timothy had an ulcer...AND 
Lazarus was dead! 

No more excuses now. God can use you to your full potential. 
Besides you aren't the message, you are just the messenger. 
 

1. God wants spiritual fruit, not religious nuts. 
2. Dear God, I have a problem, it's me. 
3. Growing old is inevitable . growing UP is optional. 
4. There is no key to happiness. The door is always open. 
5. Silence is often misinterpreted but never misquoted. 
6. Do the math. .. count your blessings. 
7. Faith is the ability to not panic. 
8. Laugh every day, it's like inner jogging. 
9. If you worry, you didn't pray. If you pray, don't worry. 
10. As a child of God, prayer is kind of like calling home everyday. 
11. Blessed are the flexible for they shall not be bent out of shape. 
12. The most important things in your house are the people. 
13. When we get tangled up in our problems, be still. 
God wants us to be still so He can untangle the knot. 
14. A grudge is a heavy thing to carry. 
15. He who dies with the most toys is still dead. 

[moonflower2]

Moonie,

From what I have observed on this BB, you have quite a talent for soap opera.

Marcia

Hmmm.....I hadn't realized......

Think it will take me as long as it took Lucci? 

[summer007]

Lenore, This post was a blessing to me because I had an amazing experience this week. My daughter is the President of the Christian Club at her high school and it was time to pass the baton to the new Pres as she's graduating in 2 weeks it went to one of my son's best friends a P.K. the last one was a P. K. too but anyway it was an honor for my daughter. So when the speaker was ending in prayer decided to throw out look its summer many of you will go off to college, on vacation etc  If any of you hav'ent recieved the Lord during the year you can now in prayer and low and behold 10 to 15 kids accepted Christ right there at lunch on campus it was great. Then I got to speak to this Missionary friend of mine visiting from 3.5 months in Cambodia I asked her how does that work do you pay your mortgage/rent for a few monts and come back or do you put your stuff in storage and she says neither I have No Strings! How many of us have No Strings and are ready for the Master's use? This led me to do some examining in my own life in a good way it was a blessing to talk with her for a good hour after and learn from her she' like a Mother Theresa type. God is Good!  Summmer.

[summer007]

P.S. Just to add whats so nice about this little Harvest/Catch is their is no Assm taint, snare,  bondage to toxically poison the kids they are Free in Christ and this is a Beautiful thing! 

[Mark C.]

Hi Lenore!

  You do not have to check with me first as to what fits on this thread, as I do not wish to own the topic as my private blog.

  I love what you shared, because it shows that God loves and uses real life people, dislikes spiritual pretenders, and thus can use me.

  On another thread you asked a question about "when is an apology a real apology", and at first I thought there was a simple answer---- when it is sincere.

  We have talked privately about this, and I know why you are asking the question, but I'll answer here because you have asked it on the BB.

  Jesus just tells us to forgive those who own up to their sin against us, and to do so 70 x7 times.  Peter in this passage thought that 7 times would be a reasonable limit, and this makes sense, because after a while we would suspect that the apologizer would be taking advantage of us with his repeated wrongs and confessions.

   Why did Jesus allow for such a magnanimous attitude in re. to a Christian accepting an apology from someone who sinned against them?

   I think it was because we all are so fallible and will have to be doing a lot of apologizing to one another between now and heaven.  In James we are told to have a regular practice of confession and that it has the added benefit of bringing healing to our souls. 

  As to "conditions" attached to an apology:

 1.) An apology cannot be general:  such as, "if" I hurt anyone please forgive me. (this is a way to avoid taking responsibility as it could mean that the one requesting an apology is just miffed about nothing.

2.) An apology is for actual behavior:  As in, "I said something bad to you", etc.  We don't apologize for disagreeing with someone's opinion, on say politics.

3.)An apology can be limited to where I am actually culpable in a situation:

 Let's say I write a book about GG and abuse in the Assembly.  I get one name wrong and several of my dates also are in error, but the rest of the entire book is entirely accurate.  An Assembly defender attacks me as a liar for my inaccuracies, and claims the whole book therefore is suspect.
   If I'm made aware of my mistakes I need to own up to them, but I in no way will apologize for where I was accurate.

  As to the one accepting the apology:  If we have the attitude that we really want this person's apology to humiliate and hurt them, possibly to the same degree their wrong did to us, we are looking at the whole situation in the wrong spirit.

  It is very difficult to forgive and not hold things against others, because we think they are escaping consequences for their actions against us.  At heart we really want them to get theirs!  This is essential human nature and why divorce, marriage counselors, etc. are so plentiful in this world.  The article on the old English couple that you posted is a wonderful testimony to a relationship based on not holding grudges.

  Each situation will differ, and obviously we don't accept apologies from a wife beater who says they are sorry only to continue in that behavior.

   I'm sure others will be able to add to what I say here.

  As to the BB Title that includes "George Geftakys", this is the first I've seen this as well.  It may have something to do with how this site is listed on a search engine; so that it can be found by those looking for GG and his Assembly.  I'm sure that it is not for the purpose of giving GG credit as a creator/endorser of the contents .

                                                     God Bless,  Mark C.

 

[M2]

I was impressed with the cinematography - the moving back and forth between black/white and color.  However, I found myself looking at my watch during the show wanting them to "get on with it" and I found it difficult to follow the words of their song.

I prefer Evita as an Andrew Lloyd Weber favorite.

Re. Phantom, interesting spiritual parallels in the story, which in itself wasn't much.  The music was where the substance was and the acting was superb.  However, to note a few points.
The Count was a saviour-type figure while the phantom was the ensnarer-type.  The Count promised to protect and gallantly took action.  His promise was true yet she still had to experience some suffering.  The phantom became bitter because of how the world had treated him for his disfigurement and wanted to take what he had not rightfully meritted.  The little girl's (who later bacame the woman's) actions to help the phantom, did not truly help him in the end.  I saw Elephant Man years ago and he, on the other hand, was not bitter because of his condition and poor treatment.

Marcia

[moonflower2]

Moonie,

From what I have observed on this BB, you have quite a talent for soap opera.

Marcia

Marcia,

I don't know. The more I think about this, the more I think it is an inappropriate comment for a Christian BB.

First you say there are snakes here. That was erie enough! Now I'm a drama queen?! You are making light of a fellow Christian's observations and emotions!!

It's no wonder that there are hoards of people just drooling to climb aboard here, but are shaking with fear! 

And now.....Dave M is showing his creativity, sewing afghans with diverse threads, and what happens?! He is brutally stomped on!!

Can't you see that he can't spell better than a 4th grader!! Nevermind that he chooses to overnight in haunted homes. Please give him a chance!! Show some Christian compassion!! You are throwing his afghans to the Turks.

Please!! Can't we all just get along??

REMEMBER: WWJD

[M2]

Marcia,

I don't know. The more I think about this, the more I think it is an inappropriate comment for a Christian BB.

First you say there are snakes here. That was erie enough! Now I'm a drama queen?! You are making light of a fellow Christian's observations and emotions!!

It's no wonder that there are hoards of people just drooling to climb aboard here, but are shaking with fear! 

And now.....Dave M is showing his creativity, sewing afghans with diverse threads, and what happens?! He is brutally stomped on!!

Can't you see that he can't spell better than a 4th grader!! Nevermind that he chooses to overnight in haunted homes. Please give him a chance!! Show some Christian compassion!! You are throwing his afghans to the Turks.

Please!! Can't we all just get along??

REMEMBER: WWJD

Moonie, you could always just wash your hands off the whole matter.  It's quite Biblical you know.

Or visit Thkippy on the other thread.  He is very understanding. 'cept you have to speak with a lisp else he won't understand you.

Marcia

P.S. speaking of soap, my kids loved to tell this one, How long is the song Soap Soap Soap Soap Soap??
MM

[tenderhearted]

Marcia,

I don't know. The more I think about this, the more I think it is an inappropriate comment for a Christian BB.

First you say there are snakes here. That was erie enough! Now I'm a drama queen?! You are making light of a fellow Christian's observations and emotions!!

It's no wonder that there are hoards of people just drooling to climb aboard here, but are shaking with fear! 

And now.....Dave M is showing his creativity, sewing afghans with diverse threads, and what happens?! He is brutally stomped on!!

Can't you see that he can't spell better than a 4th grader!! Nevermind that he chooses to overnight in haunted homes. Please give him a chance!! Show some Christian compassion!! You are throwing his afghans to the Turks.

Please!! Can't we all just get along??

REMEMBER: WWJD

Hi Moon:

In fear of getting into another conflict!

I COULDNT AGREE WITH YOU MORE ON WHAT YOU HAVE SAID!

Isnt it time to put away our claws and teeth, quit clubbing each other over the head.

LAY IT TO REST, DROP IT, AND MOVE ON.

Can people be allowed to be who they are, whatever and wherever the Lord has them at the point in time?

We are all learning, we are all growing. If we stop then we become useless to God.
We are all valued by God.

Enough has been said.

This is a topic which Mark has started on Wounded Piligrims.

We are all on a journey, whether it is the journey of life, and for most of us here on the AB, it is also a spiritual journey , walking along the path that Jesus took.

I myself, I call it a dance , because it one step forward and two steps back.

I am learning, even when God takes me back to the starting line. I am growing with the knowledge and experience.  I have knowledge the knowledge that God loves me, and values me.

God loves and values all his children, yes we are his children. Yes Children. Children that are growing into the maturity that will see us in eternity.  Children learn. When we quit learning we are dead, dead in spirit, dead in life. We will never arrive until Jesus comes take us home.

So as this topic is titled.

Let us Christian help each other on the journey.
We are all wounded one way or another. Whether it is what life throws at us. or what trials and tribulations that we must go through, to enrich our Christian lifes.

We are also human, in our human failings, we stumble and make mistakes, and we show our human nature more often than our spiritual nature. In saying this, should Christian attitudes be that of claws and teeth towards one another, or are we just showing the world that we are humans and no better than they are. How are they going to learn the better way of Christian life.
I went on a workshop last week. It was with Pembroke General Hospital, Community Mental Health.  It was on the whole person BODY MIND AND SOUL.
It is the Mental Health field that is accepting and embracing the spiritual side of people, and see the necessity of having a higher power to strength us. Yes it was generic and political correct in naming that higher power, but one of the speakers a former minister, although veil his words of God to a general one, it was very obvious a gospel message was brought out.

So even the world see the need for a spiritual path, something different, something that they can hang on to. That thing they can hang on is HOPE, HOPE IN GOD.

We as Christian , can we do no less with each other?

Just thinking out loud and expressing my thoughts in this matter!

Lenore

[Joe Sperling]

That'th a good quethtion Marthia, how long is the thong, thoap, thoap, thoap, thoap, thoap?Thpeaking of haunted houtheth, if anyone ith interethted, I have a genuine "Cathper the friendly
ghotht" autograph for thale. You can have it for a meathley five hundred dollarth. Let me know before I put it on E-bay.

thankth, Thkippy

[moonflower2]

Hi Moon:

In fear of getting into another conflict!

I COULDNT AGREE WITH YOU MORE ON WHAT YOU HAVE SAID!

Isnt it time to put away our claws and teeth, quit clubbing each other over the head.

LAY IT TO REST, DROP IT, AND MOVE ON.

Can people be allowed to be who they are, whatever and wherever the Lord has them at the point in time?

We are all learning, we are all growing. If we stop then we become useless to God.
We are all valued by God.

Enough has been said.

This is a topic which Mark has started on Wounded Piligrims.

We are all on a journey, whether it is the journey of life, and for most of us here on the AB, it is also a spiritual journey , walking along the path that Jesus took.

I myself, I call it a dance , because it one step forward and two steps back.

I am learning, even when God takes me back to the starting line. I am growing with the knowledge and experience.  I have knowledge the knowledge that God loves me, and values me.

God loves and values all his children, yes we are his children. Yes Children. Children that are growing into the maturity that will see us in eternity.  Children learn. When we quit learning we are dead, dead in spirit, dead in life. We will never arrive until Jesus comes take us home.

So as this topic is titled.

Let us Christian help each other on the journey.
We are all wounded one way or another. Whether it is what life throws at us. or what trials and tribulations that we must go through, to enrich our Christian lifes.

We are also human, in our human failings, we stumble and make mistakes, and we show our human nature more often than our spiritual nature. In saying this, should Christian attitudes be that of claws and teeth towards one another, or are we just showing the world that we are humans and no better than they are. How are they going to learn the better way of Christian life.
I went on a workshop last week. It was with Pembroke General Hospital, Community Mental Health.  It was on the whole person BODY MIND AND SOUL.
It is the Mental Health field that is accepting and embracing the spiritual side of people, and see the necessity of having a higher power to strength us. Yes it was generic and political correct in naming that higher power, but one of the speakers a former minister, although veil his words of God to a general one, it was very obvious a gospel message was brought out.

So even the world see the need for a spiritual path, something different, something that they can hang on to. That thing they can hang on is HOPE, HOPE IN GOD.

We as Christian , can we do no less with each other?

Just thinking out loud and expressing my thoughts in this matter!

Lenore

Lenore,

My post was just a joke. I was being sarcastic and exaggerating. I don't think posters are clubbing eachother over the head.

I don't think people are not allowed to be themselves here. There are always going to be disagreements when you have more than one person. When you post on a BB, you are opening yourself up to the opinions of anyone else who is posting. That doesn't mean that you are not accepted as a person, it just means that someone else doesn't agree with what you just said.

I agree with what Marcia had posted a while back. When I read someone's post, I look at what they are actually saying, and not whether they are following a certain protocol. It's a good way to learn.

[M2]

Hi Lenore!

  You do not have to check with me first as to what fits on this thread, as I do not wish to own the topic as my private blog.

  I love what you shared, because it shows that God loves and uses real life people, dislikes spiritual pretenders, and thus can use me.

  On another thread you asked a question about "when is an apology a real apology", and at first I thought there was a simple answer---- when it is sincere.

  We have talked privately about this, and I know why you are asking the question, but I'll answer here because you have asked it on the BB.

  Jesus just tells us to forgive those who own up to their sin against us, and to do so 70 x7 times.  Peter in this passage thought that 7 times would be a reasonable limit, and this makes sense, because after a while we would suspect that the apologizer would be taking advantage of us with his repeated wrongs and confessions.

   Why did Jesus allow for such a magnanimous attitude in re. to a Christian accepting an apology from someone who sinned against them?

   I think it was because we all are so fallible and will have to be doing a lot of apologizing to one another between now and heaven.  In James we are told to have a regular practice of confession and that it has the added benefit of bringing healing to our souls. 

  As to "conditions" attached to an apology:

 1.) An apology cannot be general:  such as, "if" I hurt anyone please forgive me. (this is a way to avoid taking responsibility as it could mean that the one requesting an apology is just miffed about nothing.

2.) An apology is for actual behavior:  As in, "I said something bad to you", etc.  We don't apologize for disagreeing with someone's opinion, on say politics.

3.)An apology can be limited to where I am actually culpable in a situation:

 Let's say I write a book about GG and abuse in the Assembly.  I get one name wrong and several of my dates also are in error, but the rest of the entire book is entirely accurate.  An Assembly defender attacks me as a liar for my inaccuracies, and claims the whole book therefore is suspect.
   If I'm made aware of my mistakes I need to own up to them, but I in no way will apologize for where I was accurate.

  As to the one accepting the apology:  If we have the attitude that we really want this person's apology to humiliate and hurt them, possibly to the same degree their wrong did to us, we are looking at the whole situation in the wrong spirit.

  It is very difficult to forgive and not hold things against others, because we think they are escaping consequences for their actions against us.  At heart we really want them to get theirs!  This is essential human nature and why divorce, marriage counselors, etc. are so plentiful in this world.  The article on the old English couple that you posted is a wonderful testimony to a relationship based on not holding grudges.

  Each situation will differ, and obviously we don't accept apologies from a wife beater who says they are sorry only to continue in that behavior.

   I'm sure others will be able to add to what I say here.

  As to the BB Title that includes "George Geftakys", this is the first I've seen this as well.  It may have something to do with how this site is listed on a search engine; so that it can be found by those looking for GG and his Assembly.  I'm sure that it is not for the purpose of giving GG credit as a creator/endorser of the contents .

                                                     God Bless,  Mark C.

Hi Mark C.,

Re. apology
I was brought up Roman Catholic.  One thing I hated was going to confession.  I hated trying to remember something to confess and then having to act religious while I did my penance, usually Hail Mary's and Holy Mary's.  So when they had those general absolution Masses I made sure I attended because it meant that I would not have to go to confession for a while.  I confess that I maybe went about once a year or less, I can't remember as it's been more than 23 years.  When someone makes one of those general apologies, it reminds me of those general absolutions the RC priest granted from time to time.

Another thing I hate is when someone dishonestly handles God's Word to their advantage.  Instead of using it as a lamp and a guide, they use it as a ramming object.  Mark, you may think I am referring to you and the Rom 14 incident, but I am not.

Marcia

[tenderhearted]

Lenore,

My post was just a joke. I was being sarcastic and exaggerating. I don't think posters are clubbing eachother over the head.

I don't think people are not allowed to be themselves here. There are always going to be disagreements when you have more than one person. When you post on a BB, you are opening yourself up to the opinions of anyone else who is posting. That doesn't mean that you are not accepted as a person, it just means that someone else doesn't agree with what you just said.

I agree with what Marcia had posted a while back. When I read someone's post, I look at what they are actually saying, and not whether they are following a certain protocol. It's a good way to learn.

Thanks Moon, for clearing this up.

But I have a different opinion on the whole outlook.
You may have considered a joke, but with what has been going on with this site for the last two month plus. It was no laughing matter.
I see double standards being applied.

Where acceptance is applied to one person and not really another.

I see were one's opinion is being ridiculed while another is accepted.

I just see something a lot different than jokes, maybe humour and joking about certain situation can lighten the mood, and take tension out of the situation, by making it a joke.
Yet the underlining emotion is still there, with the problem, solution and forgiveness still not being dealt with.

I agree each of us has a certain writing style with can be accepted.
But when that writing style shows an attitude then , the tone of that attitude comes out in the person writing style, then it is evident, that what ever the person's message, can't be quite trusted to be a lesson, because of the attitude behind the message has tainted that message.
Because it is the attitude that is really the message. Frequently message attitude is a very self centered, I am right , you are wrong, and you must admit that I am right. My opinion matters more than yours type of attitude and tone with in the message.
I have seen this in a few of the  posting in the last 8 to 10 weeks now.
With a message like that , there is nothing to be learned from it.

Yes we are a forum of vast group of people, with different histories, and backgrounds.
It is in that difference that tolerance should be greatly exercised, but it doesnt.
Yes we are a forum of mostly Christian people. That furthers deepens the tolerance and love for each other that should be greatly exercised. But what I have seen in the last several weeks, including myself, is mostly the opposite of what Jesus has told us to exercise.

I saw mostly accusation, brow beating, clubbing over the head, emotional attempts of wounding one another, arm twisting to make the other person see their viewpoints, and acknowledge that their viewpoints was the only correct way of seeing things..

I also saw, false witnessing, and name calling,and a bible police out there ready to challenge one thing out of line, and false accusation of miss using the bible in a selfish way.
So no I dont agree we are allowed to be ourselves on this website. When people are watching every move , ready to pounce on them for even a small mistake, and refusing to acknowledge a sorry over that.

Opinions is one thing, viewpoints are one thing. I believe opinions should have the a personal ownership attached to it. Then if a debate occurres then it is not handled in war games approached. 

So I acknowledge that you  were just joking, but in closing, I dont think the last couple of months was really nothing to laugh about.

Lenore