Wrong tools

[sfortescue]

Here is a link to a paper about the Harry Potter books:

http://www.shepherdschurch.com/scc/harrypotter.asp

In my opinion, there are other serious problems of a more subtle nature in these books, such as teaching how to use dishonest and underhanded ways of solving problems, and ways to control people through deception and intimidation. These are the devil's tools.

Once, when I was in a bookstore, I read through about half of one of those books before I got tired and left.  But from what I read, I could see what the hidden agenda was.  (Of course the reason for reading it in the book store was to avoid giving any financial support to their cause.)

Choosing to use the devil's tools to solve a problem represents a lack of faith in God.  The ends do not justify the means.

[SexyGirl]

And what exactly is their "hidden agenda", crazy person?

[Justin Hale]

I liked the books.  If you find them not suitable for children, then don't let them read them, but I think they're neat.  I hate kids movies and books, exept for these books.  I mean if the kid isn't old enough to tell the difference between fantasy and reality, then keep them away from the books.  It's not that big of a deal to me.

[Oscar]

Hi Steve,

I have watched with interest, (and some amusement) the flurry of Harry Potter exposes, (sorry, I don't know how to put an accent over the second "e").  

I am old enough to remember when Star Wars came out.  Just about everyone went to see it, and  it produced the same outpouring of books and articles from two different viewpoints;  1. The "hidden agenda" view which saw the movies as a subtle evangelistic tool for New Age ideas.  Personally, I have never heard of anyone who was converted to New Age beliefs by watching Han Solo chase Princess Lea accross the universe.

2. The "Jesus is the Force" crowd who saw Christian overtones in all sorts of  things.  After all, Darth Vader died for all the people of the universe when he sacrificed his life to save Luke.  (All the people he hadn't already murdered that is.)

Now as to the "hidden agenda" of the Harry Potter books, have you ever noticed that the famous and popular Chronicles of Narnia could be said to have a hidden agenda too.  

1. The books involve the use of magic by both good and evil people.  Lucy has a vial of healing cordial, another one of the kids has a bow that cant miss, there is a horn that always brings help, (a la Boromir in the LOTR).

2. The books teach that worshipping demons sincerely is the same as  worshipping God.  Remember the officer who worshipped Tashlan in the Last Battle?  Aslan said it was the same as worshipping him.

3. The books teach that you can lose your salvation.  At the end of the series the oldest girl, Susan I think, is "no longer a friend of Narnia".

Now, in my opinion the books teach none of this!  It is undeniable that these things are in the books, but all they are is whopping good stories, read by Christian parents to zillions of their kids.  There is a lot of Christ symbolism in them, but a lot of other stuff too.

I believe the "hidden agenda" of the Harry Potter books is to MAKE TONS OF MONEY for the author.  But, I guess that is no longer very hidden.

Thomas Maddux

[sfortescue]

I believe that I have already indicated what I believe to be the hidden agenda.  It is for children to believe that using foul means to accomplish good ends is OK.  That is why the thread is called, "Wrong tools."

Here is another link to some more arguments:

http://www.christiansaware.org/articles/harrypot/article.htm

[Oscar]

Steve,

I checked out the article you linked.  I noticed one line in particular which said something like, "The reason these books are so popular is because our society has a hunger for spiritual answers...".  

That's the problem with this sort of thing.  Just how does this lady know this is true?  Did she hire George Gallup?

Could it not be that this society is BORED?   The books are entertaining.

Steve, I remember you as a person of formidible intelligence.  But what you are participating in is known as a conspiricy theory.   Some dark force/organization/movement is out to rule the world.  
Over the years I have listened to advocates of a whole bunch of these things.  Examples would be:

1. The Trilateral Commission
2. The U.N.  (watch out for black helicopters)
3. The Jesuits
4. The Jews-especially "Jewish financiers".
5. The Freemasons  (I talked to a guy about this last Thursday)
6. The ACLU
7. The Federal Reserve System
8. The Commission on Foreign Relations
9. International Wicca-Jimmie Carter was supposed to be the head warlock.
10. The Knights Templar
11. The NAZI's  (hiding since Hitler, but still at it)
12. The Right Wing Militia movement
13. And, of course, let's don't ever forget our good friends the COMMIES.
14. The New Age Movement
15. The Aquarians
16. The Brown Berets

Some of these are spread by CHRISTIANS!

But here is a question I always ask; If this is a "vast right wing/left wing/communist/jesuit/whatever else in the world conspiricy...HOW DID YOU FIND OUT ABOUT IT?

These guys are about to take over the world...but they can't keep a secret at all, and just about everyone knows about it already.

Did you know that the contrails we see over LA are a the result of a vast weather control conspiracy?  I don't know who is behind that one...but Art Bell does.

If the Harry Potter agenda is "hidden", how is it that you are posting about it on a bulletin board?

Sure, lots of people have agendas.   There really are commies that want to take over the world...I and a few million other guys helped to keep it from happening. But those agendas aren't hidden.

Oh yes...let's don't forget Opus Dei...an international Catholic organization for intellectuals.  

I just think one needs a WHOLE lot more evidence before coming to such conclusions.

I think that the author of Harry Potter books writes about her agenda in a secret alphabet.  It looks like this;

$$$$$$$$$$$

Thomas Maddux

[outdeep]

I read three of the HP books and found them to be delightful stories with vivid, cartoonish characters.  Harry does try to get his way by working around the system.  For example, he uses his invisibility cloak to try to get to Hogsmead when he is supposed to stay at the castle.  I think he actually gets busted for this one if I recall.

But to try and put mature, adult sensibilities into a Junior High character would ruin the character.  Creating non-idealistic characters with flaws doesn't imply the author condones their actions or is trying to promote deception.   It simply means she is trying to think like a Junior High kid who DOES try and work around the system and sometimes gets caught and sometimes gets away with things.

As for deception and intimidation, that surfaced most in those who bought into Voldimore's (think Darth Vador) deceptions and you would probably expect them to act despicible.  (OK, there is Uncle Vernon, but most, like myself, laugh at his cartoonish antics, not seek to emulate them - most who follow him and his spoild child Dudly have to see them as exagerated humor, not the poster children of a dubious moral agenda).

I personally think that Christians should study HP, learn how to do serious plotting, vivid characterisation, compelling storytelling and build something better (no, not a Christian Harry Potter, but something original for a change like Kathrene Marshall did with Cristy).  

It is a shame that we Christians hold in our hands the truth of God and a transforming, redemptive message and the best that we can come up with in the world of best selling literature is "The Prayer of Jabez" coffee commuter mug.  (I won't comment on the "Left Behind" series since I didn't read them, but I am concerned that their end-time theology premace may be as fictious as the rest of their novels.)

Don't like Harry Potter, Christian?  Then take up your pen and write something original and better.

[al Hartman]

Dear Stephen, and All,

     It looks like perhaps this thread is misnamed.  i say this, because the premise of "wrong tools" presumes a definite goal:  the Lord's work, and suggests that exposing children to a certain type of literature is the wrong way to go about teaching them Christian values.  Of course it is, but is preventing that exposure the right way?
     Rather, perhaps, the title could be "Wrong Agenda," as  agenda is a major concern here from the outset.  Compare the concern over children's exposure to un-Christian values with the ministry of this bulletin board:
     The BB was set up to rescue saints who had been victimized by a particular evil:  Geftakysism.  But the method is not to merely rail against the wickedness of the false, but to exalt the true:  Bring the imperilled back to intimacy with Jesus Christ.
     Has someone's life actually been damaged by reading Rowling's "wizard" books or seeing the movies?  Pray for them, and bring them to Jesus Christ.
     Back in the 1940s, a popular song said:
          "You have to Accentuate the Positive,
                                      Eliminate the Negative,
                                            Latch onto the Affirmative,
                                And don't mess with Mr. In-Between"
     Although the song spoke of Jonah and Noah, i don't recall ever hearing of anyone getting saved from listening to it, but the point is this:
     If you don't preach the gospel of Jesus Christ;  if you only try to eliminate the negative (show what is wrong with or about something), all you do is create a void where the thing was that you took away.  People hold onto what they have because they are empty.  If you just take something away from them, they'll grab the next thing they see that they can stuff into the empty place.  UNLESS you give them Christ to fill the void.
     Christian parents have always had to protect their children from the corruption that is in the world, but it is impossible to isolate them from all ungodly influences.  That results in monasteries & convents, where sin still finds its way in.  No, the protection lies in PRAYER, and CHRISTIAN WITNESS & TEACHING:  fill the heart & mind with Jesus Christ and call upon Him to see that no empty place exists for the other things to take hold.  That alone constitutes both the tools and the agenda that will build the structure that God desires.

in Jesus Christ,
al Hartman