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Author Topic: Boycott Warren Buffett  (Read 19118 times)
sfortescue
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« on: June 25, 2003, 03:26:41 am »

Here is a link to the original article, a copy of which was previously posted here:

http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/webonly/a0025956.html
http://www.family.org/cforum/citizenmag/webonly/a0025956.cfm
« Last Edit: May 13, 2004, 04:10:04 am by Stephen M. Fortescue » Logged
psalm51
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2003, 04:12:23 am »

I'm curious. If you found out that your boss is pro-choice/pro-abortion and gave regularly to Planned Parenthood from a legit company fund (albeit only $30 a month) would you quit your job?
« Last Edit: June 25, 2003, 04:21:14 am by Pat Mathews » Logged
Uh Oh
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2003, 05:45:09 pm »

Stephen,

I highly doubt that your boycott of the multi - billion dollar company Berkshire Hathaway, Inc. is going to do a whole lot of damage.  As a matter of fact, you could probably get all of the saints, all the people ever involved with the assembly, all of the people ever offended by saints in the assembly, mulitply that amount by 1000, have a protest, and still not make one iota of a dent in Berkshire.

Warren's actually a real nice guy who donates to a lot of different causes. Your ignorant one sided post is a direct reflection of the former ways of assembly life.

I guess we won't be seeing you at Dairy Queen any time soon.
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vbeers
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2003, 06:02:40 pm »

isn't buffet the guy who gives loads of money to omaha teachers every year?  must be a really terrible, horrible, child-hating type of guy to do something like that...
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Kimberley Tobin
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2003, 08:22:44 pm »

vbeers - I think you missed the point.

Buffet could do wonderful things with his money AND do unconscionable things with his money.  We aren't faulting him for the GOOD things he does with his money.  We are finding fault with the MILLIONS of dollars he is giving each to year to fund KILLING BABIES.
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vbeers
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2003, 08:32:06 pm »

i didn't miss the point and i certainly don't advocate abortion, however, i think, as previously mentioned, that our energies would be better spent elsewhere.  buffet is, in case you are unaware, one of the wealthiest men in the world.  it won't make a bit of difference to him if we stop buying pampered chef, blizzards, and/or double dipped ice cream cones.  

i think far too often people waste their time, energy, and brain power on things that are truly ineffective.  why not take it upon yourself to instead extend a loving hand to the young men and women in your neighborhood who don't find love in their own homes.  this may in fact prevent far more abortions (and innumerable other hardships)  than any number of people against buffet.
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Joe Sperling
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« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2003, 08:49:54 pm »

This is an interesting thread. It's a difficult question because I see both sides to this issue. Of course, we want to "cry out" against abortion. But is  "quitting my job" at  a company owned by a Billion dollar corporation the right thing to do? It obviously is affecting this woman's family with her making half her pay. Would God hold her "accountable" for what a billion dollar corporation does?

She's getting her name in articles as a "Christian Crusader" but will she really make an effect? This same Corporation also does a lot of good for schools, etc.  Should she quit her job due to a negative, or continue in her job trying to increase the positive? "Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good". Do we resign because of evil, or continue in "goodness", attempting to double the good things that are done by the same company? We hate abortion, but we continue in that company, making suggestions in the suggestion box, writing letters, and having a good effect on others.

Each one of us can find "evil" in the company we work for. I'm sure if we investigate we'll find many things  dishonouring to the Lord, and which are being used to work against righteousness. Do I quit? Or do I become that "light on top of a hill" that Jesus spoke of? Perhaps I can't change the evil, but I can increase the good!!!

Some Christian groups spend all of their money on advertising and articles about what we "shouldn't be doing" such as what we shouldn't be watching, reading, or doing. They have a "zeal for righteousness". But what if they took that same money and gave it to Wycliffe Bible Translators to help get Bibles to people in the world who don't have a translation in their own language? Or any organization that is working silently behind the scenes accomplsihing great good for God? I think this is more of the true "zeal" God wants to see. Be a light where you are, despite the evil, and help fulfill the Great Commission. Focus on what we "can do" rather than what we "shouldn't be doing".  Just my opinion and I'm open for correction

God bless you,  Joe
« Last Edit: June 26, 2003, 12:36:52 am by Joe Sperling » Logged
vbeers
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« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2003, 09:26:48 pm »

although much more eloquently written, my point exactly!
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Joe Sperling
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« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2003, 09:54:36 pm »

Vbeers----

You and I must have been posting at the same time on your 2nd to last post. if I had read that first there would be no need for me to post too.  I see we are of the same mind on this.

take care, and God bless,  Joe
« Last Edit: June 25, 2003, 09:55:28 pm by Joe Sperling » Logged
sfortescue
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2003, 01:32:21 am »

Joe,

You could be mistaken.  Tara Siler was most likely highly paid, so living on half of her former salary would not cause any serious harm to her family.  Besides, it was her own choice.  If she is doing what God wants her to do, then God will provide for her needs.

It is true that efficient means should be employed to change things for the better.  I don't know how efficient this boycott will be, but the article does say that Buffett is a top contributer to the abortion industry.  This makes him seem like a good target for activism.  Another question would be what percentage of the donations received by the abortion industry come from him, and who else is on the donor list?

Speaking of negativity, another form of negativity is to discourage those who are trying to improve things.  There are many people in the world, and different people have different skills and resources available to them.  Remember that Jesus told his disciples not to discourage those who were doing God's work although not following with them.
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Joe Sperling
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2003, 07:25:17 am »

Stephen---

You're right--I could very well be mistaken.  Most people who make more money have a tendency to spend more money. But perhaps she has been very frugal and can take having her salary cut in half with no problems.

It just seems that there are a faction of Christians that center on "boycotting" things, and pointing out what you shouldn't watch or read. A lot of the "boycotters" make sure
you know their name and why they started it. Then they become known as "Christian Crusaders" for it(for a time).
This woman quit a billion dollar Corporation because it supports abortion. Abortion is horrible and that's a fact.
But despite getting her name in the paper it's probably not going to make much of a dent at all. Perhaps some people will stop eating donuts for a while.

I remember when "The Last Temptation of Christ" came out and there was a huge outcry. People said "Boycott Universal Studios". A few people probably did for a time, but people love their movies just like they love their donuts, and now all of those people(at least 99% of them) are back watching movies as much as ever.

Imagine if this woman had stated "If I left here I would make half the salary I make now. In protest of this company's policy,I will give half of my present salary to
counselors who may be able to talk young women out of having abortions". She could have still gotten her name in the paper, stayed at her job as a shining light, and been giving to helpless women all at the same time.

I guess what I'm saying is that I don't think it's profitable to spend my time, money and effort "boycotting" a billion dollar Corporation, when I can take my money, time and effort and give to such things as Wycliffe Bible Translators, or other reputable organizations, to support unnamed faithful Bible translators attempting to get Bibles into the hands of people who don't have them in their language.

A "righteous zeal" to me is not trying to stop the world from doing what it does, but by backing and supporting those who are getting out the Word of God and preaching the Gospel, and helping the poor.

In the early 1900's a "zealous" group of Christians attempted to "ban" alcohol. They stood outside of bars, harrassing the patrons, attempting to embarrass them and get them to stop drinking liquor. They spent "loads" of money in their endeavor on advertising, lobbying, protests, etc.--and they eventually succeeded. But then gangsters started becoming exceedingly wealthy, and more people were drinking than ever because of the black market. This "righteous" endeavor lead to a horrible period in American history where the likes of Al Capone were made famous because of it. Maybe this shows what happens when Christians attempt to "change" the world rather than
convert it.  10 years or so later the amendment was repealed, and all of that labor, money and energy had been wasted on a type of "righteous zeal" not leading to righteousness.

Imagine if all of that money put into protests, boycotts and
marches against alcohol had been put into missionary work, or orphanages, or even medicine. Today we have those who stand outside of abortion clinics and harrass women, hold signs, etc. ---they spend all of their time, money and energy in this endeavor. They funnel "loads" of money into anti-abortion campaigns, trying to "change" the world. I have to ask again, what if all of that money was funneled into missionary work, evangelism, orphanages or even medicine for the poor?

Abortion is terrible and it's horrendous what happens to the unborn. But what if we could think about what is happening to the unsaved?? The unborn don't get a chance
at life, which is terrible. They truly have been "murdered" which is horrendous. I believe they go to be with the Lord.
But the unsaved are already alive, heading to an eternity without Christ. They will "suffer" eternally. And there are millions and millions of them all over the earth! When you start thinking of the Globe, and the Bibleless people, and the unsaved millions, a "boycott" begins to mean little compared with trying to reach people for Christ.

It's a lot of people but we can pray: http://www.gmi.org/ow/     click on "today's country".

Maybe if we put our efforts towards the unsaved, the amount of dead unborn children would diminish much faster.

God bless, Joe

 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2003, 07:44:05 am by Joe Sperling » Logged
sfortescue
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2003, 11:51:11 am »

Joe Sperling's arguments seem as if they would discourage people from participating in this Pro-Life cause.







(I rewrote this post because the original was poorly worded, sorry about that!)
« Last Edit: June 27, 2003, 05:11:30 am by Stephen M. Fortescue » Logged
Uh Oh
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« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2003, 05:35:33 pm »

Since Joe Sperling is taking a stand against the Pro-Life cause, it is evident that he doesn't believe in it.  His comparing it with the prohibition is what demonstrates his position on the issue.  If he honestly believed his argument that the effort is useless, then he wouldn't feel the need to persuade people not to participate.  Actually, he is worried that the effort might be successful and he doesn't want that.  Be clear on where he is coming from.

Stephen,

What color is the sky in your world???

Did you actually read what Joe posted?  Joe is simply suggesting another strategy to combat abortion.  He is simply suggesting taking a higher road to solving this problem.  

Have you ever noticed that protests or boycotts really do nothing to sway peoples opionion....

For example, on a smaller scale, I think back to the Martha Burk protests at the Augusta Golf Course the week of the Masters.  Do you actually think any men who were against women becoming of members of Augusta actually changed their stance..(And no, I am not talking about the men who caved due to the political impact it would have on their careers)  No one changed their mind and no one softened their stance.  The strategy completely backfired and Martha and all her supporters became an absolute joke!!!  It was entirely counterproductive.

My point is this...People who are  actively involved in pro choice/pro life debates are extremely passionate about their cause and very solid on their stance....Stephen - people like you that think picketing, boycotting and causing an absolute ruckus are the way to sways peoples opinion need to get a clue.

Go Joe!!!
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psalm51
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« Reply #13 on: June 26, 2003, 05:37:06 pm »

Since Joe Sperling is taking a stand against the Pro-Life cause, it is evident that he doesn't believe in it.  His comparing it with the prohibition is what demonstrates his position on the issue.  If he honestly believed his argument that the effort is useless, then he wouldn't feel the need to persuade people not to participate.  Actually, he is worried that the effort might be successful and he doesn't want that.  Be clear on where he is coming from.
After reading Joe's post I don't quite understand how you can say that he is against the Pro-Life cause. I don't think that he is saying that at all.
Read carefully.
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vbeers
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2003, 05:54:54 pm »

stephen- for someone who is so adamantly pro-life, you aren't acting very christian (not that you have to be one to be the other and not that this BB is only for christians).  

successful people are both efficient and effective.  they don't waste their time and energy in vain efforts.  rather, they plan, implement, and manage effective strategies for change.  i would say that joe is dead on (a smart guy) in his assessment of the pro-life movement (and other such efforts).  if we really want to change the world, if our heart's desire is truly to see soul's come to jesus, we will do so with love, virtue, and humility through the spread of the gospel of our lord and savior jesus christ.  

if our goal, on the other hand, is to be judgemental, intolerant, and self-righteous we will make efforts to throw peoples' sin in their face.  we do this via harrassing young, scared, pregnant women at abortion clinics.  we do this by embarassing drunks and drug addicts.  we do this by condemning people with life styles that vary from our own version of christianity.  quite frankly, we have no right.  

remember, "the greatest of these is love".  i have said the following so many times throughout my assembly experience (both while i was "in" and since i've been "out")...if, as christians, we can't reach out to others in love, regardless of the situation, we really need to question our own relationship with the lord...

-virginia
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