Pierced Ears

[amycahill]

I read on the Rick Ross site that someone thought the "pierced ear" rule was set in force because some African brother didn't like pierced ears.  I don't think that's the real reason.

I think the real reason is Sue Sapia.  Sue Sapia was a worker BEFORE she got married and then she married Chris Sapia, a leading brother.  So she was in neck deep.  Anyhow, she got it into her head that somehow the Bible said that you should not pierce your ears.  When I was in fellowship, you were allowed to wear pierced earrings and Sue publicly said that this was a matter of her own conscience and didn't try to push it on anybody.

BUT Sue was a worker and the wife of a leading brother.  And sometime, I don't know when, after I left fellowship, it became suddenly SINFUL to pierce your ears or wear pierced earrings if you already had pierced ears.

Very silly, really.  But it shows the lack of discernment in the group!

[themissus]

How about a pierced ... NOSE? ??  

I had "brother Timothy" approach me (and probably others, including my husband-to-be) several times "encouraging" me to take it out.  Apparently, I could never go on a missions trip to Africa with him, because when the folks get saved over there, they must forsake the ritual piercings, and my nose piercing would stumble them/compromise the testimony.  Yikes.

I did end up taking it out, partially out of a desire to conform, also recognizing that I did do out it out of rebellion in my very early twenties, God probably didn't like it AND last but not least, I couldn't grow old with it very gracefully - it had to come out sometime!  

There was much rejoicing when I took it out.  

Funny stuff.

[amycahill]

You know, there is a negative opinion about piercings in a LOT of churches.  Not usually pierced ears -- that's culturally acceptable.  But the other piercings -- nose, eyebrow, belly-button -- I think many churches frown upon them.  My mother, a devout Roman Catholic who doesn't think for herself, told my family at the dinner table that she had heard that piercings are Pagan.  My brother and I rounded on her and said in one voice, "Well, they're WRONG!!"  She was pretty mad at us for doing that, but she had bad information.  Piercings might have roots in Pagan cultures, but they also have roots in Jewish culture, so on what basis are you going to condemn these piercings?

I don't think God condemns piercings, though.  Quite frankly, I think God could care less.

But back to pierced ears.  Do you think it was really a brother from Africa that caused the pierced ears rule or did it spring from Sue Sapia like I'm theorizing?  It wasn't in place when I left, so I don't really know.  

Any information would be helpful!

God bless,
Amy

[Uh Oh]

You know, there is a negative opinion about piercings in a LOT of churches.  Not usually pierced ears -- that's culturally acceptable.  But the other piercings -- nose, eyebrow, belly-button -- I think many churches frown upon them.  My mother, a devout Roman Catholic who doesn't think for herself, told my family at the dinner table that she had heard that piercings are Pagan.  My brother and I rounded on her and said in one voice, "Well, they're WRONG!!"  She was pretty mad at us for doing that, but she had bad information.  Piercings might have roots in Pagan cultures, but they also have roots in Jewish culture, so on what basis are you going to condemn these piercings?
 

I don't think God condemns piercings, though.  Quite frankly, I think God could care less.

But back to pierced ears.  Do you think it was really a brother from Africa that caused the pierced ears rule or did it spring from Sue Sapia like I'm theorizing?  It wasn't in place when I left, so I don't really know.  

Any information would be helpful!

God bless,
Amy

I have two theories on the pierced earing rule:

1) Since none of the hierarchcy of the assembly (Tim, George, David)  had real jobs, they had way to much time on their hands.  Due to lack of things to do, they made stupid rules to enforce on the saints.

2)  Theory number two is that George Geftakys was concerned about his son Tim Geftakys'  extreme feminine tendecies.  Perhaps George put the earings rule in to block Tim from wearing long earings out in public.

[amycahill]

I have two theories on the pierced earring rule:

1) Since none of the hierarchy of the assembly (Tim, George, David)  had real jobs, they had way too much time on their hands.  Due to lack of things to do, they made stupid rules to enforce on the saints.

2)  Theory number two is that George Geftakys was concerned about his son Tim Geftakys'  extreme feminine tendencies.  Perhaps George put the earrings rule in to block Tim from wearing long earrings out in public.

I LOVE your theory about the stupid rules!  Let me see if I can think of a rule.  Okay -- all head coverings have to be white.  Black is "of the devil" and any other color doesn't symbolize purity.  Wait a second.  While looking for a verse that will back my new "teaching" I found very scary verses that really describe the Assembly:

"There is a group of people that curses its father and blesses not its mother.  There is a group that is pure in its own eyes, yet is not purged of its filth." -- Proverbs 30:11-12

Verse 11 reminds me of how we treated our families.  We didn't.  Families weren't involved in the Assembly and were therefore beneath us.  They came second to everything.  

Verse 12 is so obvious I don't think I even need to comment.

I didn't know about Tim Geftakys.  He'd look weird in long earrings alright.

God bless,
Amy

[amycahill]

I'm very glad I never came under that rule!  And glad that even then people could see it was ridiculous!

[Will Jones]

I recall that one Sister had gone to visit Fullerton from our assembly and came back and told the other sisters that she had met with Betty and Betty had told her that wearing earrings was not God's will because it was a pagan practice.  Besides, sisters in California had stopped wearing them also so she followed suit.  When our sister came back, within a week most or all of the sister wanted to follow the "godly example" of Betty in order to be "good examples" to others.  So from what I can remember, it was probably Betty who started it.

I cannot remember the verses from the OT, but there are some verses that speak against mutilating your body.  However, one has to be careful what one follows in the Bible--a book written according to a past time and culture.  If the Assembly was so based on the Bible, why did we not greet one another with a holy kiss?  Simple:  that was a tradition of the culture of the time the Bible was written:  so were head coverings, etc.

Regardless, wearing earrings SHOULD have been a matter of private conscience, BUT "standards of godliness" that were equated with the Will of God for those in Committed Fellowship basically "encouraged" sisters to conform to the rules that people in positions of authority introduced over time.  Other examples of such rules that should have been a matter of personal concience:  dating, owning TVs, etc.  The point is, under the old Assembly system, you were not considered "a good example," etc. unless you conformed to the Assembly rules, i.e., what George/Betty, etc. thought was the will of God.  The workers had to submit to George so everyone had to submit to George through the leadership of the local assembly, the leadership that George approved of to enforce HIS will, not God's will.  

If people are still not wearing earrings or are asking permission to date, etc., they are still following an old system and living in the shadow of George's will, not God's will.  "The Pattern of New Testament Simplicity" or "The House of God" was George's (and a few others') interpretation of the Bible, a system that he then used to enforce his conscience/his idea of God's will on others.  This system robbed people of deciding God's will for themselves and it will be one of the many things in George's life that will burn away as chaff at the judegement seat.  

[M2]

...
Regardless, wearing earrings SHOULD have been a matter of private conscience, BUT "standards of godliness" that were equated with the Will of God for those in Committed Fellowship basically "encouraged" sisters to conform to the rules that people in positions of authority introduced over time.  Other examples of such rules that should have been a matter of personal concience:  dating, owning TVs, etc.  The point is, under the old Assembly system, you were not considered "a good example," etc. unless you conformed to the Assembly rules, i.e., what George/Betty, etc. thought was the will of God.  The workers had to submit to George so everyone had to submit to George through the leadership of the local assembly, the leadership that George approved of to enforce HIS will, not God's will.  

If people are still not wearing earrings or are asking permission to date, etc., they are still following an old system and living in the shadow of George's will, not God's will.  "The Pattern of New Testament Simplicity" or "The House of God" was George's (and a few others') interpretation of the Bible, a system that he then used to enforce his conscience/his idea of God's will on others.  This system robbed people of deciding God's will for themselves and it will be one of the many things in George's life that will burn away as chaff at the judegement seat.  

Hi Will,

Greetings from igloo # 62 in Ottawa.  Your igloo has melted and you will have to re-build when you return.  

The law of the ear-rings was fully enforced after a worker's conference.  Actually we were told that it was only for the workers, but since the workers were the 'spiritual bunch' we all faithfully followed their example.  One rebellious worker sister never complied to the law of the pierced ears and actually got away with it.  Amazing!! BTW this is a compliment to the sister, because she did not go with the flow.

Things have changed here, people are starting to unclog their peirced ears by stuffing pierced ear-rings in them. But, actually is is the same old story.  People are still following 'trends' and 'fashions'.
The latest fashion is 'imitation' repentance. Kind of reminds me of imitation crab meat - looks like crab meat, tastes like crab meat, but it's Alaskan Pollock.  Before we imitated BIG-name LB from guess-where in his faithfulness to enforce Geftakysism.  Now we imitate the same BIG-name ex-LB in the way he is demonstrating his repentance.
The 'code of silence' is still enforced. And so is 'preserve-the-testimony-at-all-costs'.
I am no longer 'in' fellowship in the assembly.  My departure has revealed that people still 'in' react in the same 'old' habitual ways, even though they have claimed to have repented from Geftakysism.  I do not believe that it is possible to uproot Geftakysism that easily and especially not without outside help.

Anyway, that's all for now.
Lord bless,
Marcia M

[James]

 However, one has to be careful what one follows in the Bible--a book written according to a past time and culture.  
 

The entire Bible is not relevant? What part is? What part do I discard?

[James]

 
If people are still not wearing earrings or are asking permission to date, etc., they are still following an old system and living in the shadow of George's will, not God's will.  

What if I think putting piercings throughout my body is something the Lord would not approve of? What if I think that having a TV in my home will defile my family? What if I don't like the idea of some guy sucking on my 16 year old daughter's face or perhaps worse.

Moral values and standards are not copyright. The assembly did not invent them. Others may hold to those convictions. Breaking from assembly thought is not outward defiance of their decree. It is something inside.

[Arthur]

 However, one has to be careful what one follows in the Bible--a book written according to a past time and culture.  
 

The entire Bible is not relevant? What part is? What part do I discard?

Oh, don't mind Will.  He just doesn't believe the Bible is infallible and divinely inspired, that's all.

[M2]

Moral values and standards are not copyright. The assembly did not invent them. Others may hold to those convictions. Breaking from assembly thought is not outward defiance of their decree. It is something inside.

You're right brother. The point that Will was making was that the assembly imposed standards, some of which were unnecessary.  The LBs controlled rather than shepherded and guided (generally speaking).  Many issues were not issues of sin, but of having a different opinion. But the pressure was 'on' to conform to the LBs opinion, even on simple matters like buying a car e.g.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[Will Jones]

James and Arthur:  I greet you with a holy kiss!  

James, you asked me, "The entire Bible is not relevant? What part is? What part do I discard?"  Why are you asking me?  YOU need to think for yourself and seek God's will for YOU rather than go by the standards of what other people (Christian or non-Christian) think are right.  The point I am making is the Bible was written for a different place and time than most of us face.  It does not talk about cars, etc.  If you want to follow the Bible to the letter, then start greeting your brethren with a holy kiss and share all things in common like they did in the early church.  Go and sell all that you have and preach the gospel.  And be sure to speak in tongues and exercise all the rest of the gifts of the spirit.  NO?  Oh... Things do change.   Your situation is different than what the original recipients of the letters faced.  The question you have to ask yourself is--based on my understanding of the Bible and the reality I face in modern society--what do I believe God wants me to do in areas that are not made clear in the Bible.  So please be sure to answer your questions YOURSELF.  This is not the old Assembly where everything was very clear as rules or "godly standards."  

Marica has simplified what I meant to communicate.  Thanks, Sister!  If you are being "shunned" at present for deciding what you believe God's will is for you (re involvement in the old/new Assembly) then rejoice in Galatians 5:1ff--the verse I once "got approached by the leadership" for sharing in ministry.

Arthur, clearly you have not bothered to understand what I have written in the past.  I DO in fact believe the Bible is inspired, but the Bible was written according to a past cultural understanding of science, history and cosmology; thus, according to our modern perspective, the Bible is not infalible.  But this strays off topic and Verne has already tried to have a go at me so let us just stick to the subject at hand... or on ear.  Earrings!  Yes, I believe the Bible is a valuable guide but we must read it and interpret it with our mind instead of allowing some person to tell us what a "godly example" or what God's will is.  

My point is, as Marcia so cogently summarized, you have to use your mind to decide what God's will is for you and in areas where that is unclear in the Bible it is wrong to impose your conception of God's will on others.  Some eat meat sacrificed to idols and others don't.  As Paul said, LET EACH BE FULLY CONVINCED IN THEIR OWN MIND.  To insist that someone follows your conception of God's will is to impose your will on others.  This is not God's way--God has given us free will!  

Thank God!

[Heide]

Simple areas, like buying a car.....

A few years ago I was driving an old suburban and it kept breaking down. Everytime I took it to the mechanic I would come out with a whopping bill. I also hauled a horse trailer most of the time and the old suburban just didn't have enough go to get up the hills. So I started looking around for a pick up truck, diesel. I had read Consumer Reports and discovered for that year that Ford was number one. I didn't ask the leadership if I could. I figured this was business. So, yes, I bought the Ford F-350, Super Cab, Turbo Diesel, 4x4. It has all the qualities of hauling that horse trailer fully loaded with four horses up the hill with no gasping...

I showed up at a Bible Study with it, parked it on the street, walked in casually. I never made it inside because a LB stepped in front of me and blocked the entrance. "What is that you are driving?", I was asked. "A ford", was my response. "What's wrong with the suburban?", I was asked by the LB "I drive one, isn't it good enough for you?" He said in a real snotty tone. I said"It would be good enough for me if I hadn't just sunk $4,000. in repairs into it and it is still broken.." The next line of questioning, angered me. "Where did you get the money to pay for it?"

I ran across this question alot, Where did you get the money to pay for it and why do you have so much stuff?
Alot of this made me angry and I started questioning other things. I believe it was part of the catalyst that got me out.

One question: What business is it of yours?  I did ask! I got back the, well we are concerned about you. You'd think that if I could run a horse ranch I would have enough brains to find the right truck!

Heide

[vernecarty]

Simple areas, like buying a car.....



I showed up at a Bible Study with it, parked it on the street, walked in casually. I never made it inside because a LB stepped in front of me and blocked the entrance. "What is that you are driving?", I was asked. "A ford", was my response. "What's wrong with the suburban?", I was asked by the LB "I drive one, isn't it good enough for you?" He said in a real snotty tone. I said"It would be good enough for me if I hadn't just sunk $4,000. in repairs into it and it is still broken.." The next line of questioning, angered me. "Where did you get the money to pay for it?"

Heide

You really ought to publish the name of this imbecile so the apporpriate amount of scorn can be duly heaped upon him. We helped  to create despicable cretins such as this...
Verne