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Author Topic: George has relocated  (Read 25836 times)
Margaret
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« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2006, 05:29:48 am »

I was thinking more of the very elderly who no longer have the reasoning powers to figure that out. I know one such elderly retired missionary couple, who could be easily duped in their advanced age as they would not have been when younger.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2006, 10:52:27 pm »

  Hi Margaret!

     I wasn't disagreeing with your warning or the potential dangers that you mentioned re. GG's abilities to deceive those at Plymouth Village.  All I was trying to do was to inform readers of who the American Baptists are and what difficulties GG might have with his agenda in a group like this.

  This topic made me think about some articles/books I've read in the past re. which kind of religious philosophy is most susceptible to a Bible based "Apostle" type like GG.

  The book "Unholy Devotion", (the author's name has slipped my mind, but he was an inspiration to the work of Dr. Enroth) talks about his dealings with different groups of Christians and how they faced the issue of misplaced devotion to a religious man/woman and the surrounding social dynamics of these distinct cultures.

  Part of his job at one point in his denomination was to help churches recover from church splits and other difficulties.  Sometimes he was called upon to help churches that had been Modernistic but whom were now wanting to become more Biblically based (Evangelical).

  His biggest problems were with the more conservative churches and on the other side he found the former liberal believers much easier to help. 

   I say none of this to promote Modernist/liberal theology (nor did he btw) but only to present what seems to me an interesting conundrum:

  Why are seeminly more fully engaged and devoted Evangelical believers more likely to follow a false apostle like GG, vs. those not as sure and devoted in their faith?

     I no longer have the book referenced above, but maybe there are those who might be interested in trying to answer this question or disagree with it's premise altogether.

          (P.S.--- I still think Joe could come up with a good bit of lesson via sarcasm on life with GG at Plymouth Village---- Wink)

                                                            God Bless,  Mark C. 

   

 
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Oscar
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« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2006, 10:16:44 am »

I was thinking more of the very elderly who no longer have the reasoning powers to figure that out. I know one such elderly retired missionary couple, who could be easily duped in their advanced age as they would not have been when younger.

On the other hand, most missionaries have had some sort of Bible School and/or seminary training, and have seen and experienced many different Christians and organizations.

Although it was new to us when we were recruited, Bretherenism is very well known and understood among pastors.   I recall a Baptist pastor in the valley that translated the "Golden Ladder" or something like that as a favor to Al Hartman.  His comment was "This is ridiculous."

Thomas Maddux
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outdeep
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« Reply #33 on: July 03, 2006, 07:05:36 pm »

On the other hand, most missionaries have had some sort of Bible School and/or seminary training, and have seen and experienced many different Christians and organizations.

Although it was new to us when we were recruited, Bretherenism is very well known and understood among pastors.   I recall a Baptist pastor in the valley that translated the "Golden Ladder" or something like that as a favor to Al Hartman.  His comment was "This is ridiculous."

Thomas Maddux
True.  Of course, this is all speculation, but I don't envision George dumping the Heavenly Ladder on folks in the rec center at the senior home.  I see him dropping statements such as "when I preached that conference in Kenya . . . " or "when I held a series of lectures at the University" or "when my ministry turned scores of hippies around to serve Christ" and then he would see whose eyes light up and want to know more.  These are the folks he'll be chummy with.

He may be deluded, but he is no dummy.
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brian
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« Reply #34 on: July 03, 2006, 09:17:13 pm »

i agree - george is very likely to swagger around boasting about his past "accomplishments", with all the usual embellishments. he certainly knows enough not to hit people with wacky cultish rhetoric until they are properly primed. and if they are duly impressed by his tall tales, he will at some point start trying to use his fabricated prestige to gain influence and control over the people around him. after that, he will certainly have no qualms about exploiting them as much as possible. this is what a narcissistic personality does. he will always believe, with total confidence, that he is fully entitled to whatever he can extract from those around him. and confidence can be very convincing.

i am planning to write a letter to the management of that retirement community. i would imagine they would be at least somewhat concerned about the effect someone like george could have on the stability and reputation of their community. at least concerned enough to keep an eye out. i would encourage others to do the same. the more letters they get, the more seriously they will take them.

here is their contact info:

Plymouth Village
900 Salem Drive
Redlands, CA 92373-6189
909-793-9195
email: info@plymouthvillage.org

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Margaret
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« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2007, 01:29:37 am »

Rumor has it that George has left Mike Almanzor's group. Apparently he has not been allowed to give stated ministry on Sunday afternoons at the Riverside group, so he has left, taking some people with him to start something separate. This is third-hand information from someone in contact with "brethren who would know." So far, we have been unable to confirm it. Anyone wanna' bet the new group meets in the rec room at Plymouth Village in Redlands?
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outdeep
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« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2007, 11:12:52 pm »

George:  Come on Saints.  There is no excuse to be late to pre-prayer.  If you can be ten minutes late, you can be fifteen minutes early.

Doris:  But, I was on the dialysis machine.

George:  You need to reckon your self-justifications dead.

Betty:  Where is my juice you were going to make for a consequence? 

Doris:  But, I'm in a wheel chair.  I can't reach the counter!

Betty:  God exaults the humble.  Your problem is that you love yourself.

Meanwhile . . .

(Scrape ... thump  ... scrape ... thump ... scrap  ... thump)

Herman (leaning against his walker):  OK, doorkeepers (pant pant), we need (pant pant) to man the doors (pant pant) so the enemy (pant pant) doesn't come in (pant pant) and disrupt the meeting.
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amycahill
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« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2007, 04:16:25 am »

PRAY FOR EXECUTION OF GOD'S JUDGMENT ON GEORGE GEFTAKYS!

...surely his iniquity is now full...
Verne

As much as I personally agree that George and Betty deserve judgment, I prefer to leave that judgment up to God.  I have been sometimes instructed to pray for mercy; sometimes to stand aside and let God do His thing.  I asked God how He wanted me to pray for George and Betty, and I didn't feel He was asking me to pray for mercy; rather that His Will would be done.  This is how I pray for such people, and there are a number of them in my life -- that God's Will would be done.  Remember, God brought down the assemblies -- but in HIS timing.  God knows what He wants to do with George and Betty.  I find it safest to ask that God's Will be done in ALL my prayers no matter what else I may ask for -- that way, the best will be done even if what *I* am asking for is inadequate or even a mistake, because I don't have God's perfect knowledge!  I DO pray for God's justice to catch up to people in some cases, but always with the caveat that His Will be done.
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amycahill
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« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2007, 04:22:45 am »

Many now taste freedom in Christ, and God has made us free to be warrior poets. What will you do with that freedom? George is doing his thing again. Will you not only pray, but call OR write and do something that the wee sheep might be protected?                                                 

Thanks for the rallying call and the information.  I spoke to a pastor at Calvary Chapel Redlands and gave him the link to Assembly Reflections.
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amycahill
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« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2007, 04:42:17 am »

here is their contact info:

Plymouth Village
900 Salem Drive
Redlands, CA 92373-6189
909-793-9195
email: info@plymouthvillage.org

Thanks for the info.  I sent an e-mail.
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vernecarty
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« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2007, 05:48:56 am »

As much as I personally agree that George and Betty deserve judgment, I prefer to leave that judgment up to God.  I have been sometimes instructed to pray for mercy; sometimes to stand aside and let God do His thing.  I asked God how He wanted me to pray for George and Betty, and I didn't feel He was asking me to pray for mercy; rather that His Will would be done.  This is how I pray for such people, and there are a number of them in my life -- that God's Will would be done.  Remember, God brought down the assemblies -- but in HIS timing.  God knows what He wants to do with George and Betty.  I find it safest to ask that God's Will be done in ALL my prayers no matter what else I may ask for -- that way, the best will be done even if what *I* am asking for is inadequate or even a mistake, because I don't have God's perfect knowledge!  I DO pray for God's justice to catch up to people in some cases, but always with the caveat that His Will be done.

There is of course wisdom in what you say.
I would like to point out a few things I think are relevant to the request I made concerning praying for judgment on Geftakys.
Apostasy is different from civil transgression.
There is no place in Scripture that provides for civil remedy for apostasy.
George is unquestionably an apostate.
Apostasy uniquely takes place in the context of the fellowship of the Church of Jesus Christ.
It is my personal theory that the rise of a man like George Geftakys in any gathering of God's people is stark testimony to the weakness and lack of spiritual maturity of that  gathering.
Paul understood this danger and therefore issues one of the strongest warnings in all of Scripture to the Ephesian elders at Miletus.
In matters of apostasy, judgment necessarily begins at the house of God. Clearly this is what the Bible teaches.
Put another way, I can state with absolute certitude that it is indeed God's will that every false teacher, who is an apostate, shall be judged.
Any question of God's will then applies only to the matter of timing,
as you point out, and not of judgment.
That post of mine you quoted from four years ago was prompted by my conviction of the applicaton of Peter's words to George Geftakys.

  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2007, 06:06:00 am by vernecarty » Logged
amycahill
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« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2007, 02:13:03 pm »

There is of course wisdom in what you say.
I would like to point out a few things I think are relevant to the request I made concerning praying for judgment on Geftakys.
Apostasy is different from civil transgression.
There is no place in Scripture that provides for civil remedy for apostasy.
George is unquestionably an apostate.
Apostasy uniquely takes place in the context of the fellowship of the Church of Jesus Christ.
It is my personal theory that the rise of a man like George Geftakys in any gathering of God's people is stark testimony to the weakness and lack of spiritual maturity of that  gathering.
Paul understood this danger and therefore issues one of the strongest warnings in all of Scripture to the Ephesian elders at Miletus.
In matters of apostasy, judgment necessarily begins at the house of God. Clearly this is what the Bible teaches.
Put another way, I can state with absolute certitude that it is indeed God's will that every false teacher, who is an apostate, shall be judged.
Any question of God's will then applies only to the matter of timing,
as you point out, and not of judgment.
That post of mine you quoted from four years ago was prompted by my conviction of the applicaton of Peter's words to George Geftakys.

  But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
 And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.


Oops...I didn't catch you had posted that FOUR YEARS AGO.  My bad!

I couldn't agree with you more that George deserves judgment, and, furthermore, will receive it.  I just like to leave up to God HOW and WHEN He will judge George and Betty, and therefore pray for His Will instead of judgment, assuming in this case that it is, in fact, His will to judge them.  I pray this same way for my brother and sister-in-law, who God has assured me He intends to judge, and I can see for myself by what is going on in their lives that the clouds are gathering and the ax is poised to strike.  God told me to pray for them ONLY that His Will would be done.  I rest assured in His promise that His judgment, when it falls, will be "spectacular".  But He has also told me to be patient and wait for Him.

George and Betty's time WILL come.
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