George is Rebuilding his house

[vernecarty]

I too had expected some movememt by now from those of you with proximity. I am in the Midwest and would be hard pressed to take this kind of initiative. Is there anyone willing to take a stand?
Verne

[editor]

I too had expected some movememt by now from those of you with proximity. I am in the Midwest and would be hard pressed to take this kind of initiative. Is there anyone willing to take a stand?
Verne

The reason I did the website, put in the time, spent the money, wrote the articles, etc.  is because I knew it had to be done, and that no one else would do it. I knew that I would have absolutely zero support, and plenty of opposition; Geftakysservants---I used to be one---are passive, fearful people, and usually won't do anything unless ordered to.

Those of you out there who want to do something about this, yes, I mean you...please understand that nobody is going to do this for you.  You have to take action, make decisions, generally act like people with convictions.  

I am not going to do this.  It wouldn't be fair to you.  Sure, I could do all of this; I've already proven that.  However, that is not the point in all of this.  The point is to take responsibility for our (your) part in George's dark empire.  If I do all the work, it may or may not be effective, but I do know one thing.  It will not help any of George's past victims.  Those of you who have been injured by him and his servants need to realize that you are not weak, that you are whole in Christ, and that you bear responsibility for what has happened to you, and the part you played in the abuse of others.  You were NOT innocent bystanders!  Far from it.  We were passive, cowardly bystanders, or worse yet, we were perpetrators!

You won't believe the blessing that will come in your lives if you step out on faith and act like a whole person.  You don't even have to be brave, taking out a newpaper ad is not like storming the beach at Normandy!  However, to sit by and say things like, "We should do something," and then not do anything, is only going to give these people time to regroup.  Don't let George hold you in contempt!  

He thinks the women he abused are too weak to do anything about it---he holds them in contempt.  (I hope he isn't right about this)

He knows the former leaders don't have the testicles to do anything about the financial abuse they know about.  He rightfully holds them in contempt!  They are too busy travelling around the country performing weddings for their old Geftakysservant friends.

George hopes that his former supporters are too weak and cowardly as well.  Make no mistake about it, George is afraid.  He knows that his freedom hangs by a thread.  It would only take one or two brave people to act on what they know, and George would be able to start a new prison ministry.

In the meantime, no one wants to take out an ad in the local paper to warn people about George's new efforts.

Where are the studies?  Who is coming to them?  Who is going to suck it up and act like a man?  

Perhaps the women can act more like men than the ex-assembly men???

Prove me wrong people.  

Brent

[faith]

It's true Brent.  There are no real men.  Prove me if I'm wrong.  Which is why the women are all the more victimized.  Think of poor Janine Almanzor and her family!  It needs to be the former leaders and men who confront and stop George.  Not the women who have already lost everything in their confession of George's gross immorality.  They are just trying to pick up the pieces of their devastated lives.  Will anyone speak up for their protection or for the protection of future victims?

Like you said Brent, we no longer need to fear these men, now that we are in the light.  Their darkness is easily perceived and crushed.  I am writing to Janine Almanzor and others.  

Will anyone else act?

[psalm51]

Yes, I plan to write letters. Poor Janine.  

[editor]

Dear Faith and Pat:

I am honored to stand with you.  I am doing quite a bit here as well, but I must keep quiet about it for now.  I am so glad that there are some women who have courage, convictions and the guts to act on them.

All we need is one or two young boys, who have the courage to at least gainsay the teacher, or tell their friend who is stealing that they shouldn't do that.  We don't need William Wallaces for this fight.  Beaver Cleavers would do.  Too bad the Geftakysservant men are such eunuchs.

I am actually very sad right now, considering all of this.  May God raise up a Deborah or two!  

Brent----not idle, but very active.  However, I will NOT go to Riverside and do the leg work for this.  May God seperate the sheep and the goats!

I thank God for those of you that have made a difference:

Steve and Margaret, Tom, Mark, Kirk, Pat and others.

Brent

[Uh Oh]

My question is this...

What are the objectives?  Is the only objective to warn people about George via newspaper ads and email to other churches?  I think that is way to soft and would only do good for a limited time.  In order to stop this monster, I think he needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  For crying out loud, this guy and his sons have illegally mishandled and misappopriated funds for years now and more than likely have cheated horifically on their taxes.  

[editor]

My question is this...

What are the objectives?  Is the only objective to warn people about George via newspaper ads and email to other churches?  I think that is way to soft and would only do good for a limited time.  In order to stop this monster, I think he needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  For crying out loud, this guy and his sons have illegally mishandled and misappopriated funds for years now and more than likely have cheated horifically on their taxes.  

The objectives are whatever you want them to be.  Newspaper advertisement is a great way to warn potential converts.

Many of us fantasize about what should be done, how many of us do something about it?

more than likely have cheated horifically on their taxes.  

Have you done anything about this?  Do you have records of what you gave to the ministry?  Have you made any phone calls?  If the answer is yes, please don't go into detail on the BB.  If the answer is no, then I think you might have an objective.

Brent

[M2]

The reason I did the website, put in the time, spent the money, wrote the articles, etc.  is because I knew it had to be done, and that no one else would do it. I knew that I would have absolutely zero support, and plenty of opposition; Geftakysservants---I used to be one---are passive, fearful people, and usually won't do anything unless ordered to.

Those of you out there who want to do something about this, yes, I mean you...please understand that nobody is going to do this for you.  You have to take action, make decisions, generally act like people with convictions.  

I am not going to do this.  It wouldn't be fair to you.  Sure, I could do all of this; I've already proven that.  However, that is not the point in all of this.  The point is to take responsibility for our (your) part in George's dark empire.  If I do all the work, it may or may not be effective, but I do know one thing.  It will not help any of George's past victims.  Those of you who have been injured by him and his servants need to realize that you are not weak, that you are whole in Christ, and that you bear responsibility for what has happened to you, and the part you played in the abuse of others.  You were NOT innocent bystanders!  Far from it.  We were passive, cowardly bystanders, or worse yet, we were perpetrators!
...
Brent

I agree with Brent that each one should do what they are able to do to stop GG and his system. I am unable to do anything about Riverside (being 3000+ miles away and not having met any of those still meeting with GG there). I echo Chuck Miller's (or is it Vanasse) sentiment, 'never again' will this man influence others and I just be a bystander.

My personal experience is that if you say anything of why you have left, you are going to be labelled as being divisive and be excluded anyway, so why not live up to that reputation. I have become the 'troubler' of the local gathering here, but I am willing to take the pressure, and to put on the pressure. Ever heard of peer pressure? "You're the peer, so put on the pressure!" -- not my original, but I learned it well.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[editor]

My personal experience is that if you say anything of why you have left, you are going to be labelled as being divisive and be excluded anyway, so why not live up to that reputation. I have become the 'troubler' of the local gathering here, but I am willing to take the pressure, and to put on the pressure. Ever heard of peer pressure? "You're the peer, so put on the pressure!" -- not my original, but I learned it well.

Lord bless,
Marcia

Yes!  Add another sister to the rank of those doing something tangible.  Speaking out loud is a huge thing, because people know who you are, and they will shun you.  How much easier to do stuff like ads, private letters to pastors, etc.

I am glad there are some "manly" sisters around who are willing to stand for what they believe!   It would seem that Betty's instruction to the men was far more effective than whoever it was that taught the women!

Brent

[Oscar]

  In order to stop this monster, I think he needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.  For crying out loud, this guy and his sons have illegally mishandled and misappopriated funds for years now and more than likely have cheated horifically on their taxes.  

When you say, "this guy and his sons have illegally mishandled and misappropriated funds for years now".

I am sure that they have immorally mishandled funds.  However, I am not aware of any actual lawbreaking.  
If I give you money with no up front agreement about how it is to be used, you haven't broken any laws if you spend it on ice cream.

Years ago I knew a sister who was a licensed tax preparer.  She did GG's income tax, and I think she did some other worker's too.
She told  me that they filed tax returns, claiming their income was from gifts.

Now that isn't really technically correct...however, the cash contributions in the box could definitely be called "gifts" to the ministry.  So at best you can say that this is a grey area.

So, unless you know more than I do, I think this is a dead end.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[vernecarty]

Now that isn't really technically correct...however, the cash contributions in the box could definitely be called "gifts" to the ministry.  So at best you can say that this is a grey area.

So, unless you know more than I do, I think this is a dead end.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Not necesssarily Tom..it all depends on what George and Betty reported. There are many, many brethren who have a pretty good idea of what the assembly in Fullerton and the various gatherings around the country contributed yearly. The point is that it all went to George's house. There is a mountain of legally actionable avenues to pursue with regard to his malfeasance...just let the IRS get a whiff...
Verne

[Uh Oh]

When you say, "this guy and his sons have illegally mishandled and misappropriated funds for years now".

I am sure that they have immorally mishandled funds.  However, I am not aware of any actual lawbreaking.  
If I give you money with no up front agreement about how it is to be used, you haven't broken any laws if you spend it on ice cream.

Years ago I knew a sister who was a licensed tax preparer.  She did GG's income tax, and I think she did some other worker's too.
She told  me that they filed tax returns, claiming their income was from gifts.

Now that isn't really technically correct...however, the cash contributions in the box could definitely be called "gifts" to the ministry.  So at best you can say that this is a grey area.

So, unless you know more than I do, I think this is a dead end.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

I am quite sure that if people would have known that the money they gave was being spent so George and his sons could live over their heads, or was going to his sons car part collection, or was going to his enhance David's porn collection, they probably would not have given as freely or if at all.  The announcement was made once a week that there was a box in the back part of the room, blah, blah, blah, blah that was going to the needs of the work...If money is being given for one thing and is being used for something completely different, then I have to believe that is mishandling of funds.

Did George ever list his ministry as  a non profit organization?  Was the proper legal/paper work ever done for this to be accomplished?  

[Oscar]

Dear Uh Oh,

You wrote,

"I am quite sure that if people would have known that the money they gave was being spent so George and his sons could live over their heads, or was going to his sons car part collection, or was going to his enhance David's porn collection, they probably would not have given as freely or if at all.  The announcement was made once a week that there was a box in the back part of the room, blah, blah, blah, blah that was going to the needs of the work...If money is being given for one thing and is being used for something completely different, then I have to believe that is mishandling of funds.

Did George ever list his ministry as  a non profit organization?  Was the proper legal/paper work ever done for this to be accomplished?"

In answer to your question about  non-profit status, GG had two corportations.  One for profit, which ran the "printing ministry", and another non-profit one for the school and, I suspect, other things.

As to your statement about, "If people would have known...".

All they had to do was look.

 I must confess that I wasn't thinking about this much in the early years of my involvement.  But by the late '70s I could see that GG was living pretty high on the hog while I was suffering some financial stress and giving sacrificially.  

David Geftakys, as far as I know, has never had a job since early adulthood.  He was able to buy a house.  How could he do that?

Only if some VERY CONSIDERABLE amounts of money were coming from somewhere.

So...I quit giving them money.

The real problem was that people weren't willing to follow the evidence.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[vernecarty]

Dear Uh Oh,

.

So...I quit giving them money.


God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Funny..the last few months I was there I sent all my regular giving to "Thru The Bible Radio"...as you said Tom, entirely a mattter of conscience...
Verne

[William Wallace]

AN UPDATE

Bravo to Clarence for what he's doing. I know there are many in contact with me who are also doing something to let their concerns made known about George's movements in the Southern California area.

I wrote my emails, letters, and phone calls. BUT the big thing: PRAY.