George is Rebuilding his house

[enchilada]

It seems that George doesn't have much time remaining in his life, given his age, to build much of an organization all over again.  His days are numbered.  Also, with the information on him available on the internet, and the likelihood that his target audience may read that information, it seems that he doens't pose much of a threat for building much of a cult following as before.  

His adult children, with their reputations blown away on the internet, also don't seem to pose much of a threat.  They'll probably have the money that their daddy stole from his unwitting followers and will probably live off it like like a pair of underdeveloped, unsoaring eagles that were and continue to be too cowardly to leave the nest and live on their own.

So when George is gone, hopefully he will have repented.  In the meantime, there doesn't seem to be much to be concerned about.  On the other hand, the coffee enemas and spinach-mold milkshakes might give him another 20 years, so maybe he'll build another assembly that's bigger than before.  

[glossyibis]

I frequently look at this thread to see if anyone has any news on George Tim or David. Not much has been said about their recent exploits. I was hoping that this thread would be devoted to keeping tabs on them.
Maybe someone could start one just fro info on that triumvirate. Kind of like a bird watchers hotline where you look to see the last place the slap happy rappidappy was spotted . Place , time , what was he doing, that kind of stuff.   steve harris

[editor]

I frequently look at this thread to see if anyone has any news on George Tim or David. Not much has been said about their recent exploits. I was hoping that this thread would be devoted to keeping tabs on them.
Maybe someone could start one just fro info on that triumvirate. Kind of like a bird watchers hotline where you look to see the last place the slap happy rappidappy was spotted . Place , time , what was he doing, that kind of stuff.   steve harris

Hi Steve,

I think this thread makes it pretty clear what George is up to.

Tim, as of a couple months ago, was selling RV's in Orange County.

David is working/studying at the Maritime Academy in San Francisco.

Several of the Ex-LB's from Assemblies that are still meeting, are "itinerate" preachers to the other Assemblies, Tim is one of these.  I predict that they will try to rebuild the accursed system.

Of course, none of this really matters much, because very few, if any people will do anything about it.

Brent

[al Hartman]

I frequently look at this thread to see if anyone has any news on George Tim or David. Not much has been said about their recent exploits. I was hoping that this thread would be devoted to keeping tabs on them.
Maybe someone could start one just fro info on that triumvirate. Kind of like a bird watchers hotline where you look to see the last place the slap happy rappidappy was spotted . Place , time , what was he doing, that kind of stuff.   steve harris

Hi Steve,

I think this thread makes it pretty clear what George is up to.

Tim, as of a couple months ago, was selling RV's in Orange County.

David is working/studying at the Maritime Academy in San Francisco.

Several of the Ex-LB's from Assemblies that are still meeting, are "itinerate" preachers to the other Assemblies, Tim is one of these.  
             
I predict that they will try to rebuild the accursed system.

Of course, none of this really matters much, because very few, if any people will do anything about it.

Brent

     Brent, do you mean by your last statement that not many people will follow them, not many will resist them, or both?

al

[editor]

I frequently look at this thread to see if anyone has any news on George Tim or David. Not much has been said about their recent exploits. I was hoping that this thread would be devoted to keeping tabs on them.
Maybe someone could start one just fro info on that triumvirate. Kind of like a bird watchers hotline where you look to see the last place the slap happy rappidappy was spotted . Place , time , what was he doing, that kind of stuff.   steve harris

Hi Steve,

I think this thread makes it pretty clear what George is up to.

Tim, as of a couple months ago, was selling RV's in Orange County.

David is working/studying at the Maritime Academy in San Francisco.

Several of the Ex-LB's from Assemblies that are still meeting, are "itinerate" preachers to the other Assemblies, Tim is one of these.  
             
I predict that they will try to rebuild the accursed system.

Of course, none of this really matters much, because very few, if any people will do anything about it.

Brent

     Brent, do you mean by your last statement that not many people will follow them, not many will resist them, or both?

al

I mean that not many people will resist them.  Some will, and some have.  Most people will talk about it, maybe call someone.  Very few will do more than that.

Also, you are right, not many people will follow them.  That is a good thing.  George is done, but there are still a few people out there who could do some mischief in a small, mean way.

Brent

[M2]

I think this thread makes it pretty clear what George is up to.

Tim, as of a couple months ago, was selling RV's in Orange County.

David is working/studying at the Maritime Academy in San Francisco.

Several of the Ex-LB's from Assemblies that are still meeting, are "itinerate" preachers to the other Assemblies, Tim is one of these.  I predict that they will try to rebuild the accursed system.

Of course, none of this really matters much, because very few, if any people will do anything about it.

Brent

Ex-assemblyites who remain 'assembly' sympathetic are now infecting other healthy churches with their 'poisonous stew'.  I honestly am concerned for those gatherings.

Marcia

[delila]

This scares me: rebuilding by GG.  I'll do what I can.  I'm nearly ready to send the novel off (my study of total zero) and his trashy organization features prominently though it is not all the novel is about.  Apathy is one thing, but what Marcia quoted about people having their brains shut off - that was me and that remains my main concern.  I have had some discussions with those who left and part of them remains 'in'.  Though they have their doubts about G, his words yet circulate in their brains, his ideas, his consciousness.  That's what scares me most.  What can we do?
delila

[editor]

What can we do?
delila

There isn't any formula for sucess in these things, what is important is that we conduct ourselves with a clear conscience, which almost always means courage.

I haven't met anyone, not one person, who left an Assembly before the website, who doesn't have eerily similiar stories of abuse and manipulation.

The overwhelming majority of the people who left when George and David were exposed a little more than a year ago also have the same, consistent stories.

The people that never left, and cling to the Assembly,  (even if theirs closed its doors) are the only people who don't "get it."  They remain decieved.

We can only have limited sucess with the latter group.  Afterall, if finding out that their supreme leader was a total fraud, and that their under-leaders were inept cowards, or worse didn't wake them up, they are going to have to wait for something stronger.

Where we can do something is to warn others who might come into contact with the group.  Tell the Campus Crusade groups at the colleges where the Assembly still has outreaches.  Warn them, give them printed literature, and tell them about the website.  

Another thing that can be done is to buy up our opportunities to talk to people still "in."  Tell your story,  confront your abusers,  plead for repentance and reconciliation.  There are so many people who are under the mistaken impression that they can just forget about this and "move on."  They can't,  guaranteed.

What we can do is get honest, courageous, and vocal, in varying degrees.  Then, we can heal, and we just might be able to help someone else get free.  

Imagine where you would be today if no one ever spoke up about the truth.

Brent

[al Hartman]

  ...There are so many people who are under the mistaken impression that they can just forget about this and "move on."  They can't,  guaranteed.

     I did.  I did my best to put the assembly and its teachings behind me, and I moved on...  To be precise, I virtually moved on a tread mill.  I moved, but I went nowhere.  For over 20 years.  And despite my best efforts, the taint of assembly teaching haunted me like a familiar spirit.

     It was one year ago today that I came onboard this bulletin board and my recovery began.  It has been painful and wonderful, and while my indebtedness is entirely to the Lord Jesus Christ, I rejoice to declare that His vessel of my deliverance was the ministry of Brent Tr0ckman and those who joined with him to speak the Truth of God and shine His Light into the darkness of my heart and soul.

     I remember so clearly the early days in Fullerton, when all the children in the assembly were very young and the sisters taught them the song about how the wise man built his house upon the Rock and the foolish man built his house upon the sand.  We have seen that song, and the scripture upon which it is based, fulfilled.  For when the winds came and the waves beat upon it, the house that George built fell, and great was the fall of it.  Only that which was built upon Christ stands fast.

     All praise to Him Who reigns above in majesty supreme...

al Hartman

[vernecarty]

  ...There are so many people who are under the mistaken impression that they can just forget about this and "move on."  They can't,  guaranteed.

     I did.  I did my best to put the assembly and its teachings behind me, and I moved on...  To be precise, I virtually moved on a tread mill.  I moved, but I went nowhere.  For over 20 years.  And despite my best efforts, the taint of assembly teaching haunted me like a familiar spirit.

 al Hartman

Sobering. As tragic as the stories of physical and psychological abuse ocurring in the assemblies are, it has always been my contention that the most serious damage done to the victims of George Geftakys is spiritual. Al makes a critical point in that even with awakening consciousness of what was done to our souls by this herald of hell, (don't talk to me about temperance when it comes to wicked men like George Geftakys...please!!) the recovery and restoration is painful and protracted, probably life-long. God is able nonetheless.
The people refusing to understand this and respond accordingly are in far more serious trouble than they can imagine; may God have mercy on them...

 What can we do?
delila

I am reminded of the sage observation that all that is needed for evil to flourish in this world is for good men (and women) to do nothing. This is the great indictment of the Geftakys era. People did nothing! That is not an option.
Men and women who love Christ must pray.
They must speak.
They must act.
It's evident that his iniquity is not  yet full. Prayer must be offered to God that he would do a quick work, and cut it short in righteousness.
There are many more like George Geftakys abroad. We are told that evil men and seducers will wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.(2 Timothy 3:13).
We may as well get  used to it.

What can we do?
delila

They remain decieved.

We can only have limited sucess with the latter group.  Afterall, if finding out that their supreme leader was a total fraud, and that their under-leaders were inept cowards, or worse didn't wake them up, they are going to have to wait for something stronger.


Brent

It may be that some have knowingly made their choice. In veiw of what has been uncovered about the nature of this man and his so called minstry, there is more going on here at this stage than mere deception in my view.


 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.   For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
John 3:19-21
Verne

[delila]

We assume things:
1) life is fair.  
2) our justice system works (sigh)
3) people really want to know the truth
4) people can not train their consciences to believe a lie - permanently

That being said, despite the fact that we'd all like things to be 'made right' - it may never be.  How many people have logged on to say: "Gee, thanks for this website, I was thinking of going to a GG bible study... but now I won't."

Who has forgotten what it's like to be bullied and know that, no matter how your stomach hurts, you're going to do exactly what 'God's servant' wants you to?
delila

[editor]

How many people have logged on to say: "Gee, thanks for this website, I was thinking of going to a GG bible study... but now I won't."

Who has forgotten what it's like to be bullied and know that, no matter how your stomach hurts, you're going to do exactly what 'God's servant' wants you to?
delila

Actually, over two dozen people have made comments like,  "I was thinking about joining up, until I read the website."

Many people left as a result of reading the info on RickRoss, before this website was conceived of.  In addition, lots of parent have contacted me for info, advice, and to thank me for "giving them their children back."

Professors at seminaries have contacted me, as have authors, and people who work in specific branches of the United States Government.  The latter group have their own version of "Code of Silence."

The effect that the website has had on people is incredible.  Even now, not a week goes by without some interesting phone calls or email.

The problem is that the vast majority of people remain passive.   They might get help from what others have done, which is awesome!  However,  most people are content to help themselves, but don't have the courage to act on their own responsibility.

Here is a prime example:

Rachel acted.  Was it hard?  Absolutely.  Did it make a difference?  ALL THE DIFFERENCE!

The women who were George's victims:

Told a few people, have kept quiet ever since.  Did it make a difference?  Yes, it got George excommunicated, which is amazing.  However, their silence has made it possible for the groups still meeting to call their stories, "All lies," even as they did Rachel's and Judy's for all those years.

I won't say anything further, and won't reveal here who these women are, but if they were to do something, even in writing,  I promise that it would start another tidal wave.  BTW,  these women were  influential, prominent people in "The Work." In spite of the fact that they were horribly victimized, they have a duty to speak out.  This is my opinion.  I can't and won't speak for them.

In my understanding, people who carry about secrets of this sort, while the abuser goes free, never really heal.  Those who courageously confront and vanquish their abusers fare far better.  

George lost his precious ministry, now he needs to be held accountable for what he did.  Yes, I am still praying for his repentance.

Brent

[BeckyW]

After leaving the Annandale assembly some of us listened to part of a tape series that included a message called Blessed are Those that Mourn, from Matthew 5.  Blessed are those that mourn for they shall be comforted.  Mourn was an action word.  The gist of the message was blessed are those who take the painful matter/issue/sin/experience or whatever, out and look at it, admit it, face it, think it through.  They are the ones that find comfort.
If you cover it up, deny it, gloss over it, run away from it ...no comfort.  Something to think about.

BW

[psalm51]

Does anyone have any information about the seminar held recently in S. California? Maybe in the West LA area?

[struggling along]

Here is a prime example:

Rachel acted.  Was it hard?  Absolutely.  Did it make a difference?  ALL THE DIFFERENCE!

The women who were George's victims:

Told a few people, have kept quiet ever since.  Did it make a difference?  Yes, it got George excommunicated, which is amazing.  However, their silence has made it possible for the groups still meeting to call their stories, "All lies," even as they did Rachel's and Judy's for all those years.

I won't say anything further, and won't reveal here who these women are, but if they were to do something, even in writing,  I promise that it would start another tidal wave.  BTW,  these women were  influential, prominent people in "The Work." In spite of the fact that they were horribly victimized, they have a duty to speak out.  This is my opinion.  I can't and won't speak for them.

In my understanding, people who carry about secrets of this sort, while the abuser goes free, never really heal.  Those who courageously confront and vanquish their abusers fare far better.  

---------
Brent and all:
I'm afraid I don't agree.  There is a difference between spousal physical abuse and sexual abuse in a clergy situation.  The general public is far more sympathetic of a wife being hit by her husband than they are of a woman being abused by an authority figure.  After all, she probably did something to precipitate it.  Or at least she could have said "no"!

If  you do some research on places like advocateweb.org you will find some very disturbing information.  Or better yet, read Dee Miller's website at takecourage.com.  The difference is, that it is a relationship between two adults, therefore it must be "consensual".  Women (and men) in the church have been battling this and are making very little headway.

You are also dealing with  women having to expose their own sexual immorality to the general public.  They are dealing with their own issues of "how could I have allowed this to happen?"  Along with issues of personal guilt and responsibility.  Does the general public embrace them and comfort them?  No they shun them out of embarassment and shame.  So who cares about the general public.  Right?  Well, hat about their families and friends and neighbors?  Most women who have gone to battle over this issue have had to move to new localities and start their lives over because of the social stigma placed on them.  How many friends can sympathize with these issues?  How can they even face their friends and associates after revealing these things?  Even pastors in new churches are afraid of them!  Do they want their families to know?  

Now on top of this, of course, our society is still extremely chauvanistic and we give much more weight to the testimony of someone who is an authority.  So we cannot assume the women will be believed.  Especially against someone who has been a pathological liar for decades.  If you read these sites you will hear countless stories of women who went up against preachers of every denomination and lost everything.  Funny how every other similar profession has laws about sexual impropriety (counsellors, doctors, teachers).  Actually a few states have laws on the books regarding pastors too.  California is not one of them.

So are their hands tied?  Should they do something?  It is a very sad day when victimized women have to speak for themselves.  The question is.  Where are the men who are angry because women could be abused like this?  Where are the men who could do something that would make a difference?  So few were outraged.  Unfortunately most have become just what George made them to be: passive and unable to act like a man would.  Men like Mark Miller, Rod Zach, Roger Grant who know the details could have fought for these women.  They could have personally warned every individual in every assembly where George is still welcome.  Have they warned Janine Almanzor, Agnes McAllister, all the women in San Francisco who are at risk of being similarly abused?  No they have put their heads in the sand and gone on protecting their own narrow lives.  Have they even encouraged counselling or help for these women?  Have they even entered into dialogue with them?  It is a very familiar story from Southern Baptists to the Catholic church.

Don't blame George's victims for not doing more.  They did not keep silent.  They did what they could in less public ways.  Writing on a website would not be healing to them.  There are enough people who know the story.  Let them rebuild their lives in peace.   Pray to God that they will heal as they seek to go on with their lives