Scott McCumber
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« Reply #75 on: January 08, 2004, 01:36:49 am » |
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I'm with Uh Oh. Can't tell if you're being serious, but I always thought he was a phony, bombastic, overblown a-hole. I spent a lot of time with George (not always alone, but sometimes) and there were times when I felt like he respected the fact that I wasn't impressed by him and other times when I could feel him smoldering because I didn't buy into his crap. Either way, I knew I had adopted the right attitude with him. He might have brought me into the fold when I was about 15 but he made a serious tactical blunder by trying to drive a wedge between me and my dad. Game over, Georgie! The Giant Hand turned into the Giant Finger!  Scott |
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Recovering Saint
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« Reply #76 on: January 08, 2004, 02:23:04 am » |
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George was our guru. Chant the Mantra
And the lively saints said Praise the Lord
The others had fallen asleep.
He is so spiritual. I counted on average he had over 150 quotes not verses but quotes in his messages. BS baffles brains. Spout enough verses and you confuse your audience. You have said nothing and people don't want to admit that they are not getting it. This would prove that they were not as spiritual as George.
I tried to do it in ministry and the LB exhorted me on my ministry saying you had so many verses what was your point. I bet he never said that to George though.
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editor
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« Reply #77 on: January 08, 2004, 03:12:31 am » |
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George was our guru. Chant the Mantra
And the lively saints said Praise the Lord
The others had fallen asleep.
He is so spiritual. I counted on average he had over 150 quotes not verses but quotes in his messages. BS baffles brains. Spout enough verses and you confuse your audience. You have said nothing and people don't want to admit that they are not getting it. This would prove that they were not as spiritual as George.
I tried to do it in ministry and the LB exhorted me on my ministry saying you had so many verses what was your point. I bet he never said that to George though.
Quote from David Geftakys, who was perhaps the only person who could preach worse than George: "My Dad taught me, 'great preachers break all the rules, but you aren't, so don't!'" David and George could break the rules of clear communication because they were so gifted. The rest of us had to struggle to be as clear as possible. Some of you are probably going to groan when I say this, but Timothy Geftakys is a really good speaker. Jim Hayman is good to the point of being gifted. I honestly believe that Jim has the potential to have a powerful ministry. The sooner he gets all this sorted out, and starts, the better. Brent |
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #78 on: January 08, 2004, 04:11:58 am » |
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He might have brought me into the fold when I was about 15 but he made a serious tactical blunder by trying to drive a wedge between me and my dad.
Scott
The failure of this commonly employed tactic of George Geftakys and his proteges was in your case the exception Scott. It is truly remarkable how many grown and supposedly spiritual men allowed this cretin to destroy their family relationships. Good for you...of course your Dad was also nobody's fool... Verne Actually, Verne, there were a lot of exceptions, but no one recognizes them because they all left fellowship when they realized what was going on! I was just stuck there (at least until September 1985). Maybe later I'll tell the story of Georgie's clumsy attempt to influence me.  Now I have to go coach my son's basketball team - something my dad never gave himself the chance to do under GG's rule. By the way, 20-4 record over the last two and a quarter seasons, shooting for our third straight league championship! Woo hoo!  Scott |
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jackhutchinson
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« Reply #79 on: January 08, 2004, 05:05:20 am » |
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Jim Hayman is good to the point of being gifted. I honestly believe that Jim has the potential to have a powerful ministry. The sooner he gets all this sorted out, and starts, the better.
Brent
I agree, Brent. I still have the tapes from Jim's Y2K lectures. While some in GG's assemblies went overboard with that topic in 1999, Jim was evenhanded. I distinctly remember Jim saying that some of his contacts in the computer industry had already made plans to 'head for the hills', and that others thought it would just be a little 'speed bump'. Whenever Jim spoke, I listened. Jack |
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summer007
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« Reply #80 on: January 08, 2004, 05:45:09 am » |
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Seriously....Read (as I'm sure most of you have) about the other cult tactics on rick ross...Not much difference in M.O. If no one in GG assm stood -up when GG hereticaaly preached 7th day...It was only a matter of time before the Kool-Aid was passed out to people GG would of only needed a few scriptures to back him up (oh and an all around bro meet to convince the Weak).....
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editor
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« Reply #81 on: January 08, 2004, 09:28:04 am » |
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Jim Hayman is good to the point of being gifted. I honestly believe that Jim has the potential to have a powerful ministry. The sooner he gets all this sorted out, and starts, the better.
Brent
I don't often disagree with Brent, but the above astonishes me. It has absolutely nothing to do with gift...stewards must be faithful...Verne Verne, I didn't say he HAS a powerful ministry, I said he has the potential. Our God is a God of redemption. Even a guy who has been steeped in Geftakysism has the possibility of redemption. Think of the Apostle Paul. Does this mean it will happen? No. Is it likely? Not hardly. However, it is possible, and I view the situation as a terrible waste of God given talent and gift. Brent |
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Nancy Newswander
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« Reply #82 on: January 08, 2004, 09:30:10 am » |
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Isn't Jim out now? He's not involved with the assembly in Fullerton any longer, right?
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summer007
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« Reply #83 on: January 08, 2004, 09:32:59 am » |
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Faithful, Trustworthy, Above Reproach....hum...Verne Very crucial.....I always thought Tom Maddux and Dave Sable gave excellant mesages...I remember thinking to myself oh,good whenever they got up to Speak...
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M2
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« Reply #84 on: January 08, 2004, 09:47:34 am » |
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Isn't Jim out now? He's not involved with the assembly in Fullerton any longer, right?
Yes. Jim is "out" now and not involved with the Fullerton assembly. He definitely is a gifted preacher and has potential. He was the most 'pentecostal' in our midst. Tim G is a good speaker, but I always felt like he was 'mocking' us when he joked about the saints. Dan Notti was quite a good preacher too. By default, all LBs were gifted the moment they became a LB. Eh? and not gifted when they were to be dropped as a LB as in Mark C's case. Marcia |
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« Last Edit: January 08, 2004, 10:02:46 am by Marcia »
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editor
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« Reply #85 on: January 08, 2004, 08:39:46 pm » |
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Jim Hayman is good to the point of being gifted. I honestly believe that Jim has the potential to have a powerful ministry. The sooner he gets all this sorted out, and starts, the better.
Brent
I don't often disagree with Brent, but the above astonishes me. It has absolutely nothing to do with gift...stewards must be faithful...Verne Verne, I didn't say he HAS a powerful ministry, I said he has the potential. Our God is a God of redemption. Even a guy who has been steeped in Geftakysism has the possibility of redemption. Think of the Apostle Paul. Does this mean it will happen? No. Is it likely? Not hardly. However, it is possible, and I view the situation as a terrible waste of God given talent and gift. Brent Of all the men around George Geftakys, I was most disappointed in Jim Hayman exactly because I thought he was one of the most wonderfully endowed. Jim Hayman had the gifts, the stature and the knowledge to easily withstand a man like George Geftakys and I would argue that this is the reason God placed a man with his talent in that situation. He failed to fulfill this destiny and be the sharp, threshing instrument God intended not because of the environment, but because of his personal choices. There is much more I could say about this but I will say only this much: your comment about a terrible waste of God-given talent and gift is truer than you know. Dont get me wrong folks; my heart is breaking and I have cried like a sissy about this...I loved that man...  Verne There is still hope for him Verne. The kind of hope that God specializes in. Brent |
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Kimberley Tobin
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« Reply #86 on: January 08, 2004, 08:43:27 pm » |
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Of all the men around George Geftakys, I was most disappointed in Jim Hayman exactly because I thought he was one of the most wonderfully endowed. Jim Hayman had the gifts, the stature and the knowledge to easily withstand a man like George Geftakys and I would argue that this is the reason God placed a man with his talent in that situation. He failed to fulfill this destiny and be the sharp, threshing instrument God intended not because of the environment, but because of his personal choices. There is much more I could say about this but I will say only this much: your comment about a terrible waste of God-given talent and gift is truer than you know. Dont get me wrong folks; my heart is breaking and I have cried like a sissy about this...I loved that man... Verne The last year (or perhaps even more) Jim Hayman appeared to be a broken man (please note I say "appeared". Only Jim can attest to his actual state.) Jim actually had broken away for a season and left to go out on his own (with his family) to, I believe, begin ministering apart from the assembly system. Only Jim (or anyone Jim confided the truth in) actually knows why it was he returned. When I saw him after he returned, I was devastated! I've never seen a man age so quickly in such a brief period of time. I was actually happy for him when he had left (my feeling was, "Yeah, they escaped!") I always liked Jim. I know it was a difficult thing to go through with his older son Isaac rebelling. I would enjoy hearing from Jim here on the BB to find out how he and his family are faring. Jim?  |
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outdeep
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« Reply #87 on: January 08, 2004, 08:48:05 pm » |
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I know I am going to get clobbered on this one, but I can say without sarcasm that there are times I enjoyed George's messages. When I go through 1 Samuel, I still think back to some things he said in the first seminar I attended in Fall, 1978 - The Wars of David. In Spring, 1978, he did a seminar on Ephesians called "In the Heavenlies" which touched upon things that most Bible teachers teach on (H.A. Ironside also called his commentary on Ephesians, "In The Heavenlies"). And, yes, I remember perking up to a story and laughing at the punch line. Even the Open Brethren recognized that, though he was too controlling for leadership, he was a gifted teacher in their circles.
As Tom Maddux said on this board once before, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
What I think George's problem was that (using his terms) he didn't have the "capacity" to preach and teach to the extent that he thought he did. Some seminar lectures, I followed pretty well. Many others, I was lost right out of the starting gate. Further, his move away from accountibility and the subculture that demanded that he was beyond criticism (yes and his enormous ego needs tied to his mystical approach that caused him to believe that God spoke right to him) greatly corrupted what could have been a half-decent ministry.
I agree - I always loved Jim Hayman's messages and always wondered where he could have been if he was given some freedom. Tim could have been just as effective as Greg Laurie. Dan Notti could have written some thoughtful Christian books.
There was a particular brother, who I won't name, who was extremely faithful (meaning he popped up at every opportunity), but a notorously poor preacher. Several times I considered tieing his shoelaces to the metal chair to leave room for someone else.
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Uh Oh
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« Reply #88 on: January 08, 2004, 08:58:21 pm » |
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He might have brought me into the fold when I was about 15 but he made a serious tactical blunder by trying to drive a wedge between me and my dad. Scott This seemed to be a common trend and way of doing things in the Geftakys family. |
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #89 on: January 08, 2004, 09:06:33 pm » |
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I sat through a summer school with George where the text was Chronicles, Kings, Samuel, etc. When George taught it as history it was fairly interesting and he did a decent job of untangling all the different names, bloodlines, etc. It was pretty clear. When he started trying to interpret scripturally, though . . . whew! What a mess. Plus I didn't trust anything he said. At that point I usually got into trouble and he made me come down and sit in the front row!  Ahh, good times. Good times. *snort* Scott |
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