Question for the Christian Community

[retread]

I will try not to reply to things posted on the SWTE website, but I had to reply to one more thing.
...

I agree, it is tough trying not to respond to some of the stuff over at the eagles, but responding only seems to make matters worse.  Yet, I also end up in the same situation as you and also end up responding.  I am not sure why I even read any of the stuff over there, yet I do.

...
I am amazed that after my post and the replies to it that the administrator over there seemed to miss the whole point.
...

Don't worry about that.  You were very clear, and I think most of us even after reading the eagles site do still get your point.

[BeckyW]

Joe-
We were certainly taught to be shepherds while in the assembly.  Remember all the "spiritual care" workshops, and the "competant to counsel" ministry from Romans 15?
True shepherds do tend to be revealed in times of trouble.  There are  a number of them on this board.  I'm grateful for them.
Speaking about the assemblies, the problems and the damage they caused, or are still causing, is not speaking evil. It's speaking out.  
Becky

[vernecarty]

I will try not to reply to things posted on the SWTE website, but I had to reply to one more thing. I am amazed that after my post and the replies to it that the administrator over there seemed to miss the whole point. She has centered on one thing alone: the word shepherd. She states that because the word shepherd is never used to describe a believer, then the Lord has not made us shepherds!!

Yet the Bible does call Christians "fathers"(see 1 John)
which is a far more endearing term than Shepherd. If one is to be as a father to other christians, this is a term that implies even more watchfulness than a shepherd possesses.  But I don't really want to argue over words. The Bible clearly implies that we are to watch over one another, guard one another and protect one another AS a shephed would do. When Jesus says "feed my sheep" he is saying to follow his example and be as a shepherd is. If one wants to disregard the whole message of the post because you can't find a christian referred to as a shepherd, then fine. But if one wants to you can simply go to any thesaurus on line and look up the word "pastor"---a direct synonym is "shepherd"--a pastor is a minister. Jesus says that "he that will be chief among you let him be your minister."  1Pet. 5:4 says "And when the CHIEF shepherd appears ye shall receive a crown of life... "  being "chief" implies other shepherds under him.

I am going to make the utmost attempt not to visit the other BB again and to refrain from further replies.
Being human, I have this awful weakness called "curiosity" which leads me back to read what they have to say , but I find that often after visiting I feel sad and discouraged at the lack of real openess there.

take care everyone   --Joe

You are quite right of course Joe.
Greek for shepherd is poimeen

The imperative cognate poimaino commonly translated feed, (tend ASV, RSV; shepherd NKJV) is what Jesus instructed Peter to do in John 21:16, and what Peter committed to other elders in 1 Peter 5:2

Leave her alone...
Verne

[Oscar]

Hi all,

On my journey in July and August, I met one of the young men who was involved in the attempt to sow dissention on this BB around that time.

I did not immediately connect the person I met with the name on the BB.  It was only later that I realized who he was.  But my brief meeting with him gave me some perspective on just who we were dealing with.

What happened was that several "assembly kids" showed up at a home where I was visiting to collect one of the young people there for an outing.  This individual was with them.  

I observed some behaviors, (not evil behaviors), which demonstrated these young people's level of maturity.

What I saw was young man, just entering adulthood.  Having been in that state, and having raised four kids through that state, I have at least some insight as to what folks in that stage of life are like:

1. They have had some experience of adult freedom, but little of adult responsibility.

2. They see issues in a very black/white way.  Because of a lack of life experience, there is little understanding of "shades of grey", and little understanding of people.

3. They believe that they know and understand far more than they really do.

4. They tend to be unentreatable.  After all, If you know more than most other folks, especially your parents, why should you listen to others?

5. They are full of opinions about just about everything.  Most of these opinions are based on information from others their own age.

6. They are very future oriented, full of dreams and plans about what they are going to do....because to date they haven't done very much.

7. If you meet them in 10-20 years after life has kicked them around a bit...they will be much more knowledgeable and wise....and a lot nicer as well.

Now, here is what I suspect.

I suspect that the "Soaring" website is mainly a bunch of people like this.   It is quite easy to get to another computer besides the one at home and log in as "Joe Blow" or "Brassy" or R2D2 or whatever.

My suggestion is that trying to convince them of anything just feeds their need to prove themselves to themselves and each other. The most likely result will be more and more replies in the same vein.  They will just become more and more stubborn in their determination to "win" and to "strut their stuff".

I suspect that they have very little understanding of the deep suffering so many adult members of the Geftakys assemblies have experienced.  This is a game for them.  

But not for us.

I think that simply refusing to read or reply to their absurdities would be the wise, (for us) and merciful (for them) thing to do.

That is my .02.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

[vernecarty]

I think that simply refusing to read or reply to their absurdities would be the wise, (for us) and merciful (for them) thing to do.

That is my .02.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

I agree with Tom. I no longer go there.
Verne

[vernecarty]

. That was a puzzle to me but I can now see what they meant. There does not seem to be any respect for someone’s privacy. I have no intention of giving you my address and phone number so you can post it on the internet. If you wish to post yours that is fine. You should also respect others for not doing so; after all you were the poster on Rick Ross that was an “Assembly member for 17 years.” I am sure you had valid reasons for posting anonymously and I am sure everyone would have agreed with those reasons. Who I am and where I am from is immaterial. You wouldn’t know me anyway. In fact of all the posters on your bb I have met 2 over the years and would not recognize them if I saw them nor they me. So that is a non-issue. The very fact that you are attempting to publicly compromise my privacy authenticates the mistrust those who contacted me have.

You are obvioulsy a thoughtful individual so let me sugget this. People coming to a forum like this should clearly understand the context in which it evolved. The BB's very existence was a counter-stroke to a system that thrived on secrecy, subterfuge, and sinsiter shadowy silence in matters that should have been shouted from the roof-tops. It completely escapes me, knowing why we are all here, that someone as intelligent as you would try to make such a specious argument about "privacy" on a forum with the clearly stated goal of exposing that whcih some would like to keep hidden. All things clandestine are incompatible with this environment and you of all people should extend those of us who move here a modicum of respect. You had the option to continue "lurking" did you not?  
Verne
p.s I do agree with your exhortation of the need to encourage others  look to the King. Some of us have been doing that on the other site to the best of our ability Bob. This site is the "venting" side if that is O.K. with you  
I will pray for you. I think you are an O.K. guy...don't agree with everything but I think you are O.K.

[Scott McCumber]

I think that simply refusing to read or reply to their absurdities would be the wise, (for us) and merciful (for them) thing to do.

That is my .02.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

When I was a kid we played "The Quiet Game" when we traveled. The first person to make a noise got thumped.

I vote we play The Quiet Game with regards to the other site. Let's see how long we can go without someone bringing it up.

First loser gets a noogie!

Scott

*sigh* Obligatory note to lurkers: This is humor. Anyone is free to discuss whatever they want without fear of noogies.

[Mark Kisla]

I think that simply refusing to read or reply to their absurdities would be the wise, (for us) and merciful (for them) thing to do.

That is my .02.

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

I agree with Tom. I no longer go there.
Verne

I agree with both of you.  They are free to express their opinion and I'm free to choose not to have any part of their theology

[Joe Sperling]

Preparing for noogie.    

--joe

[Uh Oh]

What is the soaring website?  Has the current leadership of the assembly's countered with their own website. I'd love a good laugh.

[Joe Sperling]

Tom---

Thanks for your post. As is almost( ) always the
case you are right on the money. Thanks for your level-headed thoughts. You and Scott and several
others are very correct(and I wish I could get it through my thick skull) that silence would be the
best medicine.

God bless,  Joe

[M2]

Hello “brent”

You all remember “brent” don’t you? He was the medium build, brown eyed, brown haired, guy that carried his bible and went on outreach. A dear brother.

I have received a number of messages through the bb since I began posting a few weeks ago. These are the silent ones that are not in agreement with your methods. Some of them wanted me to contact them via email and not through the bb message. They said they did not trust the bb. That was a puzzle to me but I can now see what they meant. There does not seem to be any respect for someone’s privacy. I have no intention of giving you my address and phone number so you can post it on the internet. If you wish to post yours that is fine. You should also respect others for not doing so; after all you were the poster on Rick Ross that was an “Assembly member for 17 years.” I am sure you had valid reasons for posting anonymously and I am sure everyone would have agreed with those reasons. Who I am and where I am from is immaterial. You wouldn’t know me anyway. In fact of all the posters on your bb I have met 2 over the years and would not recognize them if I saw them nor they me. So that is a non-issue. The very fact that you are attempting to publicly compromise my privacy authenticates the mistrust those who contacted me have.

This is a public forum through the internet. This isn’t a local church gathering. If I had the opportunity I would meet with you face to face. That is not possible so we meet in cyber space. If this bb is only for those who agree with you then state that. Make that clear in the registration agreement. I will respect that. If you want to entertain dialogue that may have a different opinion then support that. All the posts I have made simply are my perspectives. Someone may read them and think that was something they had not considered. I don’t have an agenda.  I just don’t agree with your methods. Nothing personal in it.

This is my perspective of this bb. It reminds me of Wyatt Earp and the many movies made about him. He stood up to the bad guys when no one else would. (I commend you for that Brent) After doing that he had a goal and that was to kill every one of the bad guys. Even after their gang disbanded and many went on with their new life he pursued them until he killed them all. Now that is just a movie. Probably little fact in it. The point is, George is finished. The assemblies as once were known are no more. He hasn’t repented and maybe some of his close associates haven’t either. So what? They are finished. Are you gong to pursue them till they are all dead? (figuratively speaking) Do you think this bb is going to make them repent? Don’t hold your breath on that one. Do you think the sarcastic and belittling posts and the intimidating methods used by you and your associates is going help heal others? As you know, leaders are accountable. Who are leaders? Those with followers. You have some Brent. Where are you going to lead them? Why don’t you encourage them in the scriptures? Give real healing counsel. You may say part of healing is the venting of anger. This has been going on for almost a year now. You as leader should help turn that anger into a renewed hope and confidence in Jesus Christ. Heb 12:15 “Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you and thereby many be defiled.” Let’s not fail of the grace of God. It is abundant.

My intent is not malicious. I would just like some evidence that people are going on with the Lord. Some dialogue that indicates, “this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before.” Those who used to post such seem to be gone (Chuck Vanesse, Al Hartman).  Maybe I am dreamer.

So long guys. If you find the time, pray for me. God knows who I am.

“bob”

Bob,

Now that it's all out in the open, I still do not know who you are. You've heard the saying 'curiosity killed the cat', well I'm dying to know.

Anyway, I find it veerrry interesting that you were willing to tolerate exposure from assembly leaders these many years past, and you cannot take a little heat on the BB. Scott-or-?? recently posted of an event when he told TimG something in confidence and all of a sudden Scott-or-?? was surrounded by THE GANG.

What was your reason for remaining annonymous? I am just curious and am not trying to be malicious.

I can assure you that I am going on with the Lord. I do not know why you would think otherwise.

I have more to say but I will conclude here for now.
Lord bless,
Marcia
PS send me an email if you wish.

[Scott McCumber]

Hi, Marcia,

It was Kevin Welsh who told the Tim G story. If you have not read Kevin's testimony on the GA website you should.

Scott

PS - I don't belive Bob should have to reveal his location or Assembly affiliation (though it would lend excellent context to his opinions), however I can't give much credence to someone who cannot take credit for his own opinions. He needs to give his name.

When I was in the newspaper business we would not print any letters to the editor that were not signed for similar reasons.

My Two Cents - the name of my weekly editorial column back in the day (clever, huh?  )

[kwelsh]

.

This is a public forum through the internet. This isn’t a local church gathering....That is not possible so we meet in cyber space. If this bb is only for those who agree with you then state that. Make that clear in the registration agreement. I will respect that. If you want to entertain dialogue that may have a different opinion then support that. All the posts I have made simply are my perspectives. Someone may read them and think that was something they had not considered. I don’t have an agenda.  I just don’t agree with your methods. Nothing personal in it.

This is my perspective of this bb. It reminds me of Wyatt Earp and the many movies made about him. He stood up to the bad guys when no one else would. (I commend you for that Brent) After doing that he had a goal and that was to kill every one of the bad guys. Even after their gang disbanded and many went on with their new life he pursued them until he killed them all. Now that is just a movie. Probably little fact in it. The point is, George is finished. The assemblies as once were known are no more. He hasn’t repented and maybe some of his close associates haven’t either. So what? They are finished. Are you gong to pursue them till they are all dead? (figuratively speaking) Do you think this bb is going to make them repent? Don’t hold your breath on that one. Do you think the sarcastic and belittling posts and the intimidating methods used by you and your associates is going help heal others? As you know, leaders are accountable. Who are leaders? Those with followers. You have some Brent. Where are you going to lead them? Why don’t you encourage them in the scriptures? Give real healing counsel. You may say part of healing is the venting of anger. This has been going on for almost a year now. You as leader should help turn that anger into a renewed hope and confidence in Jesus Christ. Heb 12:15 “Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you and thereby many be defiled.” Let’s not fail of the grace of God. It is abundant.

My intent is not malicious. I would just like some evidence that people are going on with the Lord. Some dialogue that indicates, “this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before.” Those who used to post such seem to be gone (Chuck Vanesse, Al Hartman).  Maybe I am dreamer.

So long guys. If you find the time, pray for me. God knows who I am.

“bob”
Bob I appreciate your comments, and have known what it feels like to go against the grain here on the bb; it can be a tough forum.I would like to ask you to reconsider leaving however because I think honest opinons and inquiry is fundamental to true healing.(see Ps.51)And you seem to be sincere and honest in your posts.
I have tried to stand against the stain of bitterness when it appears but if you understand what so many of us have experienced it is quite understandable. And just telling people that they shouldn't be bitter simply doesn't work.I seem to be learning that understanding others REASONS for their bitterness and loving them is the place to start.I have to emphasize LEARNING because I tend to react to my Assembly expeience a little different so it takes time to understand other people.
Kevin.
 

[Mark C.]

Hi Bob and Others,

  I am hesitant to add any thoughts here as we've been down this road before, and as Brian stated it leads to a lot of shadow boxing.  
 But I just can't help mentioning something that I noticed about "Bob's" concerns in his recent posts re. this BB.
   The first thing is the use of the word "everyone" (with the exception of a couple of posters) "who always express bitter attitudes against GG and the Assembly."  This is a strawman argument because it obviously is not true.  I am always suspect when there are those who come here and instead of specifically debating a topic attempt to assainate the character of the BB with sweeping denounciations.    Also, the use of loaded language like, "kill", as if the BB is inhabited with rabbid vengeful individuals, is likewise an attempt to mis-characterize the BB.  We often discuss learning to live by grace and healing from our past experiences here.  Please check the "Wounded Pilgrims" thread and see that there is much that is positive posted there.
   The 2nd item is making the focus the reactions of those who have left the evil in the Assembly vs. the evil in the Assembly itself.  Again, as Brian so well said, a truly compassionate person is not passsive in the presence of that which can damage God's people.  While learning to forgive those who do us wrong is clearly a Biblical teaching it is also equally true that there must be a passionate defense of the truth of God.  The concept that Jesus was unaffected and ignored the actions of evil against Him is also not true as He warned of the dire consequences of those who mistreated His little ones.  We can understand what God means by forgiveness through studying how Jesus, Paul, Peter, etc. behaved themselves in certain situations.  I would encourage you to make that study as it might change your thinking as to how we should behave ourselves on this BB.  
   Third:  The notion that GG and the Assemblies are gone and are now dead is clearly not true.  There are presently active groups that fully support GG and those inside are in a very dark and dangerous place.  There also is the idea still held by some that GG failed, but his teachings and practices were exactly what God wants!  These groups continue because the leaders do not want to lose their positions of power in these groups.  To give up on warning God's people is exactly what the master of evil religious systems would advise and open God's people to further rending.
   "Bob", I do indeed pray that God will help you to consider that you might be assisting the wolves more than the Shepherd as you strive to serve The Lord.  Many have tried to reason with you on this thread and I don't detect a willingness on your part to consider their entreaties.  Pardon me if I seem a bit suspicious, but there were a couple of young men, a while back, who tried to play us for fools on this BB.  Many tried to be very tolerant of their position (myself included) until it was clear that these were not interested in honest conversation at all.  When they were discovered they sent very malacious and hateful e-mail messages to me, and others here, laughing about what fools we were for thinking that they were sincere in their involvement.  Their one desire was the destruction of the BB, not builidng up others in Christ.
                                           God Bless,  Mark C.