Question for the Christian Community

[editor]

Dear "bob,"

You wrote this:

Those with followers. You have some Brent. Where are you going to lead them? Why don’t you encourage them in the scriptures? Give real healing counsel. You may say part of healing is the venting of anger. This has been going on for almost a year now. You as leader should help turn that anger into a renewed hope and confidence in Jesus Christ. Heb 12:15 “Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you and thereby many be defiled.” Let’s not fail of the grace of God. It is abundant.

My intent is not malicious. I would just like some evidence that people are going on with the Lord. Some dialogue that indicates, “this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before.” Those who used to post such seem to be gone (Chuck Vanesse, Al Hartman).  Maybe I am dreamer.

So long guys. If you find the time, pray for me. God knows who I am.

“bob”

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  If you want to see some of this encouraging talk, go on http://www.restfortheweary.us/bb/index.php.  On that website, I am much more in the "encouraging" mode.  Like someone else said, this BB is for venting, or at least that is it's current function.  Every now and then we stray into a really encouraging topic for a while, but 17-20 years of the Code of Silence needs a couple years of venting to balance out----for non-overcomers.   Overcomers, or course, don't need to vent.

Regarding the RickRoss articles, Rick didn't want to put my name on them.  I put my name and phone on the Macgregorministries articles.  
I don't recommend anyone else to put their phone number, etc.  I don't even have a problem with anonymity.

However, it is Biblical that we have a right to face our accusers.  I didn't like the fact that I couldn't get my name on the Ross articles, so eventually I had to start my own site, and take responsibility for my words and actions.  Thanks for the Wyatt Earp comparison,  BTW.

When you posted snipets of my writings and then said,  "I am questioning your credibility Brent,"  you at least owe me to tell me who you are.  If you only want to comment on the public domain that's fine, in light of anonymity.  However, if you get personal (which is fine) you should be a person.  Nevertheless, you may post anonymously if you wish.

As far as people silently being against the BB,  there may be a dozen, perhaps more.  However, I have hundreds of letters that say just the opposite.  

Chuck Vanasse will be back, and I'm sure Al will stop by from time to time.  Do you really want everyone to be doing this?  Isn't it "healthy" that so many have "moved on?"  I think so.

The overwhelming testimony I have received has been that people are happy to have been delivered and gotten into healthy churches.  Chuck Vanasse himself put together a book for me that contained testimonies of people who had been blessed by the website and BB.   The vast majority of people who registered here over the last year have found green pasture and fresh water and are "getting on" with The Lord.  

I guess the real question is,  Why are we still here?  

For me, it's not because I am bitter.  Mostly I laugh my head off when telling "Assembly" stories.  I'm here, at least for now, because I presume to be a help to others.  Perhaps I am mistaken in this,  but I base this on the mail and phone calls I get.

I do have a few critics,  but as far as I know, I have no followers.  No one has given me a dime in all of this, except that Steve sent me a check for the balance of time on the web-hosting service.  If I have inspired people, then I am happy.  If I have stirred them up to throw off the yoke of bondage, praise God!

I know I have angered some, but as I posted somewhere else, this endeavor has been a hundredfold harvest for Suzie and I.

Before the website we were excommunicated, no inheritance, no Assembly friends except our fellow outcasts.

after the website,  we have 80% of our Assembly friends back.  We went from about 4 Assembly friends to about 40, in the space of 3 months.  That's pretty good if you ask me.  You can't make that many friends with a Dale Carnegie course, now can you?  

Brent

[vernecarty]

Dear "bob,"


I guess the real question is,  Why are we still here?  

Brent

BECAUSE IT'S FUN!!!   OF COURSE!!        

But seriously folk,  I do get a little weary with the pontificating of some of the Pharisees that so carelessly impugn the integrity of the BB posters. This is a group of some of the spiritually healthiest, most well-adjusted folk you could meet anywhere. The ones that come in here whining about all the "hate" and "bitterness" give the impression that everything that is occurring here is doing so in some kind of contextual vacuum. The accusations are for the most part not those of thoughtful and intlligent people, lets face it.
It is difficult for me to understand how anyone familiar with all the evil that transpired in the assemblies, and the terrible wrong-doing perpetrated by those in places of responsibility, could possibly fail to feel a sense of outrage and to speak out accordingly. I have had very little patience with people who come here trying to add insult to injury, and somehow implying the righteous indignation expressed is somehow cause for condemnation. I would like to ask all you assembly sympathisers this question:
Why did you, with your supposed superior theolgical paradigm fail to function as either light or salt, and illuminate the darkness, or stem the awful spiritual rot that spead throughout that system? Critisise others after you have satisfactorily answered that question!
 With very few exceptions my response to those people has been withering contempt because that is exactly what is appropriate. These people are not credible. These are the kinds of people that made the assemblies what they were and they should be given absolutely no quarter.
Have you noticed how the very harshest new testament language is reserved for those who by virtue of their positions of influence or authority, engage in the promulgation of doctrine or conduct inimical to the spiritual well-being of others? Whether it be the hypocritical Scribes and Pharisees, the mutilating Judaizers, or simply the careless individual responsible for giving offence to one of God's little ones? Go back and read Paul's remarkable rebuke of the Galatian church. He actually called them foolish! Tut! Tut! Paul...such temper! Why did he do this?

Because so much was at stake!

Some of these folk engaging in thoughtless criticism really ought to go back and read their Bibles more carefully.   'Nufff said!  
Verne

p.s. ....and another thing...this website has some of the funniest people in the universe posting here so just lighten up a bit and  have a laugh or two will ya? Leave the heavy lifting to the pros! (like Steve Fortescue...man have you seen some of the equations that guy posts?...makes my head spin!)
Bottom line is we love the Lord Jesus!! He is the Blessed and Only Potentate...to Him be all the glory!

[vernecarty]

When I was a kid we played "The Quiet Game" when we traveled. The first person to make a noise got thumped.

I vote we play The Quiet Game with regards to the other site. Let's see how long we can go without someone bringing it up.

First loser gets a noogie!

Scott

*sigh* Obligatory note to lurkers: This is humor. Anyone is free to discuss whatever they want without fear of noogies.

Preparing for noogie.    

--joe

Hey Scotty...one to noogie-fy!  
Verne

[Mark Kisla]

No Noogies here.
Have a great day and weekend everyone.I'm stuck here in Chicago
Friday with the family in Chicago means one thing....PIZZA NIGHT !.....Followed by a stop at the Italion Ice stand on Tayler Street

[M2]

Joe,

Personally I am glad that you chose to comment on that particluar post from SWTE. The discussion process helps me (and possibly others) to be clear in our own minds about a post that that could condemn where condemnation was not in order, and encourage "silence" where "speaking out" is what is needed. After all some of us do peek at SWTE from time to time. It has taken a ton of self control and resistance on my part to not comment on some of the other stuff that is posted there. Having debated with teens has help me tremendously, but I still have much more to learn. BTW my teens are great kids, so this is not a criticism about them.

I did not see any problem with your usage of the shepherding concept. The Lord does speak of Himself as the good Shepherd. I must confess that sometimes I only skim some of those posts and miss a lot of what is being communicated there. Opposition is good to a certain degree, as it helps us to search and know the Scriptures, and then to stand strong therein. Those who are afraid to read the website and BBs are not really mature in their beliefs and feel they may be swayed by the "lie" (NOT) that is being promoted.

That's all for now,
Marcia

[vernecarty]

Those who are afraid to read the website and BBs are not really mature in their beliefs and feel they may be swayed by the "lie" (NOT) that is being promoted.

That's all for now,
Marcia

Away! Away! Thou foul forum of error
Lest my mind be ensnared, and my conscience - by terror
Lest my poor heart and will, with outrage be inflamed
And so I should conclude, that George was to be blamed!  
Verne


Thank yewwww!....Thank yewwww ferry mush....
   

[vernecarty]

Lest I laugh at the hilarious jokes of Joe Sperling
Or get crushed by the size of those words Verne keeps hurling
Or the stately calm reasoning of Brian and Brent
Or the cool of Tom Maddux would convince me to vent!  
Verne

[vernecarty]

And Marcia from Ottawa
She's really cool too...
Though at first was unsure, about our point of view
And our good friend Mark C.
Who's a statesman at heart
And for quite a long time, has been doing his part

So be nice when you come here
We'll be nice to you too
And despite claims by others
This BB's just not through!  
Verne

[Oscar]

Say folks,

If GG was a "grievous wolf", and his enforcers qualify as wolves as well...

Shouldn't the "assemblies" that are still meeting, and are propagating GG's teachings and practices be called "wolf packs"?  

Thomas Maddux

[Scott McCumber]

Say folks,

If GG was a "grievous wolf", and his enforcers qualify as wolves as well...

Shouldn't the "assemblies" that are still meeting, and are propagating GG's teachings and practices be called "wolf packs"?  

Thomas Maddux

Tom,

More like a huddled mass of sheep. I think the average person still involved is probably weak and deceived on many levels.

If they are not, then they are wolves in sheeps' clothing (to continue the analogy!)


Scott

[Joe Sperling]

Verne----

Your poetry caused a stirring inside me--it started out small but soon grew into a dynamic yearning for something--I couldn't put my finger on it at first, but as I read further, the need got greater. Thank God I had just been to the store yesterday and had a fresh supply of Pepto-Bismol.

--Joe

[vernecarty]

Verne----

Your poetry caused a stirring inside me--it started out small but soon grew into a dynamic yearning for something--I couldn't put my finger on it at first, but as I read further, the need got greater. Thank God I had just been to the store yesterday and had a fresh supply of Pepto-Bismol.

--Joe

What's my chances of getting published? Maybe George could help me out on that score...
Verne

[vernecarty]

Say folks,

If GG was a "grievous wolf", and his enforcers qualify as wolves as well...

Shouldn't the "assemblies" that are still meeting, and are propagating GG's teachings and practices be called "wolf packs"?  

Thomas Maddux

I heard a message on the radio today from Irwin Lutzer (sp?) about what he called "one-way-forgiveness" that reminded me of the lively debate we had on the forum not too long ago. Lutzer pretty much agreed with the position that Chuck Vanasse took and I must say a few things he said caused me to re-think my position. Particularly when he presented the idea that a lack of forgivness has the potential to hold one in a prison whose key is held by the offender. In other words, one must be able to unconditionally forgive, even in the absence of any indications of repentance or a specific request for forgivness. I am still of two minds about this. I have one interesting question if any one wants to tackle it.
After you grant uncondtional forgivness, is it stll O.K. to pray for fire and brimstone to fall if they don't repent? ( you know the age-old question of the mercy/justice balance) What about those you consider to be wolves, do you take em out after you forgive 'em or before? This is all very confusing is it not?
What do you guys think?
Verme

[Joe Sperling]

Verne---

I would say that it is never right to pray for fire and brimstone to fall on anyone. In the Old Testament David and others prayed for judgment upon their enemies. But in the New testament prayers are never like that. Remember when John and James wanted to rain fire down upon a city? And Jesus rebuked them and asked them what Spirit they were of? Or Stephen when he was being stoned, he prayed that God forgive the ones throwing the rocks, because they really didn't understand what they were doing? I thnk when we think of George we can become angered at what has happened, and wonder at his lack of repentance. We want to warn others about him. But behind it all we are still praying that God would lead him to repent---because that is truly what the Lord wants.

"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance". And Jesus said to "pray for your enemies, and for those who spitefully abuse you".  At the same time though, we cannot be "forgiving" towards an unrepentant person. They need to be rebuked, exposed and warned about. But we should be unlike people like the Jehovah's Witnesses who long for judgment upon the world( one told me once "I can't wait for the day Jehovah shows you how wrong you are!!!")

This is just my opinion of course. I'll put it this way: I'm angry at George(and I do not feel that is wrong) for what he has done and continues to do. I'll speak of what happened to me under his teaching as a warning to others. I'll speak against the Assembly, because it is a harmful place. But I'll always pray that George and others repent and return to the Lord, and I'll rejoice when they do.

--Joe

[vernecarty]

Verne---

I would say that it is never right to pray for fire and brimstone to fall on anyone. In the Old Testament David and others prayed for judgment upon their enemies. But in the New testament prayers are never like that. Remember when John and James wanted to rain fire down upon a city? And Jesus rebuked them and asked them what Spirit they were of? Or Stephen when he was being stoned, he prayed that God forgive the ones throwing the rocks, because they really didn't understand what they were doing? I thnk when we think of George we can become angered at what has happened, and wonder at his lack of repentance. We want to warn others about him. But behind it all we are still praying that God would lead him to repent---because that is truly what the Lord wants.

"God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance". And Jesus said to "pray for your enemies, and for those who spitefully abuse you".  At the same time though, we cannot be "forgiving" towards an unrepentant person. They need to be rebuked, exposed and warned about. But we should be unlike people like the Jehovah's Witnesses who long for judgment upon the world( one told me once "I can't wait for the day Jehovah shows you how wrong you are!!!")

This is just my opinion of course. I'll put it this way: I'm angry at George(and I do not feel that is wrong) for what he has done and continues to do. I'll speak of what happened to me under his teaching as a warning to others. I'll speak against the Assembly, because it is a harmful place. But I'll always pray that George and others repent and return to the Lord, and I'll rejoice when they do.

--Joe

Joe I think you are right on the money. Of course I hope people realise that my fire and brimstone reference was partly tongue-in cheek but you got right to the spirit of my inquiry and that is the danger of cultivating a vengeful spirit.  I think we walk a fine path between a jealousy for the holiness and righteousness of God and remembering his injucntion to us to pray for our enemies. This is certainly an area in which we all could learn from the New Testament teaching regarding the standard love enjoins and willingness to learn from our brethren who have suffered, yet found God's grace to truly forgive from the heart. Thanks for the insightful response.
Verne

p.s I will confess that although I have prayed for George's repentance, every instinct I have tells me that arena of petition is closed to me...strange to think of God's word to Samuel as he grieved for the rejected Saul. I trust that I am wrong...I hope that I am wrong...