Respond to Brent's defense here.

[Uh Oh]

Isaiah 29
20   For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
21   That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
22   Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
23   But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
24   They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

Golden -

I would love to hear your warped interpetation of this passage.

[M2]

Does anybody else think that she really snookered us?
After-all she was apparently about to go "sight-less" and this latest has created quite a stir has it not? Death throes and rattles perhaps? Hmmmnnnn....!

I went to see Suzie's post. Probably my final visit. You leave feeling somewhat tainted...

Verne
p.s I quickly figured out she imagines her stature enhanced by attempting to engage, instruct and/or denigrate those viewed as having "gravitas". Pathetic creature...not too much truly original I fear...

It is not too often that  I feel the need to quote myself in an attempt at clarification (no snickering now!)  . The "she" in the above quote of course never referes to Suzie Tr0ckman.
Verne

There you go, quoting yourself again. I'm convinced that you are just attempting to get to 2nd place in a hurry. Don't worry, between Retread and myself we can come up with that complete collection in multiple copies, veeerrrryy soooon!
_________________________________________

I'll use the same post as I do not want to increase my post count too fast. To change the subject in Brent's defense. I discovered that Sondra did not reply to Brent's email attempts to settle the 'money' issue. And to quote Suzie "I think it is unjustifiable to provoke an innocent man to wrath with false accusations." Sondra's reason: "Before I could follow through and read what he had posted on AB - he had escalated the thing to a boil with several other boastful, sarcastic, threatening posts."

This is assembly tactics - frustrate an individual who attempts to resolve issues in private, and then criticize them for 'resorting' to posting on the BB.

History has shown that it is expedient to silence the messenger if the message is unpalatable.

Marcia

[vernecarty]

There you go, quoting yourself again. I'm convinced that you are just attempting to get to 2nd place in a hurry. Don't worry, between Retread and myself we can come up with that complete collection in multiple copies, veeerrrryy soooon!
_________________________________________
Marcia

Who... me??!!  
Verne

[editor]

I'll use the same post as I do not want to increase my post count too fast. To change the subject in Brent's defense. I discovered that Sondra did not reply to Brent's email attempts to settle the 'money' issue. And to quote Suzie "I think it is unjustifiable to provoke an innocent man to wrath with false accusations." Sondra's reason: "Before I could follow through and read what he had posted on AB - he had escalated the thing to a boil with several other boastful, sarcastic, threatening posts."

This is assembly tactics - frustrate an individual who attempts to resolve issues in private, and then criticize them for 'resorting' to posting on the BB.

History has shown that it is expedient to silence the messenger if the message is unpalatable.

Marcia

Hi Marcia

You didn't speak to me about this, so I'm not sure how you know about my email to her.  In email, I told her that I would talk with her privately about some of the "money" issues with Judy, but that it would be "after" she read my response to her.  

She publicly "called me out," and it required a public response.  The real issue here is not Judy, it is my reputation.  I didn't collect money, or solicit money for Judy, I mailed a money order that other people collected.  They did so in an honorable manner, for the right reasons.

So, it's not  correct that she frustrated my attempt to resolve the issue.  The manner I chose to resolve the issue was the way I did.

Those who want to love on George, excuse false teaching, forgive the unrepentant abusers, and condemn those that stand for the truth hated me before Sondra came along, and they won't hate me better even with her "help."

On the other hand, I don't think it could be clearer, judging from what she accused me of, and what actually happened.  Anyone with a shred of honesty can see through this.

Brent

[al Hartman]

Isaiah 29
20   For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
21   That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
22   Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
23   But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
24   They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

Seriously, Golden, would you please elaborate on these verses?...at least enough that we can see where you're going with them.  This is the kind of passage that dishonest people may use to back up illegitimate arguments, so unless your purpose in quoting it is stated, it is hardly fair to earnest seekers to leave it dangling before them with no explanation or attempt at guidance.          i want to believe you're sincere, but the nature of your postings makes it difficult.

i also want to believe you have a sense of humor.  Your previous post attributes to me a total of 592 posts:

Brent A. Tr0ckman  812
Arthur  574
vernecarty  429
jesusfreak -=Luke S=-  415
Retread Again  400
Mark C.  373
Marcia  354
Joe Sperling  340
Emily St  310
     al Hartman  296
     al Harman  296
Kimberly Tobin  291
David Mauldin  271
Greg Tobin  258
FREEBIRD (Garth)  236
Total Top 15 = 5655

...shouldn't that put me in 2nd place instead of in 10th & 11th?

al

[M2]

I'll use the same post as I do not want to increase my post count too fast. To change the subject in Brent's defense. I discovered that Sondra did not reply to Brent's email attempts to settle the 'money' issue. And to quote Suzie "I think it is unjustifiable to provoke an innocent man to wrath with false accusations." Sondra's reason: "Before I could follow through and read what he had posted on AB - he had escalated the thing to a boil with several other boastful, sarcastic, threatening posts."

This is assembly tactics - frustrate an individual who attempts to resolve issues in private, and then criticize them for 'resorting' to posting on the BB.

History has shown that it is expedient to silence the messenger if the message is unpalatable.

Marcia

Hi Marcia

You didn't speak to me about this, so I'm not sure how you know about my email to her.  In email, I told her that I would talk with her privately about some of the "money" issues with Judy, but that it would be "after" she read my response to her.  

She publicly "called me out," and it required a public response.  The real issue here is not Judy, it is my reputation.  I didn't collect money, or solicit money for Judy, I mailed a money order that other people collected.  They did so in an honorable manner, for the right reasons.

So, it's not  correct that she frustrated my attempt to resolve the issue.  The manner I chose to resolve the issue was the way I did.

Those who want to love on George, excuse false teaching, forgive the unrepentant abusers, and condemn those that stand for the truth hated me before Sondra came along, and they won't hate me better even with her "help."

On the other hand, I don't think it could be clearer, judging from what she accused me of, and what actually happened.  Anyone with a shred of honesty can see through this.

Brent

My apologies for the assumption I made ie that Sondra frustrated Brent in his attempt to resolve the issue privately. I read about Brent's emailing Sondra on her BB.

Marcia

[brian]

i don't know that my opinion on these things matters much, but i think brent could use the moral support, so here goes. and if my .02 might help clarify something to a person sincerely seeking the truth, then great. i would find it hard to believe that anyone sincere would be misled by the latest attacks on brent, judy and others.

i think that decades of dignity and courage in the face of abuse and stark fear deserves a little more than some rapidly devaluing stocks. a person can be robbed of more than money. this makes the whole issue of the exact value of the stocks david gave her quite pointless to me. given what else we know about david's character,  this single act of desperation hardly revolutionizes my perception of him, even if the stocks were worth over 100,000 at one point. after the abuse judy suffered at david's hands, she could have taken everything he had, and he knew it. she didn't because she would have had to give up some things she treasures far more deeply, such as dignity, privacy, personal freedom, a sense of safety.

it would seem that some people, such as heide and sondra, would gladly strip those hard-won priviledges from judy in order to gain a few more minutes in the spotlight for themselves, which personally makes me sick. it dosen't make any sense that sondra is unbothered by the millions of dollars people blindly gave to george during the height of his ungodliness and corruption, but she is scandalized by a theory she made up that very weakly implicates brent in the mismanagement of a few thousand dollars. yet she would have us believe that she was so outraged by the existence of the theory she made up that her conscience forced her to rush her theory and accusations straight to the only place that would publish them: her own bb. and all this after those volumes she posted about how money given out of sincerity and faith could never be given in vain. in my darker moments, i believe that anyone who could be misled by this woman deserves to be.

brent has answered her accusations directly and totally cleared himself, which was far more dignity than the spider-web thin theory sondra made up deserved. the 'soaring' bb has systematically searched for ways they could hurt someone prominent on this bb. they want to strike hard enough to get a reaction, any reaction, for the validation such reactions make them feel. they also want to hurt some people here because of personal vendattas that they have made perfectly clear in their own posts. such posters, in internet lingo, are called trolls. while our situation has further levels of complexity, much of what those on 'soaring' and others of their ilk have been engaging in is a common phenomenon described in more detail here:
http://www.urban75.com/Mag/troll.html

so i repeat what i said before: ignore them as much as possible, and be extra friendly and supportive of those at whom they decide to throw rocks. they will eventually go away. they don't have that much to say. we all know that ignoring them is not admitting to anything nor is it silent agreement. its just giving them the time and attention they deserve: none whatsoever.

if anyone can successfully sue someone on the 'soaring' bard for they reckless accusations, great. but sondra has made it clear that she has researched the legal precidents in such cases and that they are blatantly exploiting the gap that exists between the rate of technological advance and legal precident. yet in their endless thirst for attention they have gone out on some extremely slender limbs, and wouldn't it be interesting to see some landmark case come from this that would protect people's rights even on the internet? so let us continue to ignore them on this board, and see if they are actually desperate enough to drive themselves into a courtroom for attention...

brian

[M2]

Brian,

I just want to say that I agree with your post below. Thank you for taking the time share your perspective with us as we are all (or almost all) benefitted by it.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[Kimberley Tobin]

Well stated Brian.  I have sat with this for a few days trying to determine what, if anything, I was going to contribute in response to Sondra and her most recent attempt at inciting those who simply want to bring to light that which has been clothed in darkness for over three decades.  More "assembly learned" tactics (whether she will admit it or not!)

I am close friends with Rachel.  I received a call from a weeping Rachel once she became aware of the false accusations that were being leveled at her and her mother (even prior to Sondra's ridiculous, malicious attempt at libeling Brent) on the "soaring" site.  Sondra had stooped to a "new" low!  After all that Judy and Rachel have been through, having to defend themselves on a dispicable BB solely used to defend GG and his "assembly" system, is nothing short of evil.  

I AM OUTRAGED!!!!!!!!!  Haven't they been through enough (SONDRA??)  It would be nice to simply "leave them alone", "just ignore them", etc.  And of course, this kind of attack is meant to do exactly what it has incited.  Those who are enraged at the "assembly" tactics CANNOT remain silent.  We will no longer be a party to the "code of silence."  And it is convenient for them to say things like, "their silence is evidence of their guilt."  More assembly tactics that force a response (and heated at that if you have any personality!)

For those who have come out of the assembly system willingly, with their eyes opened, see Sondra and her ilk for what they are: dispicable human beings (yes, Christ died for them, I hope she repents!)  But dispicable, none the less.  We also are not swayed by her groundless, unsubstantiated accusations.  It is those who remain in the assembly (whether "meeting" or not, I am speaking of the "assembly mindset") who will support her in her endeavors.

SONDRA, YOU MAKE ME SICK!

I have to go now, but had to vent for a moment.  Haven't even touched on Brent's situation, but will do so at a later date, when I have a free moment.

[vernecarty]

SONDRA, YOU MAKE ME SICK!

The is a very clear Biblical reason for her condition. We need to pray for her...
Verne

[golden2]

 Isaiah 29
20  For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
21  That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.
22  Therefore thus saith the LORD, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, Jacob shall not now be ashamed, neither shall his face now wax pale.
23  But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, they shall sanctify my name, and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.
24  They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding, and they that murmured shall learn doctrine.

[retread]

i don't know that my opinion on these things matters much, but i think brent could use the moral support, so here goes. and if my .02 might help clarify something to a person sincerely seeking the truth, then great. i would find it hard to believe that anyone sincere would be misled by the latest attacks on brent, judy and others.
...

If you mean by sincere that their motives are pure then I would tend to agree, but if you mean by sincere only that their actions are in agreement with their beliefs, then I would say that their are some who could be deceived that they are correct and that they are believing and doing the right thing, and yet still be horribly deceived.  There are those out there who may have deceived themselves into believing that their intentions are pure when they are not.  These are the folks that are in danger of being misled by such attacks.  Folks that have been blinded by lies sometimes will take shortcuts in logic and accept more lies without questioning, regardless of how ludicrous these lies may be.

As for suing Sondra, I would like for Brent not to have to go through all the trouble and aggravation that this would involve.  Legal action should be avoided when possible, but sometimes it must be used at last resort.  Whether it is worth the trouble or not is Brent's call in this case.  But whatever Brent's decision is in this case, I trust that since Brent is a reasonable and rational person who trusts in the Lord, that he has made the appropriate decision.  We all are praying about this, right?

[al Hartman]

i don't know that my opinion on these things matters much, but i think brent could use the moral support, so here goes. and if my .02 might help clarify something to a person sincerely seeking the truth, then great. i would find it hard to believe that anyone sincere would be misled by the latest attacks on brent, judy and others.
...

If you mean by sincere that their motives are pure then I would tend to agree, but if you mean by sincere only that their actions are in agreement with their beliefs, then I would say that their are some who could be deceived that they are correct and that they are believing and doing the right thing, and yet still be horribly deceived.  There are those out there who may have deceived themselves into believing that their intentions are pure when they are not.  These are the folks that are in danger of being misled by such attacks.  Folks that have been blinded by lies sometimes will take shortcuts in logic and accept more lies without questioning, regardless of how ludicrous these lies may be. :(

     How often have we heard George say "It is possible to be sincere, and be sincerely wrong?"  Little did we realize it was a self-fulfilling prophecy for us...
     It is vital to all of us that we remember where we have been:  In spite of the Light we have seen and responded to, and our feelings about the past we have suffered, we were subjected to a barrage of mind-numbing misteaching in which black was called white & darkness was called light.  It is natural for us to have a pavlovian response to certain terminology, not because of its true meaning, but because of what we have been brainwashed to believe it meant.  We must be constant and consistent in turning our faces toward Jesus Christ, both in our personal meditations upon God's Word and in our intercession for our brothers & sisters.  The Lord alone can & will heal & deliver us.

As for suing Sondra, I would like for Brent not to have to go through all the trouble and aggravation that this would involve.  Legal action should be avoided when possible, but sometimes it must be used at last resort.  Whether it is worth the trouble or not is Brent's call in this case.  But whatever Brent's decision is in this case, I trust that since Brent is a reasonable and rational person who trusts in the Lord, that he has made the appropriate decision.

 

     We need not be agreed on every fine point of discussion, but the fundamentals are simple & clear:  the Truth is of God & is  blessed;  the lie is of satan & is damned.  All who recognize these things are standing with you, Brent, as you follow the Lord.

We all are praying about this, right?

     Amen!  Right?!

al Hartman    P.S.--Brian, your opinion matters much to us!!!

[M2]

Well stated Brian.  I have sat with this for a few days trying to determine what, if anything, I was going to contribute in response to Sondra and her most recent attempt at inciting those who simply want to bring to light that which has been clothed in darkness for over three decades.  More "assembly learned" tactics (whether she will admit it or not!)

I am close friends with Rachel.  I received a call from a weeping Rachel once she became aware of the false accusations that were being leveled at her and her mother (even prior to Sondra's ridiculous, malicious attempt at libeling Brent) on the "soaring" site.  Sondra had stooped to a "new" low!  After all that Judy and Rachel have been through, having to defend themselves on a dispicable BB solely used to defend GG and his "assembly" system, is nothing short of evil.  

I AM OUTRAGED!!!!!!!!!  Haven't they been through enough (SONDRA??)  It would be nice to simply "leave them alone", "just ignore them", etc.  And of course, this kind of attack is meant to do exactly what it has incited.  Those who are enraged at the "assembly" tactics CANNOT remain silent.  We will no longer be a party to the "code of silence."  And it is convenient for them to say things like, "their silence is evidence of their guilt."  More assembly tactics that force a response (and heated at that if you have any personality!)
...

Sondra if of the opinion that whatever we have experienced, she has, and therefore has the needed 'wisdom' to comment and criticize. Her commentary is primarily according to how she has or would have responded in the dilemna. Then she brings in verses to support (or so she thinks) her point of view. Though she has been "out" for 10+ years, the assembly mentality remains strong within her. She is still operating in the fog of assembly deception.

This is not to belittle the fact that Sondra has had some difficult times herself and has learned to deal with her dilemnas in some fashion or another. But that does not give Sondra the right to impose her way of dealing with dilemnas upon others.

The only proper way is God's way.

MAT 18:15 ¶ "And if your brother sins, go and reprove him in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
MAT 18:16 "But if he does not listen to you, take one or two more with you, so that by the mouth of two or three witnesses every fact may be confirmed.
MAT 18:17 "And if he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax-gatherer.

The Website and the BB was a last resort measure AFTER all of the above had been attempted.

If you mean by sincere that their motives are pure then I would tend to agree, but if you mean by sincere only that their actions are in agreement with their beliefs, then I would say that their are some who could be deceived that they are correct and that they are believing and doing the right thing, and yet still be horribly deceived.  There are those out there who may have deceived themselves into believing that their intentions are pure when they are not.  These are the folks that are in danger of being misled by such attacks.  Folks that have been blinded by lies sometimes will take shortcuts in logic and accept more lies without questioning, regardless of how ludicrous these lies may be.
...

Retread,

I agree with what you have stated above. Many in the assembly were sincerely deceived. It is sad that those who are yet 'assembly sympathetic'  continue to remain in a state of deception. I believe that they do so by their own choice. God has sent many warning signals and they continue to refuse the wake up calls. Truth is only discovered by the truly honest inquirer. What will it take to break through the fog of deception?

Lord bless,
Marcia

[vernecarty]

What will it take to break through the fog of deception?

Lord bless,
Marcia

God has in His wisdom admonished us to "leave them alone".
This is paramount. Some are to be rejected not recovered.  As a child of God you will save yourself much sorrow by knowing the difference...

And of some have compassion, making a difference
Jude 22

Verne