Respond to Brent's defense here.

[Joe Sperling]

I unfortunately visited SWTE(as is my custom each morning to visit all the BB's) and read the thread concerning "contributions" and the veiled accusation that Brent may have absconded with $15,000. It reminded me of those cases, like O.J., where the "accused" attempts to smear the character of the "victim", or a  trial where the "victim" suddenly becomes the focus and THEIR character becoming the issue. The trial is then manipulated to make the accused the "victim", and the victim the "criminal". We will most likely see this happen in the Kobe Bryant trial that is taking place.

I know that when I see the types of things mentioned above happen I can only say "That's evil". There's something about it that is inherently evil. And the accusations are always made to garner a lasting effect. It's like that question "Have you stopped beating your wife?" Whether you answer "yes" or "no" it still implies guilt. It's the slander that comes from the enemy--a twisting, warping accusation that attempts to take the eyes off of those really at fault, and focus them on the victims of that person instead.

Forget about the leader, who hurt hundreds of people, compromised the morality of women, used thousands of dollars of funds for his "journeys", and instead focus on the "exposer" of this man and his ministry, and accuse him of "hurting hundreds of people" and absconding with money meant for an abuse victim.(and offer to keep confidential any iformation you can obtain from others about this "theft"). Does anyone hear a "hissing" sound? Yes--the "Accuser of the Brethren" is still alive and well, and at work.


--Joe

[vernecarty]

It's the slander that comes from the enemy--a twisting, warping accusation that attempts to take the eyes off of those really at fault, and focus them on the victims of that person instead.

--Joe

I dont want to squander any precious thoughtlets on this crew but isn't it interesting that the very ones who hurl invectives at others and impugn their motives completely fail to recognize the spirit of Diablos that drives them? They know not what spirit they are of...!
Verne

[Heide]

I leave for 25 days, finally come home and read the websites, then my computer crashes just as I want to say something. So then I have to reboot and add everything manually. JUST SO I CAN SAY SOMETHING!!!! I am OUTRAGED that implications were made using me to discredit Brent! I never said, stated or implied to ANYONE the information that is being portrayed here. The information that Brent would take money is downright untruthful. I use words to describe people, the words I use for Brent are integrity and honorable.

Last week while out in the field and away from civilization (thank God for cell phones!) I was called from a mutual friend who let me know what was going on and it started me thinking...

Here's where it led.......".......It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.  The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcomings;but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at best knows in the end the triumph of high achivement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat......"
Theodore Roosevelt  April 1910

In my mind, Brent is the man in the arena. For someone to use my name to discredit Brent is so outrageous to me, I cannot even define the anger it brings to me. Brent is a man of honor, there is no place in him that would lie or steal. To even imply such a thing tells me that your character is so rotten that  I don't want anything to do with you.

Heide C. Johnson

Brent, can we not do hunter safety? Let's get the kids in the water and diving!

[editor]

I leave for 25 days, finally come home and read the websites, then my computer crashes just as I want to say something. So then I have to reboot and add everything manually. JUST SO I CAN SAY SOMETHING!!!! I am OUTRAGED that implications were made using me to discredit Brent! I never said, stated or implied to ANYONE the information that is being portrayed here. The information that Brent would take money is downright untruthful. I use words to describe people, the words I use for Brent are integrity and honorable.

Last week while out in the field and away from civilization (thank God for cell phones!) I was called from a mutual friend who let me know what was going on and it started me thinking...

Here's where it led.......".......It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better.  The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcomings;but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at best knows in the end the triumph of high achivement, and who at worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat......"
Theodore Roosevelt  April 1910

In my mind, Brent is the man in the arena. For someone to use my name to discredit Brent is so outrageous to me, I cannot even define the anger it brings to me. Brent is a man of honor, there is no place in him that would lie or steal. To even imply such a thing tells me that your character is so rotten that  I don't want anything to do with you.

Heide C. Johnson

Brent, can we not do hunter safety? Let's get the kids in the water and diving!

Thanks Heide:

Again, as I have stated many times, I am happy to receive criticism, and I will reap what I have sown, same as any other man.  However, I have never taken money, or done any of the things that were said about me on the Seagull's.

Heide was Sondra's one "witness," and I think it is pretty clear where she stands.  I think it also sheds some light on the Seagull's version of "moderation," "courtesy," and "trooth."

The reason I reacted so violently to this particular thing is that I do not want my name associated with Geftakys finance, in this particular manner at the present time.  There are plenty of other things that can be said about me in order to make me look bad without making up lies.  

I hope that we can put this thread to bed, and forget about it.

[al Hartman]

I hope that we can put this thread to bed, and forget about it.

     OK-- nitey-night, sleep tight, little thread.

     (Sorry, Brent, but i need the post-- still trying to break back into the top 10, ya know! )

     Oh, yeah...  while on THAT subject, isn't it about time that the "Leading Postrix" title should go to Marcia?  Emily St is still credited with it, but she hasn't posted in nearly 10 months, and Marcia surpassed her long ago.  (Let's see you mount a defense for THAT, Mr. Administrator! )

Tongue-in-cheekily,
al

[Kimberley Tobin]

     Oh, yeah...  while on THAT subject, isn't it about time that the "Leading Postrix" title should go to Marcia?  Emily St is still credited with it, but she hasn't posted in nearly 10 months, and Marcia surpassed her long ago.  (Let's see you mount a defense for THAT, Mr. Administrator! )

Tongue-in-cheekily,
al

If truth be known (oh, when does the truth matter? ) our "Miss Emily" obtained the majority of her posts through an "All Night of Posting" we held, almost at the beginning of this board.  It was a hilarious night of fun (and we went into the wee hours of the morning,  ), but it wasn't through the normal course of posting ones and twos a day.  I think Marcia most assuradely deserves the title for her contributions to the board.

[Heide]

One more thing, in getting to read everyones post I see where I came into the picture. Your post Brian lists me with Sondra as wanting more limelight.....

Maybe you can answer this, Brian. In the SLO assembly there was money gathered for Judy, Judy had already rec'd the stock portfolio which the SLO saints were not told about. Some of these people dug deep into their pockets, they didn't have alot to give but they did. Then they find out about the stocks and they feel betrayed. They are angry. They ask me why they weren't told about it. It is one thing to gather for someone who has nothing, it is another to gather for someone under false pretenses. The word that keeps coming up is censorship. The information was not made public about the stocks. It was withheld.

My question to you is, if you gave money to Judy thinking she was in dire need and then found out she had been given money from David, how would you feel?

If you can give me a satisfactory answer Brian, I will drop it. But the people that I talk to feel betrayed....

Heide C. Johnson

[editor]

One more thing, in getting to read everyones post I see where I came into the picture. Your post Brian lists me with Sondra as wanting more limelight.....

Maybe you can answer this, Brian. In the SLO assembly there was money gathered for Judy, Judy had already rec'd the stock portfolio which the SLO saints were not told about. Some of these people dug deep into their pockets, they didn't have alot to give but they did. Then they find out about the stocks and they feel betrayed. They are angry. They ask me why they weren't told about it. It is one thing to gather for someone who has nothing, it is another to gather for someone under false pretenses. The word that keeps coming up is censorship. The information was not made public about the stocks. It was withheld.

My question to you is, if you gave money to Judy thinking she was in dire need and then found out she had been given money from David, how would you feel?

If you can give me a satisfactory answer Brian, I will drop it. But the people that I talk to feel betrayed....

Heide C. Johnson

I will give you my perspective on this, while holding my nose.

First of all, it is rude, unseemly and very base to discuss a third party's private financial life in public like this.  It is even worse when the context is divorce.

Heide,  your timetable is off.  However, for the sake of discussion, let's assume that she received 172,000.00 in stocks.  (I know the symbols, the broker and the source of the money, but it is none of anyone's business.)

Judy had a broken foot, that required surgery and made it impossible for her to work.  She was landscaping at the time, and doing massage.  This is pre-law firm.

At the same time, Rebecca received third degree burn and required hospitilazation and plastic surgery.  They had no insurance, as all their previous (and considerable) medical bills were always paid in cash from the Lord's Treasury.  In Southern California, a day in the hospital costs about thirty thousand dollars.  Plastic and Orthopedic surgery is very /i] expensive as well.  I guarantee that even if the value was 172,000.00 it would scarcely have covered the medical expenses, if that.

However, for the sake of discussion, let us assume that Judy's entire net worth should have been disclosed, along with her personal budget, prior to telling people they can give money to her.  (Of course this is ridiculous, but let's just assume that it is proper.)

Given the above, where is the outrage that these "betrayed," people have regarding David's handling of their tithes for all those decades?  How about George's secrecy with the money from the entire ministry?  If someone is going to get bent out of shape after giving to Judy, and say they feel betrayed, but they are going to basically remain silent about everything else that went on, I can only conclude that they are still in the fog of deception and they are straining at gnats while swallowing camels.  I know this to be true----if what you say is true.  I have heard of no such outrage from anyone in SLO.

The total amount of money Judy revceived was 3500.00 dollars, and two thousand of that was from two individuals,  NOT from the "betrayed" people that Heide is talking about.  I didn't give Judy a penny of my money, although it certainly would have been easier to do that than what I did do for her, and all of you.  

Bottom line:

1.  It's none of your business what money she received from David.
2.  If you gave her money, and want it back, ask her for it.  Remember Matt 18?  What is it about you people that makes you think you can act rudely towards someone in public when you haven't even talked to them about getting your money back?
3.  Judy's bills far exceeded her income at the time, stocks or not.
4.  People who were involved in the ministry have the poorest discernment skills of anyone I have ever met.

DROP IT!  It's none of your business how much stock she got.  Very few of you did a dam# thing to help her, with a few notable exceptions.  Is Judy Mother Teresa?  Nope.  Is she Joan of Arc?  Definitely not.   Is she innocent?  No, she isn't.  Is she a victim of the Geftakys's------yes, the biggest.

If you want your money back, call her up and ask her.  Then bring two or three others, and only then put it on the BB----that is if you are totally lacking in social grace.  

BTW, one of the two people who gave her one thousand dollars has kept his/her mouth shut about it.  The other hasn't. (on edit, I'm not talking about Heide)

Drop it.  Stop it.  Leave it alone.  

Brent