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Author Topic: Looking For a New Church Home  (Read 7409 times)
Kimberley Tobin
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« on: December 14, 2003, 09:04:34 pm »

My husband and I had a recent experience that caused me to start a new thread.

Some background info:  When we left the assembly a little over a year ago in the San Fernando Valley it only took us about four weeks to find a wonderful, grace preaching church.  This enabled us to become grounded in the liberating message of grace which brought wonderful healing to our family and relationship with Christ.

A year later we have since moved to the San Diego area and took some time "off" from church shopping (long story.)  My husband and I finally visited a church in the area to see if we could find a good church home, like we had discovered in the LA area.  The people were really friendly and there was a cross section of people of all ages.  However, the sermon took me by surprise.  It started off well enough.  The pastors' first point was, "It's all about God!"  If he would have stopped there and continued supporting that theme, I would have been overjoyed and contemplated returning for another visit.  But the remaining four points consisted of what we had to do as "mature christians" in order to receive "rewards."  It was replete with assembly themes of discussing "worldly christians" (in a negative way) and how it matters that we are "mature christians".  I don't think he was even aware how contradictory his four points were to his first point!  But I heard it LOUD AND CLEAR!

I couldn't get out of there fast enough!

MY POINT:  If you are having a hard time looking for a new church home, discouraged with the same theme being preached as the assembly (with perhaps a little less fervor), press on.  There are churches out there that preach a grace based theme, you just have to find them.  Brent had a good guideline on the other BB under the "Mind Control" thread, so I won't repeat it here.  Just suffice it to say, look for a church that is taken up with preaching Christ and Christ alone.  Not what you have "to do".  (This is partly why I lean more towards a Calvanist theology than any other. Wink)

Happy hunting! Grin
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editor
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2003, 03:28:30 am »

My husband and I had a recent experience that caused me to start a new thread.

Some background info:  When we left the assembly a little over a year ago in the San Fernando Valley it only took us about four weeks to find a wonderful, grace preaching church.  This enabled us to become grounded in the liberating message of grace which brought wonderful healing to our family and relationship with Christ.

A year later we have since moved to the San Diego area and took some time "off" from church shopping (long story.)  My husband and I finally visited a church in the area to see if we could find a good church home, like we had discovered in the LA area.  The people were really friendly and there was a cross section of people of all ages.  However, the sermon took me by surprise.  It started off well enough.  The pastors' first point was, "It's all about God!"  If he would have stopped there and continued supporting that theme, I would have been overjoyed and contemplated returning for another visit.  But the remaining four points consisted of what we had to do as "mature christians" in order to receive "rewards."  It was replete with assembly themes of discussing "worldly christians" (in a negative way) and how it matters that we are "mature christians".  I don't think he was even aware how contradictory his four points were to his first point!  But I heard it LOUD AND CLEAR!

I couldn't get out of there fast enough!

MY POINT:  If you are having a hard time looking for a new church home, discouraged with the same theme being preached as the assembly (with perhaps a little less fervor), press on.  There are churches out there that preach a grace based theme, you just have to find them.  Brent had a good guideline on the other BB under the "Mind Control" thread, so I won't repeat it here.  Just suffice it to say, look for a church that is taken up with preaching Christ and Christ alone.  Not what you have "to do".  (This is partly why I lean more towards a Calvanist theology than any other. Wink)

Happy hunting! Grin

Good Advice Kimberley!

Also, I have found that you really can't make a decision after attending just once or twice, unless something is really whacky.  Every now and then, our pastor at Calvary SLO has a "bad" message, but mostly they are excellent.   It is a good idea, if you like a church, to go a few times to get a better idea what it is like.  Same for one you don't like.

A growing church, full of healthy, mature Christians did not get that way through legalistic preaching, even if the pastor shanks a message or two from time to time.  On the other hand,  great preaching alone is only part of the picture.

On top of that, is exactly what you just said above, "We couldn't get out of there fast enough."  If you just know something is wrong, or feel certain that there is no way you could be involved somewhere, move on!

There are plenty of excellent, evangelical churches out there.  Keep us posted as to how you are progressing Kimberley.

Brent
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Mark C.
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2003, 03:45:56 am »

Hi Kimberley!  Smiley
  You have raised a topic that I was thinking about bringing up on the Wounded Pilgrims thread as another thing we must face after leaving the Assembly.  Since you have raised the issue here I will just make my comments on this thread and see what others have to say.
  Nothing like visiting churches proves the point that we received some pretty big wounds from our Assembly past.  We can come to church with the mindset that we will not allow our old Assembly thinking/feelings to control our responses to the event only to react like someone poured salt into an open wound!
  Things like, "are those who welcome me really sincere, or are they just trying to get us to join up like they did in the Assembly?"  "When the preacher uses certain trigger phrases like, 'commitment', 'surrender', 'putting God first in our lives', what does he really mean by that?"
   In other words we are very fearful of getting hurt again and know only too well how these above phrases and actions can be used to serve the group, but not the individual in their lives with the Lord.
   It does no good to tell ourselves that these folks don't mean by what they do and say what the Assembly meant by it as our emotional reactions take over and we can feel like Kimberley and start looking for the exits.  I have heard of this reaction many times and one person told me they were on the verge of throwing a large hymn book at the preacher as he held forth on all the things God wanted us to do as Christians.
   The Bible is loaded with commands about actions and attitudes that we should adopt now that we are Christians and this provides ample ammunition for Christian preachers who are unaware of those wounded from performance based systems of belief who are listening and ready to fire back with large hymn books! Wink
  My experience is that these preachers have no idea that their message would possibly be received in the way that would trigger such strong emotional reaction.
   I talked with one pastor soon after leaving the Assembly about a message he brought on commitment and how it bothered me.  He felt that "commitment was the key to intimacy with Christ," and that "this is what it meant to abide in Christ."  When I asked him, "commitment to what?" he could only come up with a general kind of statement: "commitment to God."  Iasked, " in a personal devotional way, to the church, to one another, to personal behavior that glorifies God, or all of the above?  And if it is any or all of these to what level of success must I gain in order to experience abiding in Christ?"
   The pastor was stunned by the question and saw that he was caught in a kind of trap of promoting a course of action that sounded good, but made our inheritance of life in Christ unattainable.  This is what I mean by an earlier post that stated that we as Wounded Pilgrims can be a great blessing to our brethren in the evangelical world,
   Yes, God wants commitment, obedience, Christ likeness, and commands us to walk worthy of our calling, but not as a means to intimacy rather as a result of the fact of our union with Christ.  Before we get to Ephesians chpts. 4-6 we need to read 1-3 where we see that we are safely bound together with Christ for eternity and are now His beloved children.
  This is the grace that Kimberley mentions and what we as exassemblyites need so desperately to concentrate on for it is the means of healing, restoration, and life.   Those who have not lived through what we did also need to understand this, but God has sent us before to be a living message for our brethren that might give them pause for thought.  
   Trials will come to everyone and in that sense we are all Wounded Pilgrims and God has fitted us to come along side and comfort these with the message of hope of the grace of God.  Our own sinful humanity has a way of pulling off our poorly attached fig leaves and showing us for the phonies we really are. Shocked
   As I also mentioned before conservative Christians easily run the risk of slipping out of a grace based relationship and getting into the ol' rat race of performance based kind of religion.  For us such a mistake will not be made again for we bear in our body the scars of that mistaken path and our new sensitivity will cause us to react very quickly to any hint of such a curse filled way!
    Let's pray for Kimberley and all of us that we find places that either understand grace or are open to understanding it in a clearer light.
                      God bless and Merry Christmas!! Smiley
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M2
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« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2003, 09:05:50 am »

I'm just adding my 2 cents to this discussion.

In my search for a new place of fellowship I took some advice from what someone(aka Brent) had posted on this BB, ie to look for a living, growing church. A number of Pentecostal churches have large membership, and there is even one in my back yard, but I did not feel comfortable to go from assembly to Pentecostal. I also did not want to go with the Brethren because that might be too similar to the assembly. So I limited myself to Baptist churches and Bible Churches. I discovered that all Baptist churches are not alike. There is one very close to my home; one Sunday I drove around in their parking lot, counted 7 cars there, and drove right back home. I have now settled with a Baptist church that is 15 - 20 minutes away, but is living and growing. If I had not settled with that one, I was planning to check out Christian Reform and Christian Missionary Alliance churches as well.

Dave Sable's article on GA.com is very excellent: http://www.geftakysassembly.com/Articles/TeachingPractice/HealthyAssemblyAfterLife.htm

Lord bless,
Marcia
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Peacefulg
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« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2003, 09:35:03 am »

Hi Marcia, you bring up a good point about not all chruches in a denomination being the same, reminds me of something I read recently.

Quote
Since Denominations are today defined along ideological categories and not ecclesiastical ones a person can not look to the Ecclesiastical identifier on the Church sign (if there is one) in order to really know what one will find inside the Church. Rather, one must look for ideological benchmarks in order to be able to determine what ideological denomination the Church is that they are attending. The implication of this is that there are Congregations today that belong to one denomination ecclesiastically speaking while belonging to another denomination ideologically speaking. This means that ideologically speaking you have Denominations that are comprised by many different churches ecclesiastically speaking. In one Ideological denomination it is not uncommon to have Wesleyan Churches, Reformed Churches, Baptists Churches, Presbyterian Churches, Independent Churches and any number of other congregations that at the same time are Ecclesiastically defined as belonging to another denomination. So while the Ecclesiastical denomination from where these congregations are coming from are increasingly irrelevant in terms of guidance and doctrine, the concept of Denomination as being a unifying organization is still strong and healthy, if only by providing a ideological ethos that these churches operate out of and within.
  http://www.acidink.org/200312archive001.asp#1071165072001

An exmaple of this from my own travels is that Calvary Chapels in Texas are way different than those in California (especially So. Cal).  They they all have their ties to Costa Mesa, you would never know it for not the decending dove symbol, or the Pator Chuck books in the book store.

Mrs. Tobin and family will pray that the Lord lead you to a place were He is Lord of all PERIOD!!!.

Cheers,
G
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