Salvation is a Gift....now what?

[editor]

Please,

On this thread, let's try as much as possible not to drift to far off topic!

If salvation is a gift----I'm sure most of us agree with that----then what must one do to be saved?

Are we saved when we accept the gift?  You have probably heard this type of approach,  "God so loved you that He gave His Only Son to die in your place!  All you need to do is:

1.)admit you are a sinner
2.)believe that Jesus Christ paid for your sins on the cross
3.)ask Jesus to come into your heart
4.)purpose to live a life that honors God."

Granted, perhaps 1-3 are more popular than all four.  

Here are my questions:

In the model above, salvation requires three or four things from us.  Can this be called a "free gift," when we cannot get it unless we do 1-3?

Or, is salvation NOT a free gift?

Or, is the model outlined above not really the way a person gets saved at all, despite its current popularity?

Or, are there other ways of looking at it that I haven't mentioned at all?

Brent

[jesusfreak]

Before anything else, I gotta say that this thread is going to get quite quite long  

--
lucas

[editor]

Before anything else, I gotta say that this thread is going to get quite quite long  

--
lucas

good!  I think it's worthwhile.

Brent

[Scott McCumber]

Before anything else, I gotta say that this thread is going to get quite quite long  

--
lucas

Actually, I think it's about the third thread on the same topic.

Are we making any headway?

S

[jesusfreak]

In the model above, salvation requires three or four things from us.  Can this be called a "free gift," when we cannot get it unless we do 1-3?

I hold that carnal knowledge of Jesus is not required. Therefore, that kills all but 2.  I would also hold that the 4th comes automatically and is irrelevant to include....

Or, is salvation NOT a free gift?

I view salvation as a tunnel through an impediment.  A free gift to be sure, equal to EVERY Man God created.

Or, is the model outlined above not really the way a person gets saved at all, despite its current popularity?

I don't like it  

I don't wish to flood this thread with my reasoning behind any of my answers, but if anyone is really interested - www.forceboy.com/LFUR is a decently organized collection I wrote a couple days ago.  Also, if anyone really really has too much time on their hands; myself, Brent, (and i think Joseph R?) went at this a little while ago, with the thread being http://www.buildingup.net/post/viewtopic.php?t=302&start=0 (starts around the 10th post).


(I should also add the disclaimer that the forceboy.com/LFUR page is a collection of the logic behind my thoughts - if there are any questions regarding my conclusions from my thoughts, please ask rather than assume (I usually don't bother being as clear or consice as I cant be in such writing)  
--
lucas

[BenJapheth]

Please,

On this thread, let's try as much as possible not to drift to far off topic!

If salvation is a gift----I'm sure most of us agree with that----then what must one do to be saved?

Are we saved when we accept the gift?  You have probably heard this type of approach,  "God so loved you that He gave His Only Son to die in your place!  All you need to do is:

1.)admit you are a sinner
2.)believe that Jesus Christ paid for your sins on the cross
3.)ask Jesus to come into your heart
4.)purpose to live a life that honors God."

Granted, perhaps 1-3 are more popular than all four.  

Here are my questions:

In the model above, salvation requires three or four things from us.  Can this be called a "free gift," when we cannot get it unless we do 1-3?

Or, is salvation NOT a free gift?

Or, is the model outlined above not really the way a person gets saved at all, despite its current popularity?

Or, are there other ways of looking at it that I haven't mentioned at all?

Brent

Question - Was the good Samaritan saved?  

::c:v::

[editor]

Question - Was the good Samaritan saved?  

::c:v::

Hi Chuck,

Good to see your digitally reproduced words again!  Happy Freedom day to you!

RE: your question above,  now we're talking!

My answer, I don't know......however, he did do the will of God, in contrast to the Pharisee, who only talked about the will of God.  So, if I had to be pinned down, I would say yes, he was saved.

How do you see this in regard to the thread?

Brent

[moonflower2]

If salvation is a gift----I'm sure most of us agree with that----then what must one do to be saved?

Brent

Take it.

[editor]

If salvation is a gift----I'm sure most of us agree with that----then what must one do to be saved?

Brent

Take it.

OK,  while I think that the simplicity of your statement is wonderful, and no doubt it is that simple,  how does this jive with the idea that we aren't saved by works?

Is the act of taking it a work?  Do we make too much fuss about works?  Is salvation a result of both faith and works?

Please understand, I am not trying to belabor this, confuse it, or say something controversial.  I have a definite reason for asking this question.

Before we move on,   I hope some others would be so bold as moonflower2, and state what they think about it.

If salvation is a gift----I'm sure most of us agree with that----then what must one do to be saved?

[Scott McCumber]

Please,

On this thread, let's try as much as possible not to drift to far off topic!

If salvation is a gift----I'm sure most of us agree with that----then what must one do to be saved?

Are we saved when we accept the gift?  You have probably heard this type of approach,  "God so loved you that He gave His Only Son to die in your place!  All you need to do is:

1.)admit you are a sinner
2.)believe that Jesus Christ paid for your sins on the cross
3.)ask Jesus to come into your heart
4.)purpose to live a life that honors God."

Granted, perhaps 1-3 are more popular than all four.  

Here are my questions:

In the model above, salvation requires three or four things from us.  Can this be called a "free gift," when we cannot get it unless we do 1-3?

Or, is salvation NOT a free gift?

Or, is the model outlined above not really the way a person gets saved at all, despite its current popularity?

Or, are there other ways of looking at it that I haven't mentioned at all?

Brent

Is this what the thief on the cross next to Jesus did?

I think maybe the key is acceptance of the gift in your heart without going through a formula to get it.

So does the formula above help someone who has never heard the gospel before understand salvation more easily? Or does it merely enable the natural man's inclination that there must be something I need to do to get this?

As for #4, Dabney says there is a difference between purposing to live a life for Christ and being regenerated and inspired to live a life for Christ.

Is there a correlation to salvation in that? Is there a moment of conviction when the Holy Spirit speaks to someone and they accept the gift to the very core of their being as opposed to someone who follows the formula, believes they're saved but never experiences the new life that comes from regeneration?

These aren't rhetorical questions, by the way, I don't know the answers and I don't take for granted anything that I thought I knew before I started questioning my doctrinal history.

S

[Scott McCumber]

If salvation is a gift----I'm sure most of us agree with that----then what must one do to be saved?

Brent

Take it.

OK,  while I think that the simplicity of your statement is wonderful, and no doubt it is that simple,  how does this jive with the idea that we aren't saved by works?

Is the act of taking it a work?  Do we make too much fuss about works?  Is salvation a result of both faith and works?

Please understand, I am not trying to belabor this, confuse it, or say something controversial.  I have a definite reason for asking this question.

Before we move on,   I hope some others would be so bold as moonflower2, and state what they think about it.

If salvation is a gift----I'm sure most of us agree with that----then what must one do to be saved?

How about a word study on the difference between "accept" and "take." Isn't accept a passive verb, kind of like acknowledge? As opposed to take which denotes some type of action.

[M2]

ROM 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
ROM 10:10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

ROM 10:13 for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

EPH 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[Scott McCumber]

ROM 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
ROM 10:10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

ROM 10:13 for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

EPH 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

Yes, but is that a work? That almost makes it sound like we have to meet Christ halfway. Or that we have to reach out to him.

Or is it that the belief is quickened in us and the Holy Spirit causes (enables?) us to confess the truth?

S

[editor]

ROM 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved;
ROM 10:10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

ROM 10:13 for "Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord will be saved."

EPH 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

These verses seem to be quite clear.  Confession, true belief and a calling upon the Lord are necessary to be saved, or are they?

Therefore hear the parable of the sower:  19  "When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand [it], then the wicked [one] comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who  received  seed by the wayside.  20  "But he who  received  the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;  21  "yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.  22  "Now he who  received  seed among the thorns is he who hears the word, and the cares of this world and the deceitfulness of riches choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.  23  "But he who  received  seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands [it], who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty."

Just to throw something else in the mix,  I submit that simply receiving the Word does not result in salvation.  Also, it doesn't say anywhere that we must accept Him,  however, it does say that He has accepted us!

I submit that confession, repentance, and calling upon The Lord is fruit, or evidence of salvation, and not what brings it about.  BTW, I am still NOT a Calvinist.

The reason I am bringing this up----and there is so much more to say about this----is that I hope to talk about the type of theology we were taught under George, and root out the various aspects of it that will come back to trouble us.  

If we start at the beginning, then we can "  As you have therefore  received  Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, "

I think it is important to get the beginning right, so we can continue on the right path.  The Galatians started right, but became confused, thinking that they could be "better" Christians if they did certain things that seemed to from The Word.  In the same way,  many of us struggle as a result of not really understanding salvation and grace from the get go.

This doesn't mean that we aren't saved!  Neither does it mean that someone who is convinced that they must "take it" isn't saved.  God saves us when we are helpless.  

I ramble.  If this is important to anyone, please chime in!

Brent

[M2]

... I submit that simply receiving the Word does not result in salvation.  Also, it doesn't say anywhere that we must accept Him,  however, it does say that He has accepted us!

I submit that confession, repentance, and calling upon The Lord is fruit, or evidence of salvation, and not what brings it about.  BTW, I am still NOT a Calvinist.

The reason I am bringing this up----and there is so much more to say about this----is that I hope to talk about the type of theology we were taught under George, and root out the various aspects of it that will come back to trouble us.  

If we start at the beginning, then we can "  As you have therefore  received  Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him, "

I think it is important to get the beginning right, so we can continue on the right path.  The Galatians started right, but became confused, thinking that they could be "better" Christians if they did certain things that seemed to from The Word.  In the same way,  many of us struggle as a result of not really understanding salvation and grace from the get go.
...

Michael Coren was invited to speak at our church. He is a journalist and a gifted speaker. He has been a Christian for 8 years now. He was watching TV late one night and someone was interviewing a Christian minister (or something). He says he fell asleep on the couch and when he woke up the next morning he knew that he was saved. Maybe this ties in with what you are saying here. But I am curious to know 'what brings about our salvation'.

Marcia