"Transformations" Video

[jackhutchinson]

A few years ago we watched the "Transformations II" video during a night of prayer in SLO (the leadership in Fullerton had shown the video down in So Cal as well). To find out more about the video you can go to:  http://www.transformnations.com/videos/vsg2400.asp

In one part the video shows how God's Spirit transformed a community in the Eastern Arctic Region of Canada.  During a youth rally meeting in a church a loud roaring sound was heard that at first many people thought was a jet engine (and jets don't land anywhere near that place).  The worship band stopped playing and the sound technician cut the power from the sound system.  However, the tape recorder kept recording and even picked up the roaring sound.  The scene that followed looked like something out of the book of Acts.  People began repenting of their sins and worshipping God.  A revival followed that transformed the entire region.  I believe this video to be factual based on the fact that the actor Dean Jones did some of the narration (I know that dates me).  From what I know about him I highly doubt he would be a part of a fraudulent project.  For those who may not know, Dean Jones gave up his lucrative career with Disney after he got saved (in the 70's) because he believed that was what God wanted.

The reason I bring it up is this:  At the time I was disturbed by the contradiction beween the events depicted in the video and our doctrine regarding music in worship.  We thought that using musical instruments would detract from God's presence during the meetings, yet here in this video (endorsed by the SLO and Fullerton leadership) God's presence was CLEARLY and powerfully experienced by these Christians who were rocking out for Jesus!  The closest thing we experienced to that roaring sound in our meetings was the sound of snoring!

Note:  The impressive thing about the meeting was not the roaring sound, but the revival that God brought through that meeting (and we experienced neither the roaring or growth).

I knew back then that either our doctrine in that area was off or the video was a fraud.  At the time I chose simply not to think about that contradiction because I just couldn't bear the thought of assembly doctrine being wrong.

For those who are still in the assemblies (especially if you saw that video), how do you reconcile the two?  Either the assembly perspective was wrong (and musical instruments don't detract from God's presence) or the video is a fraud.  Which is it?

Jack

[sfortescue]

Either the assembly perspective was wrong (and musical instruments don't detract from God's presence) or the video is a fraud.

... or both, if you want to be logically precise.

[d3z]

At various times, in the assembly, we got asked "why do you do that" kinds of questions.  Why do they wear headcoverings, why are there no instruments.

The lack of instruments is one that I never would answer for people, and usually just tell people it was our preference.  Oddly enough, that didn't bother people much.

I've only been able to get one of two arguments out of people as to why there are no instruments.  One is the Brethren teaching: the whole idea that we need to try as hard as we can to meet just like they did in acts.  The other  is Eph 5:19, which sounds nice, but has nothing to do with whether or not there are instruments during the meetings.

I've heard some very strained arguments about how making melody in our hearts means there can't be instruments.

One great accusation against worship bands was that people came more for entertainment than worship.  We somehow had the idea that worship had to just be bringing something "to the Lord", and not only shouldn't we be involving our emotions, we need to try and make it as unpleasant as possible for ourselves.

Interestingly, the different assemblies had different qualities of singing.  Being in a place with very little musical talent always made the singing interesting.  Was was more interesting was the lack of discernment: we tried many times to do singing outreaches.  Yes, having a group of tone-deaf people stand up and sing will draw a crowd, but, I think the outreach might be more effective if they were gathering for more reason than trying to figure out what was that awful sound.

Dave

[jackhutchinson]

Wait, Dave.  You mean to tell me that we in SLO weren't the only ones who sounded horrible when we sang?  I had no idea!  I was so sure we were bringing people at the farmers market to tears with our rousing rendition of "Come Ye Sinners, Poor and Wretched" (then again, maybe those were tears on their cheeks)

Jack

[jackhutchinson]

The reason I brought this up was not to discuss the issue of musical instruments (though that in itself is a worthwhile discussion), but to pose the question:  How do current assembly participants reconcile the "Transformations II" video (that the leaders endorsed) with assembly doctrine?

Just something to think about.

Jack

[M2]

The reason I brought this up was not to discuss the issue of musical instruments (though that in itself is a worthwhile discussion), but to pose the question:  How do current assembly participants reconcile the "Transformations II" video (that the leaders endorsed) with assembly doctrine?

Just something to think about.

Jack

Jack,

We watched the video too (but we were not influenced by GG ). Firstly, the video was recommended by Big-name brothers, so we watched it. Secondly, whenever we read or watched stuff like that we always had the disclaimer: such-and-such was different than the way we do it, but we know better (something like that). Thirdly, I think the object in watching the video was to show us how prayer can make a difference, hence we watched it at our night's of prayer meetings.

Hope that helps.
Lord bless,
Marcia

[d3z]

Secondly, whenever we read or watched stuff like that we always had the disclaimer: such-and-such was different than the way we do it, but we know better (something like that).

We did similar things when using the Left Behind videos for outreaches.  Whoever preached the gospel aftward would always preface with some statement about how this was "Hollywood", just to justify that he completely disagreed with the movie's theology.

They were going to show the second movie, until I explained a bit about that copyright thing.  The royalties were a bit steep for the assembly.  I guess not enough money would have gone to GG if they spent it on outreach.

Dave

[jackhutchinson]

Marcia,

We had that same caveat too.  However, this video is not intended to be viewed as a fictional story like other videos.  It claims that God really did powerfully display His presence at that meeting and began a revival there.  So it really is not a matter of the doctrine of the video's producers, but whether their claims are true.  If so, then our assembly perspective wasn't accurate.  If God is offended by music in worship meetings, then how could he have started a revival there?  Apparently He doesn't make an issue of musical instruments like we thought.  If God didn't actually visit that meeting then why did the leaders recommend a video that makes false claims?

We put soooooooo much emphasis on doing things juuuuuuust right to accomodate God's presence, and yet instead of growth and revival, we experienced corruption, stagnation, God's rebuke and in many cases, dissolution.

Perhaps the 'heavenly vision' was not as scriptural as we were led to believe .  We put God in a box and He destroyed it.

Jack

[al Hartman]

Jack and All,

     The initial question of this thread, regarding the assembly's confirmation of God's moving in a place where musical instruments were used in services, is pretty easily explained:

     The first GG assembly began during the winding down of the "Jesus Movement," a period of Christian communes and hippiedom, if you will.  There was a diversity of lifestyles and personalities that defies simple description.  For example, one couple drove to worship in an old Cadillac hearse, in which they lived at this beach or that, as they were "led."
     Naturally, there were a number of guitars, flutes, etc. among the interested parties, so GG set immediately to teaching as to why the instruments didn't belong in the meetings.  Needless to say, those who didn't accept the teaching didn't stick around.  Music became just one of many categories in which we were more learned than all those around us.

     Explaining God's moving in a place that played music was no different than explaining His moving anywhere else.  God met with, spoke to and blessed those who were hungry for Him.  He would meet them wherever they were in their Christian journey.  Spirituality would always increase after God did something in their midst.  If the people would respond to God's urgings, He would lead them deeper, and no doubt in a year or two we would be viewing a second video in which music would no longer be played among those "deeper" saints.

     There was a logical way around any obstruction-- an explanation for everything.  And all would accept it who knew what was good for them.

al

[M2]

Jack,

I believe it goes something like this:
Each one is walking in the light that they have. Either God has not yet enlightened them on that particular issue, or God has and they weren't listening. However we believe that God is still working despite their/our idiotsynchrysies (sp??). Since they prayed fervently for revival, God answered their prayers.
I guess we weren't praying fervently enough. It was all about numbers.

The LBs were called Leading Brothers for a good reason. They were/are apt at leading statements and leading questions. The result being that we got distracted from some things that were obvious, and sidetracked to what they wanted us to get out of the video. Did you have a time of 'discussion' after watching it?

Someone made this comment about assembly sympathizers: "I really don't think a lot of people - especially those that were still 'in' when the GG structure collapsed - have turned their brains on yet.  The auto pilot still flies their little engines.  So feel sorry for them, I think I do.  They're not bad people, just basically brain dead."
They have turned their 'critical thinking' off.  They are deceived.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[mithrandir]

I'll chip in my two cents here.  I do think that some worship bands detract from genuine worship.  Just listen to some of them and you'll know instantly what I mean.  I also prefer worship music that is more folk (or even classically) flavored.  Christian pop (or C-pop, as it is called by some) is just not my bowl of soup.  However, I don't dare to condemn things just because they don't suit my taste, especially when the Bible doesn't condemn them.

I actually believe that it is impossible to use the New Testament as a proof text to forbid musical instruments in worship.  In Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3, where Paul talks about "singing and making melody", the word translated "singing" is the Greek word psallo.  Psallo literally means, "to pluck", "to twitch", "to strike".  These all speak of things done to the strings of a musical instrument!  The Rotherham translation of these passages therefore reads, "striking the strings."  Also, Rotherham translates Romans 15:9 as "...Therefore I will give praise to Thee among the Gentiles, and I will strike the strings to Thy name."  Kinda blows the Brethren position out of the water.

What we learned in the Assemblies was how to elevate the personal preferences of mere men to the same level as holy writ, while neglecting justice, mercy and faithfulness.  Our excuse was, "We have more light than others."  I think Scripture calls this, "straining at gnats while swallowing camels"...

mithrandir