Seeing things differently

[Nancy Newswander]

Verne,

I'm not sure if you understand.  Reading the word or hearing it being read - those verses all trigger flashbacks to the assembly.  While in the assembly (27 years for me) I read the Bible and/or heard the word being preached, and then applied it to my life in the context of what George and the leadership asserted that those verses meant.  If you applied it differently, then you were "set straight" about what the Bible was really saying.  

So now, reading the Bible (or hearing it being read) has a numbing effect on me personally.  And in the same way, when different ones on this BB are so dogmatic (and that means you, too, Verne) about what they consider to be obvious judgements or discernments, I become totally tuned out.  Things just weren't what we believed them to be in the assembly, which now causes me to question just about everything.  Give us some time - the Lord cares and is not mocking us.

[Recovering Saint]

Hi

Here is a possible answer to recovering the joy of reading the bible. I know for me I hear George's take on the bible when I try to delve into it myself. But talking to others who never knew George I find it refreshing to hear what they have to say about familiar passages that "I knew" according to George could only mean this and they have another way of seeing it and it helps me get out of the box.

I have started going to a course called Alpha. It is just what the doctor ordered. I have really enjoyed the course because it confirms or challenges the teachings I have heard for so long but in an independent setting with no pressure to agree with everyone. We are all told that we should express our opinions for discussion and NO ONE CAN SHOOT ANYBODY'S OPINION DOWN.

Alpha
 
What is the meaning of life? What happens when we die? What relevance does Jesus have for our lives? How do we deal with guilt?

If you would like to explore questions like these, then Alpha is for you!

What is ALPHA?

A nyone interested in finding out more about the Christian faith.
Adults of all ages are welcome.

L earning and laughter. It is possible to learn about the Christian
faith and have fun at the same time.

P eople meeting together. An opportunity to get to know others
and to make new friends.

H elping one another. The small groups give you a chance to
discuss issues raised during the talks.

A sk anything. Alpha is a place where no question is seen as
too simple or too hostile.


Who is ALPHA for?
 
Alpha is for everyone! It is especially geared to:

People interested in investigating Christianity
Newcomers to the church
New Christians
Christians who want to brush up on the basics
What happens at ALPHA?
There is a series of talks on topics such as:

Who Is Jesus?
Why Did Jesus Die?
Why and How Should I Read the Bible?
Why and How Do I Pray?
What About the Holy Spirit?
How Can I Overcome Evil?
Why and How Should I Tell Others?
Does God Heal Today?
What About the Church?

After each talk there is a small-group time for everyone to discuss any questions or issues they have. This gives an opportunity to get to know each other and to learn together.

http://www.alphausa.org/

http://www.alphacanada.org/

[mithrandir]

I have heard the leadership in the locale I came from are "hurt" and that my "anger" is what prevents them from contacting and "making right" their involvement in my life and my family's life.

I suggest to the leaders and ex-leaders, not only in the San Fernando Valley and everywhere else, that they had better just face the anger and go to the people they have wronged, with words like this: "When we were leaders in what has now been proven to be a cult, we abused our authority and rode roughshod over God's people.  I know that I did (fill in the blanks) to you personally, and I want to apologize.  If there's anything I did that I haven't mentioned, please let me know.  And if there's anything I can do to make up for my mistreatment of you, please let me know that too."  If the anger of the flock is keeping the false shepherds from making things right, they haven't seen anything yet.  Wait till they face the anger of God.

I am dealing with my family's fragile psyches (each child is suffering in numerous ways) and the road to recovery will be a long one.  These children need to be apologized to (particularly my oldest daughter who suffered the most abuse).  I lay squarely at the leadership's (and particularly one LB's wife) the state of my children's spiritual lives.  These people represented Christ to my children.  Their heavy handed, guilt ridden, controlling, manipulative tactics have tainted my children's view of Christ and Christianity.  My oldest daughter has nightmares nightly which makes it difficult to sleep (she is soooooo aftraid to go to sleep) and she is needing counseling to reprogram her thinking (from having been brainwashed her whole life).

One group in particular that I have focused on since I've left has been the children of ex-assembly people.  I have called children on the phone and talked to them in person, apologizing for my heavy-handed treatment of them as a doorkeeper and a teacher in the children's ministry.  It is easy to see why so many of them are turned off to the Bible and spiritual things - for the Geftakys groups made God out to be a harsh, cruel taskmaster.

Clarence Thompson

[delila]

Dear Kimberly,
   First, my condolences about your children.  Watching them suffer must be
hard to tolerate.  I am so thankful that I had both my children after I left the assembly.
I thought about your message all day, scribble down some thoughts and fought tears.
There are so many aspects to that systematic hell we called ‘the assembly’ that I
wonder how long it will take to shed all the sorrow.  BTW (Mark) I think what we
experience runs a lot deeper than cynicism - really, saints (sound of GG clearing his
throat).  Cynics often use their pessimistic attitudes as excuses for not doing their part
to make the world a better place by starting at home.  Neither Mark C nor anyone can
accuse us of that, can they? (BTW: love you Mark.)

   Secondly, I wonder how many of us have seriously considered a law suit?  I’m
serious.  Hear me out.  This guy (who claims to be a Christian) burnt my house down
last fall.  The police are still eating donuts and discussing the situation.  I’ll be happy
to see him held accountable for turning my house into ashes.  But here, Kimberly, you
had much more than a burning house at the hands of these ‘Christians’.  And here,
you are expected to forget.
   I remember being ‘dealt with’ over stupid little things, questioning directions
over household issues that were simply unclear and being punished for not being able
to read minds.  I remember praying in my bedroom under a plaque on the wall that
read “Great peace have they who love they law and nothing shall offend them.” And I
remember praying, Oh Lord, don’t let me be offended.  I love Thy law.  So now I
consider: if God has a law yet, what is it?  Don’t miss a meeting?  The children shall
not venture off the mat or make a sound in the meeting?  If God has a law yet, is it not
simply: love?  And so, at what exactly are these people offended?  Was love shown?
No?  Cruelty in the Name of God instead?  Then, according to God’s law, God should
be offended then!
   What you do to the least of these (again, this comes from my circulation, I was
never good at numbers) you do to God as well.  So what offends these leading
brothers and sisters exactly?  They refuse the humiliation that comes from being
exposed, the same humiliation they heaped on our heads.  Was that the motivating
force behind the crucifixion?  Christ had done nothing wrong, so said Pilate, but he
offended some very important people, just as Kimberly does when she speaks the
truth about how the little ones were trodden by the leaders of the people.
   My voice on this BB is offensive to many, especially to those who sneak on to
read and tattle tale but never post. I’m sorry that they chose to be offended.  I’m sorry
that they choose instead to be loyal to the system that so much offends God.  They
love their positions, the idea of their positions.  Would they love to replace George in
their assemblies as local G&B?  
   Dear Kimberly, I wonder when Jesus prayed and wept, did he weep for these
leaders and their wounded reputations?  I think instead Kimberly, He wept for you
and your children.  I know I do.
   And another thing: you rained on their parade.  That’s what picks them the
most.  In all predictability - the assembly mind - even post assembly - even so.  They
think they’re ‘still faithful’ to the ‘testimony’ (That GG created).  At least ‘they’
didn’t desert the assembly/Lord ( idol as Brent has well pointed out).  They didn’t
leave in humiliation as many of us did, with rumors circulating in the shock waves.
   Again I say it: they’re in love with their own reputations, shocked and
offended by anything that calls their reputations into questions.  So try not to consider
their ridiculous claims too much.  Vanity dies a long, slow death.  And ‘spiritual’
vanity is probably the hardest to kill.  Notice George is still leading who will follow.
Mental illness, I think.  It must be an awfully hard thing to get used to - this not being
the one who is bowed to anymore.  Probably why Hitler killed himself.  They’re so
used to being the ones doling out punishment.  They don’t know what it means to tell
the truth anymore.  They are used to taking that scripture (those sins you forgive are
forgiven, those sins you do not forgive are not forgiven) and twisting it for their own
good.  Their consciences are totally screwed, Kimberly, you won’t get so much as a
“If I’ve offended you...” from them.  That’s why they wait for YOUR repentance: out
of habit.  Act now, supplies are running out...Hey girl, ‘you might as well be walking
on the sun.’
   So what now?  Healing.  You can’t tell a wound how to heal.  If I were there,
I’d hug you.  We’d take our kids out to do something they’d love.  My kids love to
sing and dance and play in the water.  A million episodes of Sponge Bob Square Pants
can’t erase the abuse of the past.  What can?  God knows.  But please, if I may,
consider yourself hugged.

Love,
Delila

[jloadams]

Delila,
Why is it that I end up crying at the reading of almost every one of your posts?
Part of it is that your suffering makes my heart break.  Part of it is that I know that there are so many others who suffered as much.  And of course, there's the way you put to words so much of what many of just don't know how to express...or maybe just don't have the guts to express.
Then you go and write this beautiful letter to Kimberly and make me cry at the compassion expressed.
I know you had considered not contributing to the BB at one time.  I hope you've put that thought out of your mind.  I haven't really posted anything much, but reading this board on an almost daily basis has been incredible therapy for me.  It's the contributions of people like you and so many others, that help to heal the rest of us.
Thank you.
Janet

[al Hartman]

    ...I haven't really posted anything much, but reading this board on an almost daily basis has been incredible therapy for me.  It's the contributions of people like you and so many others, that help to heal the rest of us.
Thank you.
Janet

     ...and the contributions of you, Janet, and others who post seldom but genuinely, also help to heal and encourage  the rest of us.  Don't think for a minute that the more frequent and prolific posters have moved beyond the pain you feel.  Some of us may have a lot to say, and some of us may just think we have a lot to say, but none of us has arrived.

     I, for one, am often more deeply touched by the posts of struggling sisters than by those of learned brothers.  I won't name names, because I'd surely leave someone out accidentally & regret it later, but I have been greatly encouraged, sometimes shamed and often instructed by the posts of those who speak neither profoundly nor often, but who from the heart project the love and wisdom of Christ.

     Whoever you may be who reads here, please feel free to post as little and as seldom as makes you comfortable.  But, please, when the urge to post is present, don't withdraw from it.  There are those here who may only respond to what you have to say.  I feel there's a good chance I may be one of them...

Thank you, and God bless,
al

[delila]

Dear Janet:

There was a Janet once in Ottawa.  I'm trying hard to remember her last name but it's not comming to me.  She left, destroyed b/c she was unable to measure up.  I would love to hear your story.

BTW: thanks for saying what you wrote.  It means a lot.
Love,

Delila

[Kimberley Tobin]

Delila:

Wow!  What a touching response.  I am blown away by your compassion and reaching out to me through this bb.  I have only shared a razor thin glimpse of the devastation in my children's lives that has been as a direct result from our involvement in the assembly.  I have done this to protect my kids.  I actually wish I could relate all that my children are going through in order to reveal the tragedy of being involved in the assembly.  I am actively getting help for my children and my prayer is that they will come out of this stronger and more healthy as a result.

A lawsuit?  Oh yeah, I've thought about it.  My husband and I decided that the emotional toll it would take on our family just simply wasn't worth it.  God has a better way of dealing with people.  

I want to say you haven't offended anyone yet.  The anonymous voyeurs who have been offended don't count.  You are a welcome breath of fresh air.

I absolutely consider myself hugged and back at cha.    As my oldest daughter loves to type, "muah"

Love ya,

Kimberley

[delila]

Yes, God has his ways of dealing with people.  He's been most kind to me:
-letting me learn from my own mistakes
-giving me the autonomy to choose, even unwisely
-providing all I need
-giving me beautiful children who teach me daily about patience, kindness, truth, love, comfort etc.
-providing professionals to help me sort out the tangled web of deceit taught by the assembly
-giving me this bb as a means of healing
-providing people like you who are so willing to share their pain, validating my own experience, being honest.

the list goes on.

That being said, I don't know how much I trust God to fully deal with others in his own time.  I play my part too, wimp that I am.  The book I sent off to a publisher on Monday is one small way I hope to expose the great wrong that's been done.  Let's see if they sue me.  I hear a guy named Harry Potter sued the author of the Harry Potter series for using his name.  We'll see what the saints in Ottawa do. Maybe I should get a lawyer.

Love ya back!

Delila

[delila]

 
It is difficult to see what is outside of our experience.  What takes a 'real' man or woman is to admit that others have the right to their own feelings about their own experiences, regardless of how those feelings differ from ours.
 
Al,  I tease you repeatedly for being like maples syrup, but alas, I see where you're coming from and your syrup too has hit the spot with me on many occassions.  Took me a while to see you were for real.

 
So I'm thinkin' here Al, I'm thinkin' that's what GRACE is.  Not being quick to write someone else's opinion off as 'bitter' or 'wrong' just b/c it is very different from your own.  Many in Ottawa and some in Calgary and Estevan, I'm sure would love to think of themselves at yet being 'faithful' to the heavenly vision, regardless of the fact that they have not yet separated that 'vision' from the horrors of what George taught.  Of course, they yet claim: "WE were never influenced much by George" or, as I heard from one LB in Estevan, "Tim's ministry really spoke to me..." which of course, bothers me b/c they haven't yet sorted good speaking from the more devastating hooks and dangers of that ministry.  Still, what is my response to them?  I loved Bernie and Dianna.  I strove to be like Nancy - to measure up to her impossible standard.  I respected Armand, regardless of the fact that he didn't respect me and my ability to make choices for myself.  But if I am learning anything about God it is this:
 
He sees their hearts.  He knows what they experienced/ experience and how humiliating it must be to have their unfinished business laundered along with our pain here.  I hope God's kindness too leads them to repentance as His kindness has caused me to see that He is good.  

Delila

[Gordon]

Delila:

I don't know you, but I was in the SLO assembly, and I want to say I see a great woman of strength in you.

I commend and laud you for being of the same cloth of a Abagail: in the midst of difficult circumstances an inner strength that shines now. I know whatever things that have taken place for all of us, in our moments, the Lord looks upon us like David looks upon Abagail and sees something of great worth. David married Abagail after he judged Abagail's fool of a husband. The reason why David married her is very much like what Christ sees in the church -- or what I would say in us: We are worthy in Him to be his bride. His longing, his concern is for you, me and everyone who calls on his name.

I say to one, and I say to all 2004 will be a year where God will make breakthroughs, and new places for us if we take a hold of Him! God bless you all!!!

[M2]

Yes, God has his ways of dealing with people.  He's been most kind to me:
-letting me learn from my own mistakes
-giving me the autonomy to choose, even unwisely
-providing all I need
-giving me beautiful children who teach me daily about patience, kindness, truth, love, comfort etc.
-providing professionals to help me sort out the tangled web of deceit taught by the assembly
-giving me this bb as a means of healing
-providing people like you who are so willing to share their pain, validating my own experience, being honest.

the list goes on.

That being said, I don't know how much I trust God to fully deal with others in his own time.  I play my part too, wimp that I am.  The book I sent off to a publisher on Monday is one small way I hope to expose the great wrong that's been done.  Let's see if they sue me.  I hear a guy named Harry Potter sued the author of the Harry Potter series for using his name.  We'll see what the saints in Ottawa do. Maybe I should get a lawyer.

Love ya back!

Delila

Delila,

Do you mean that they might sue you for using their names?
Anyway, if it does come to that, I'll be an eyewitness in your defense.
I want a copy of your book hot off the press.

You are so right about how God works with us.  He did not forget the suffering and injustices you suffered.  You have every right to proclaim the ugly truth and don't be surprised if assembly-sympathizers start labelling you as a gossip, an evil speaker, or even as disgruntled.  Now, if they had truly repented things might have been different.  But I believe (since they won't tell me) that they are hoping that this will all die down and just go away so that they can continue on blissfully in their lifestyle of false holiness.  Someone predicted that the BB would only last till the end of last summer.  Wishful thinking on their part, don't you think??

Much love and God bless,
Marcia

[jackhutchinson]

Someone predicted that the BB would only last till the end of last summer.  Wishful thinking on their part, don't you think??

Wishful indeed.  I've noticed we've seen a lot more traffic here over the last month or so.  Someone out there is being set free by the free-flowing information that is not controlled/distorted by assembly leaders.

Jack

[delila]

 
That's the smile.  Everything's fine.  Denial.  Denial.

Paraphrase:
 'Listen sister, you always knew love.  Don't tell me that now that you've left the assembly, you've found it.  That can't be'  Bernie Cossette, Calgary

Nope.  It ain't goin' away, is it?  It's still as true as it always was.  A mirror held up.  Can you see yourself?  Claim your baggage here.  

And you will know the truth.  And the truth will make you free.

Delila

[delila]

Hey Marcia!

Long time no talk.  Yup.  I think they might be a little cross with me
Donno why.

Anyhoo, I'm going to say this:  

I did phone and try to talk to Nancy a couple times.  She was busy, I think, a little scared of me.  She 'really had to go right now' if you know what I mean.  It is much easier to maintain your own version of things if you just don't discuss the issues with those you've stepped on.

That scripture about people having their consciences seared keeps popping up with me.  And, from Shakespeare "That a man can smile and smile and smile and yet be a villian".  Appearances have to be kept up in order for image and reputation to be maintained and that 'assembly smile' and sweet sweet tone used for reaching out to the 'unsaved' - here in quotes b/c the reacher wrongfully thinks he/she is out of the woods - are excellent acting, really.

And, I give them this: excellent acting, folks.  Many still believe you.  But, how long can you believe yourself?  That seared conscience, like a leaky tea bag has got to be wearing thin.  

As time goes on though Marcia, I'm less angry and more fascinated by the dementia I call the 'assembly mind'.   And yes, I've started reading the bible again.  For what it's worth, I'm camped out in the first chapter of Genisis.  Not planning on turning the page any time soon either.  The spirit of God, moved over the waters of the deep.  Wowzer.  I'm just thinking about that for a few days.

Love ya

Delila