Where is Tim G?

[Uh Oh]

I sometimes wonder where some of these men could have gone if they were mentored by Chuck Smith instead of being controlled by George Geftakys.

No reason Tim couldn't have been another Greg Laurie.

I have to respectfully but vehemently disagree with this post.  We are talking about a guy who got where he was simply because of his last name - he never "paid any dues", so to speak.  You are talking about a guy who for whatever reason was revered and respected who looked the other way while family members were involved in gross sin and in David's case, horribly illegal and immoral acts.  You are also talking about a guy who must be as unintelligent as they come...How he could continue to be involved with this ministry after all that has happened shows that he is either:

A) Phenomenally stupid to think that God had anything to do with "raising up" this "ministry".
B) Possesses a hidden agenda...The "ministry" rebounds, he weasels his way back into leadership and can get back into the habit of supporting himself though this grand scheme.
C) Arrogant enough to think that it really was God's will for him to ever be in any sort of leadership role.
D) all of the above

Also, responding to an earlier post about Tim going through some tough times with the collapse of the assembly, being "blessed with being a good salesman" and rebounding in his "late stage of life" by finding an honorable job via the real estate business.    First, how on earth can anyone feel sorry for him as a result of the assemblies collapse?  This fraudulent scheme fed his pockets quite handsomely for a long, long time.  I liken this  to feeling bad for the CEO of Enron after its collapse.  As far as his real estate business goes - what else really is he qualified to do?  Who outside of someone doing him a favor would hire him???

Oh, and as for "the blessed with being a good salesman"...I would rephrase this as Tim Geftakys is a just a good bull sh###er.

[M2]

I will add my .05 to this discussion.

I do feel sorry for all ex-and-present-assemblyites.  Yes, it is sad that TimG has to start off a career late in life, and that his wife has cancer.  Maybe he is getting a little of his own medicine now when one considers how many he counselled re. careers vs. commitment to the assembly.  TimG was very influenced by his dad.  TomM mentioned one incident where, very early on, his dad compelled him to apologize for his choice to watch a game rather than consider the 'testimony'.  Tim may have preached against the 7th day, but he did state his leaning towards the 'super human' Christ in Feb 2002.  Also when Claude asked him, in Feb 2002, about another passage that GG and Claude disagreed on, Tim was in line with his dad and told Claude that Claude was not seeing it correctly.  This does make suspect some of his other ministry as well.  Claude and I would excuse him with "he's very influenced by his dad".

However, those events were before GG's excomm...
Subsequent to that I know of a few incidents that make Tim's ministry suspect:
1.  When asked about the DG situation, Tim said that he had talked to his dad and his dad told him to stay out of it, and that it was a local (SLO) problem.  BTW the Ottawa leaders took the same stand on another issue after GG's excomm... with re. to a problem with a brother that we knew but was now in another assembly.  Ottawa was mirroring GG's counsel, and Tim was influenced by his dad.
2.  Tim told MarkM that they did not need to apologize to the Irons for driving them 'out of fellowship'.
3.  Tim has not made any public statement to the effect that he was wrong, and that the ministry was tainted etc. etc.
4.  Tim does not see the 'evil' of the assembly and continues actively involved with keeping the 'testimony' going in Fullerton, Placentia, WestLA and ??

Marcia

[mithrandir]

Dave,

I sometimes wonder where some of these men could have gone if they were mentored by Chuck Smith instead of being controlled by George Geftakys.

No reason Tim couldn't have been another Greg Laurie.
Dan Notti could easily have been another Phillip Yancey.
Jim Hayman could have flourished in Christian broadcasting.

Hopefully, the lesson learned is that we should seek to affirm the giftedness of younger Christians and released them to minister as God has designed them.

-Dave

I have to strongly disagree with some of your post, Dave.  Dan Notti was worthless as a spiritual leader.  Philip Yancey has a genuine care for others, but Dan only cares for those who provide him with emotional support.  He is the king of whiners.  In fact, none of the men who were recognized as spiritual leaders in Fullerton or Placentia was worth more than a used drink of water.  They were all worthless posers.  As I continue to reflect on the abundant evidence of their incompetence, I am ashamed that I was ever taken in by them.

Clarence Thompson

[shinchy]

In fact, none of the men who were recognized as spiritual leaders in Fullerton or Placentia was worth more than a used drink of water.

Used drink of water--that's a pretty strong way of putting it but effective.

[outdeep]

I think some of you may be missing the point of my post.  I am not saying that these men could or should fill these shoes now (Laurie, Yancy, etc.).

My point is that if, when they were young, they had a good mentor in their lives such as Chuck Smith who modeled good character and taught them proper ministry, they could have been used greatly by God.  Dan can write well without much effort.  Tim is a persuasive speaker.  Jim is a good orator.  If they were set on the right track by godly influence when they were 17 or 18, there is no reason things couldn't have been different.

[Nancy Newswander]

Dave,

I agree with what you are saying.  Even now, some have posted on this BB that these men are beyond hope.  I strongly disagree.   ALL OF US bought into warped thinking.  Yet, we all believe that the Lord is recovering us and that we have hope that He will use our experiences to make us stronger and effective even at this late date.  The same goes for these men.  

[al Hartman]

Dave,

I agree with what you are saying.  Even now, some have posted on this BB that these men are beyond hope.  I strongly disagree.   ALL OF US bought into warped thinking.  Yet, we all believe that the Lord is recovering us and that we have hope that He will use our experiences to make us stronger and effective even at this late date.  The same goes for these men.  

     Amen!
     It is crucial to make a distinction between what we ourselves would call a deserved and righteous judgment; what we may actually anticipate from God, and what we risk saying is impossible for God.
     God may agree with our assessments.  But He also may not.  And nothing is impossible with Him!

al

[mithrandir]

Point taken, Dave.  But now, with water under bridges and spilled milk all over the floor, the thing that will determine the rest of their lives is whether or not they repent.  And I mean a full and honest repentance.

Please pardon my anger.  Some days I am able to get through without thinking about these men.  But there are some days...

Clarence Thompson

[Uh Oh]

Is there any new news on the status of the Fullerton Cult?  Has Tim Geftakys finnagled his way back to a position of leadership yet?  If not, who are the people who have taken over?

[psalm51]

I just had a thought. Today's a big day. For the first time in years, some of the old leadership may even have to give an accounting to the IRS with W-2's and everything.  

[moonflower2]

I just had a thought. Today's a big day. For the first time in years, some of the old leadership may even have to give an accounting to the IRS with W-2's and everything.  

 
Does anyone know how the IRS views someone who just started paying taxes after years of non-payment? Do they investigate someone like that?

[Eulaha L. Long]

What kind of cancer does Ginger G. have?

[aragorn]

I just had a thought. Today's a big day. For the first time in years, some of the old leadership may even have to give an accounting to the IRS with W-2's and everything.  

 
Does anyone know how the IRS views someone who just started paying taxes after years of non-payment? Do they investigate someone like that?

My impression is that it is fairly likely that someone who hasn't paid taxes in a number of years will trigger a red flag for the IRS upon filing a return with regular wages.  If this flag gets triggered they will certainly want to ask questions about what has been going on since the last time they filed.  I think anyone in this situation would be wise to consult a tax advisor or one of those tax payer advocate firms you hear advertised on the radio.

[areyougettingit]

<My impression is that it is fairly likely that someone who hasn't paid taxes in a number of years will trigger a red flag for the IRS upon filing a return with regular wages.  If this flag gets triggered they will certainly want to ask questions about what has been going on since the last time they filed. > David Kennedy

   I am sure there are at least some of you out there who have seen or heard of situations where someone had multiple SSNs or had none. Who knows what the case may be with this man. If one has multiple SSNs it is possible to file a return that tells the regular wages (without involving the cult's income) and not file under the other SSN(s). One can be undetected if (s)he has no SSN or if his/her income was never reported by the employer (or by him/herself if self-employed). If someone is (or has been) listed as a dependent on someone else's tax return they could very well miss being detected for anything unusual.

   What kind of economic entity the Assembly was? Association? Fund? DBA? LTD? Would you agree that there were business activities taken place? Did the Assembly have a FEDERAL TAX ID number? I cannot remember ever witnessing anything like that on paper. Would GG need to file a business return at all for activities within the Assembly or would the Assembly be exempt from filing? Any expert idea on this?

   I myself would not be surprised if GG never showed up in the IRS system. At least if he had a vision 30 years ago - thinking if he is careful enough no one would ever have any clue on what is going on re: financial exploit of cult members - he may have been avoiding paying taxes his whole life. If he did not have a "Holy" vision of beating the IRS system way back when it is possible he may have just dropped the ball half way between start-up and stepping over to “deadland” had he filed his taxes the first time or the first time after some years of no activity. We can only hope that the truth will come out and we may see the time when these people will be held accountable for what they have done or have not done in the past.

   Can someone tell me a good estimate on how much per year GG and his inner circle “stole” from us saints?

areyougettingit

[Arthur]

  What kind of economic entity the Assembly was? Association? Fund? DBA? LTD?

"Nonexistent", as far as the government knows, wasn't it?   Just a group of friends pooling our non-taxable, non-trackable funds to buy something we all agreed was worthwhile.

Sounds kinda like a lottery pool.  That's not taxed either, until someone wins.  (Of course all the money goes to the government anyways to buy the lottery tickets.)