"The Elect Obtained it, the Rest Were Hardened"

[summer007]

Marcia, I know you wer'nt looking for a pat answer. I know very little about the dying church of Sardis, perhaps Verne, Tom, H or Brent knows something to take it to the deeper level of theological discussion. I just happened to be o/l at the time you posted and thought of those verses. I personally don't think the elect can lose their salvation. If your not elect and pretend to be then who you are comes out in the end.(or out in the wash so to speak) Faith working by love is maybe where your confusing working for salvation.  Summer. 

[vernecarty]

Rev 3:5 'He who overcomes shall thus be clothed in white garments; and I will not erase his name from the book of life, and I will confess his name before My Father, and before His angels.'

Verses like this would seem to indicate that the elect could lose it too, unless they overcome.  Any thoughts on the matter??

Marcia

One of the most elementary prinicples of Biblical hermenuetics is found in 1 Peter 2:20. Darby I think has the correct sense that you must allow Scripture to interpret itself. Since Scripture is clearly not self-contradictory, to allow an interpretation in one portion of Scipture, that contradicts what is clearly taught in another portion of Scirpture, is to misinterpret Scripture. This is fundamental Marcia.
Since the security of the believer is so clearly taught in so many places in Scripture, use of any Scriptural passage to contradict that teaching should raise immediate questions in most people's minds.
Keeping this principle in mind, go back and look at the question you posed and tell me what you think.
I will say a bit more about specifics later...
Verne
p.s. Invoking the argument that because the epistle addresses the Church at Sardis, this implies that only believers are being addressesd is not Scripturally conclusive. Anyone who has ever attended a church knows better...the church at Thyatira after all had a Jezebel actually teaching in their midst...

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour...

[M2]

Thanks for responding Verne.
My understanding is that only believers names get written in the book of life.  The verse indicates the possiblity of erasure conditional on overcoming.
I cannot remember if we have already discussed this on this forum, so forgive me for re-hashing.

God bless,
Marcia

[vernecarty]

Thanks for responding Verne.
My understanding is that only believers names get written in the book of life.  The verse indicates the possiblity of erasure conditional on overcoming.
I cannot remember if we have already discussed this on this forum, so forgive me for re-hashing.

God bless,
Marcia

Most of the NT references (seven of eight) occur in Revelation.
Some theologians do not believe that Christians will be at the great white throne judgment as this is a judgment of life or death, an issue settled on each believers salvation.
Nonetheless, at the great white throne judgment the book of life is to be opened.
Some theologians also assert that none at this judgment will be saved, that is to say, none of their names will be found written in the book of life.
I do not believe that position is warranted by anything given to us in the relevant passages.
By the same token, I see nothing in any reference to the book of life that suggests the names contained therein belong exclusively to believers.
What we are told clearly is that the names there were written before the foundation of the world.
We are also told that names may be blotted out, and that a person may loose their part (for editing God's Word) in the book of life.
For those who take the mark of the beast, we are also told their names were never written there to begin with so their destiny was apparently unalterably the lake of fire...

 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.  Rev. 20:15

Sobering no?
Verne

[summer007]

Just a thought..."and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb" rev 12.," I am the door: if any man enter in he shall be SAVED, and shall go in and out and find pasture." john10., also" I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Its clear the BLOOD of the Lamb gives full atonement. It's the un-washed masses that need to be worried, Satan already has them. So he's out as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, as in sending hirelings, wolfs in sheeps clothing, stumblling blocks and the like to trip up the redeemed blood bought purchase of God. Satan knows we cannot be Plucked out of Christs hand, but he can request to harass us (like Job was) or to sift us like wheat, or come as an angel of light. (The spirit I have seen may be  a devil, and the devil hath power to take a pleasing shape...quote unknown) Christs paring words were," be of Good-Cheer I have Over-come the World " john16   Summer. (For a rightous man falls seven times and rises up again. prov24)*

[vernecarty]

Just a thought..."and they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb" rev 12.," I am the door: if any man enter in he shall be SAVED, and shall go in and out and find pasture." john10., also" I give them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." Its clear the BLOOD of the Lamb gives full atonement. It's the un-washed masses that need to be worried, Satan already has them. So he's out as a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour, as in sending hirelings, wolfs in sheeps clothing, stumblling blocks and the like to trip up the redeemed blood bought purchase of God. Satan knows we cannot be Plucked out of Christs hand, but he can request to harass us (like Job was) or to sift us like wheat, or come as an angel of light. (The spirit I have seen may be  a devil, and the devil hath power to take a pleasing shape...quote unknown) Christs paring words were," be of Good-Cheer I have Over-come the World " john16   Summer. (For a rightous man falls seven times and rises up again. prov24)*

Right on Summer.
It is a powerful and effective lie of the enemy of our souls, that we can somehow add to what Christ has accomplished on our behalf by our own efforts.
The many encouragements in God's word to our own diligence notwithstanding, the minute we take our eyes off the fact that it is a finished work we are headed for trouble.
I was preparing to go on an outreach with a team in Kenya a few years back and the brother I was going with told me not to be suprised if we encountered some real darkness.
I remember making some inane comment about how we need to living a holy life to be effective when dealing with this sort of thing and he interrupted me and said:
"That is exactly what the devil wants you to think. We are not trusting in our own righteousness, but in Christ's."

I remember sitting there in stunned silence as all the lights began to go on.
What a blessed relief issued from that brief comment.
I will never forget it.
There are far too many of us who are not at all trusting in Christ's righteousness, but in our own...
Verne

[vernecarty]

Does anybody remember this bluegrass treasure? 


IS MY NAME WRITTEN IN THE BOOK OF LIFE

Is my name written there on those pages bright and fair
Is my name written in the book of life
If you want to be up there then down here you must prepare
And your name must be in the book of life.

Get down on your knees and pray you from sin must turn away
Or your name won't be in the book of life
If you'll turn to Jesus now at His feet just humbly bow
Then your name will be in the book of life.

Don't you know that Christ was sent that from sin you could repent
So your name could be in the book of life
You will have a great surprise if you fail to recognize
That your name must be in the book of life.

Get down on your knees and pray you from sin must turn away
Or your name won't be in the book of life.
Don't be late and don't forget that from sin you must repent
Then your name will be in the book of life.

Is my name written in the book of life?
Verne

[summer007]

Verne, I'm glad your friend set you straight...I would'nt want to walk into darkness in my own rightousness. ouch! Its really a blessing to know Christ paid it all, we really did nothing but recieve the gift(believing). And then of course we make our calling and election sure. I think where most go wrong is the foot of pride, even Paul needed a messenger of satan to buffet him to keep from being exalted. He even said if anyone would have confidence in the flesh it was him re:phil3 a hebrew of hebrews as touching the law a pharisee. So pride walks in and Christ walks out (God resists the proud) and the flesh is at emnity with God so these are our constant battles that wage war against the soul,yet we are always safe in Christ He has Won the War! summer.

[summer007]

I think I remember that Song. Do you remember one that goes something like this..."Swing low,sweet Chariot coming forth to carry me home, swing low, low sweet Chariot comin forth to carry me home....

[vernecarty]

I think I remember that Song. Do you remember one that goes something like this..."Swing low,sweet Chariot coming forth to carry me home, swing low, low sweet Chariot comin forth to carry me home....

This is one of the grandest of the grand old negro "spirituals".
Everybody remembers this one...! 
Verne