George is Innocent

[d3z]

I have several stainless steel screws in my shoulder.  Does that count?

[moonflower2]

However, I think Brent is trying to strike a serious blow to the Assembly's drive to rebuild (no need to continue to refer to it as the 'former Assembly', etc.). Much of the impetus to rebuild is based on the perceived lack of credibility in regards to the accusations against George.

I don't know how effective this proof would be and I doubt that Brent believes it will be the killing blow, but I do know that Brent 1) has some experience in this arena, 2) understands the importance of body blows in a brawl and 3) is in this for the long haul.

Again, there is more at stake with this than just "proving" GG had affairs.

S

Yes! And his alleged sexual liasons are factual evidence of the spirit driving George. It is not a "subjective" experience of someone who was emotionally and spiritually hurt by the abuses of assembly folk.

Moonflower2

[jesusfreak]

Now, I personally disagree with a lot of the personal "comments" stated on that site.  However, I respect these comments as the poster's right to express as per their opinion, and simply exercise my right to not care about them, thusly I don't read them.  If your reason for reading through the site is based on a curiosity of who has been "commented" upon, of course you are going to get quite pissed at what is said, especially when it might be about you.  Be sure to understand why before you berate.

Concerning the issue of "free speech": Free speech not only governs a person's ability to speak their mind on a topic, but it also guarantees others the right to speak out against what the first person said.

Declaring someone as false doesn't go against their freedom of speech, it is just exercising mine (defamation, slander, libel are a different issue, basically one of going too far).

Of course, but doing so would be recognizing the relevance of what they said in the first place.  Ie, that you feel their opinion on a given topic is valuable enough to refute.

I would personally just prefer to ignore these kinds of opinions than to entertain their existence.

--
lucas

[jesusfreak]

I know this guy who celebrates Christmas, has a tatoo, and a pierced eyebrow!

Man, do I feel better than him!  

On another note, why not pierce internal body parts. In this case, we can have the satisfaction of knowing that we did it as a statement, and not just for shock value.

Brent

I dunno, it would be quite shocking to see a stud sticking through a person's midsection......

--
lucas

[editor]

I know this guy who celebrates Christmas, has a tatoo, and a pierced eyebrow!

Man, do I feel better than him!  

On another note, why not pierce internal body parts. In this case, we can have the satisfaction of knowing that we did it as a statement, and not just for shock value.

Brent

I dunno, it would be quite shocking to see a stud sticking through a person's midsection......

--
lucas

I mean totally internal, so it doesn't show.  Then, it demonstrates true committment to art.

Brent

[areyougettingit]

Brent,

   I decided to reply to your post because I do not agree with what you wrote and I do not believe that you believe it either. Just because you cannot prove that GG is guily it does not mean that he is innocent, now does it? It may be just as difficult to prove that he is innocent as it is to prove that he is guilty. And it is not our job to prove him innocent. Would we have a BB if we believed he was innocent?

   Even if we do not have factual evidence that he had sexual relationship with women what we know for a fact is that he is among the ones that are responsible for the deep emotional scars we all have. He is the one that brainwashed us and took away our dreams and goals. In many cases even our identity and freedom down to the very last bite. He was a CULT leader and the Assembly was a CULT.  One characteristics of the CULT is that the leader believes he is God or at least he hears God better that any of us.

   Our agenda should be to make sure people like GG and his followers will NEVER be in power again. Our responsibility here on the BB is to make sure that we make people aware of what is/was going on in the Assembly. Are not we all emotionally hurt by all what happened? Is that what we want for the innocent newcomers to experience and reflect on a year from today?

   Can someone tell me when we are going to file a class action law suit against these people?

areyougettingit

[Scott McCumber]

Brent,

   I decided to reply to your post because I do not agree with what you wrote and I do not believe that you believe it either. Just because you cannot prove that GG is guily it does not mean that he is innocent, now does it? It may be just as difficult to prove that he is innocent as it is to prove that he is guilty. And it is not our job to prove him innocent. Would we have a BB if we believed he was innocent?

   Even if we do not have factual evidence that he had sexual relationship with women what we know for a fact is that he is among the ones that are responsible for the deep emotional scars we all have. He is the one that brainwashed us and took away our dreams and goals. In many cases even our identity and freedom down to the very last bite. He was a CULT leader and the Assembly was a CULT.  One characteristics of the CULT is that the leader believes he is God or at least he hears God better that any of us.

   Our agenda should be to make sure people like GG and his followers will NEVER be in power again. Our responsibility here on the BB is to make sure that we make people aware of what is/was going on in the Assembly. Are not we all emotionally hurt by all what happened? Is that what we want for the innocent newcomers to experience and reflect on a year from today?

   Can someone tell me when we are going to file a class action law suit against these people?

areyougettingit

Who's we? Who are you? What's your agenda? Where have you been the last year?

Far as I can tell Brent has done about 90% of the work to bring down GG's ministry. Far as I know you have done 0%. When are you going to start? When you can sign your name?

On what grounds specifically would you like to file a suit? Are you paying for it to be filed? How much do you have to pitch in?

Areyoufeelinme?

[Oscar]

Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern (along with a couple others)
Honestly I hardly think it worth addressing these people. When I hear these people I feel like Jonah as I’m sure many on the SWTE board do. I think why God?? It would have been better to have died in a whales stomach than to listen and hear this mess from these people..
   One of the best things I think I ever heard God say in the Bible is when he admitted Himself that the people of Nineveh were stupid but that he still cared for their souls.  Anybody remember this (Calvinists lend ear).  God said to Jonah, “And should I not spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than six score thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?” These people were dumbies.
   But, like with Jonah, God continues to use people who would rather be doing something else with their lives to reach the lost and the stupid because God still cares.
   
   I attended a church for a number of years that was always taking special offerings to maintain the ministry. No, the money was not begged for but it was always asked for. At first I was giving every time they said there was a need sometimes without asking God what He wanted me to do. But I thought of course God wants me to give. Also, I saw everybody else giving and I did not want to appear stingy with my money. I asked God why is it that I give when it is asked for and I am not reaping any? The answer was simple. I was giving because man asked of me and not God. Also, because my emotions led my actions and not His Spirit.
   So, for a period of time I had to sit in the pews and pass the offering bucket because God was telling me not to give. Sounds crazy right? I sat there near the same people I had for years and passed the bucket. Seeing some friends give money that had less money than me. I went through the feelings of guilt. Every time I asked God  can I give now? And for a month the answer was no. Then at the end of a month I knew God told me “yes. You can give again but, remember to listen if it is Me asking it of You.”  Some of you may say that that is silly spiritualism. Whatever. We are suppose to be led of God. We are suppose to hear His voice. We are suppose to walk under his direction “to the left, to the right.” Since then I have experienced the blessing of sowing and reaping. This lesson was the purpose of my experience. I could have left there upset with my pastor for asking for money but I knew God had me where he wanted me at that time. God knows the tool to use and the method to produce results. That is if we are moldable.
   When I read comments like Mark C.’s, “What I was concerned about was posting of any links to the "Soaring site", where not only are teachings of the late great Witness Lee proffered , but also those who are expert at rending souls in their malacious jaws!” I am amazed. Do not others judge this tree by its fruit? Or are these vicious slanderings a “new” fruit of the Spirit which I have not heard of? The people on this bulletin board seem to go from under one “ego-maniac (G.G.)” that they complain about on a daily basis to submitting to the ideas of another group of ego-maniacs who want to filter what the others on their precious ABB experience.
   The ABB is exactly what we do not want to see happen in Iraq. The hoards of people being transferred from one legalistic abusive regime to another. But the fact of the matter is in the end the people of Iraq will be led by who they want to be led by. While those that saw the abuse and offered a way of escape can only in the end say that they tried to help them.
   The people on this ABB that are sincere in their search for truth ought “remember” not to dwell on the bondage they experienced in their Egypt experience. But rather they should remember the deliverance and the God who is Mighty to save that split the seas and released them into new territory. And remember the promise God gave concerning their future.   
   I am afraid that if people here do not start thinking for themselves and depending wholeheartedly on God to be able to show them the way into the promised land then, they will find themselves once again surrounded by pyramids. How could this happen?
   It is crucial who the innocents on the ABB are listening to.
Remember in Numbers 13 when Moses sent spies to search out the land of Canaan that God had given to His people.  When the spies came back to the camp they said yes the land is good  BUT, the people are strong that live there and they put fear in the hearts of the children of Israel. Caleb was the one to still the commotion and say “Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome!” When the people heard this it says in Numbers 14 that they cried and they remembered Egypt and the wilderness. Then they started saying “were it not better for us to return into Egypt?” And in verse 4 they said “ Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt”
   God places us in situations that we can walk away from with Him and have learned more about Who He IS. Or we can walk away but stay wandering and seeking out another person to lead us.
   The leader the children of Israel chose to direct their thoughts and actions were people that were giving direction from a point of hurt and fear instead of faith. The children of Israel wished more to speak of the past abuses of their Egyptian slave masters than to focus on their future promise. In the end God said these people that cried and were full of doubt based on their experiences would not see the promised land.
   Who would see the promised land? Caleb. Why? Numbers 14:24- “Because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed Me fully, him will I bring into the land wherein he went; and his seed shall possess it.”
   So, I would encourage the “innocents” of the ABB to take responsibility for and be accountable for their actions that involved them with G.G. ministries. Understanding that there is no condemnation in Christ. Do not heed the messages that spew of pride, hate and hurt from the mouths of the ‘so-called’ wise (Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern to name a few).
But rather in fullness of faith and with the help of the Holy Spirit be led in strength not looking back to the pillars of sand that lie in the past.
   Enter into the land that was promised you.  

Dear Sarahhoffee,

I do not know much about Delilah, but I consider it an honor to be included on your list of bad guys with Mark C. and Verne. If being associated with such men is my worst failing...I'll count myself blessed.

However, it would be nice to know exactly what I am accused of, other than vague accusations about "spewing out hate and hurt".

Would you be so kind as to try to be specific?  Perhaps you could make a brief list of my transgressions?  I must confess I find your long treatise somewhat vague.  In fact, I can't understand it at all!

Perhaps, I am like the Ninevite "dumbies".  Most theologians think that this refers to children, not stupid people.  But then, I do not claim special enlightment from God.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[Scott McCumber]

Dear Sarahhoffee,

I do not know much about Delilah, but I consider it an honor to be included on your list of bad guys with Mark C. and Verne. If being associated with such men is my worst failing...I'll count myself blessed.

However, it would be nice to know exactly what I am accused of, other than vague accusations about "spewing out hate and hurt".

Would you be so kind as to try to be specific?  Perhaps you could make a brief list of my transgressions?  I must confess I find your long treatise somewhat vague.  In fact, I can't understand it at all!

Perhaps, I am like the Ninevite "dumbies".  Most theologians think that this refers to children, not stupid people.  But then, I do not claim special enlightment from God.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Tom,

The reason you don't understand it is not because it is non-sensical ravings. No, quite the opposite. Your posts are non-sensical because they are from the flesh.

You can't understand Sarah because she is much more in tune with the spirit of God than you are. If you would just open up to the spirit, these things would be much more clear to you.

In the meantime, Sarah and company will just have to shake their collective head sadly as you stumble through the darkness.

 

S

[Eulaha L. Long]

How much does it cost to file a class action suit?  I would be glad to pitch in...

[jesusfreak]

Brent,

   I decided to reply to your post because I do not agree with what you wrote and I do not believe that you believe it either. Just because you cannot prove that GG is guily it does not mean that he is innocent, now does it? It may be just as difficult to prove that he is innocent as it is to prove that he is guilty. And it is not our job to prove him innocent. Would we have a BB if we believed he was innocent?

Re-read what is being said.  Brent has not stated that GG is categorically innocent of every allegation brought against him. All he has stated is that he realizes it is amazingly unfair to bring accusations without available substantiation.  This is entirely in reference to the accused infidelity.  

If I required no evidence before casting accusation, I can easily call you a pilferer of goats.  So let's say I do...prove to me that you do not steal goats.  How are you able to do so beyond the shadow of any doubt?

You should not have to prove your own innocence; you only need to prove that the evidence brought against you does not prove your guilt.  *THIS* is why Brent has stated his withdrawal from backing the accusation of this particular sin of GG's, he has no available proof.

It is *not* because he believes GG to be innocent, but only that GG is innocent until there is reason to believe otherwise (ie, proof).  

Anyway, GG is responsible for a greater many other things; things which *DO* have the backing of proof.

  Our agenda should be to make sure people like GG and his followers will NEVER be in power again. Our responsibility here on the BB is to make sure that we make people aware of what is/was going on in the Assembly. Are not we all emotionally hurt by all what happened? Is that what we want for the innocent newcomers to experience and reflect on a year from today?

Is this really why you are on this board?  To ensure the assemblies never rise again?  This is a medium of discussion, not a list of entreaties for their demise.  Obviously, included within these many discussions are evidences of the wrongs within the assemblies, but they are not meant as a "point by point" listing of faults.

If you strongly feel there should be more action against those who "wronged" you, than take it. What is stopping you?

--
lucas

[jesusfreak]

I know this guy who celebrates Christmas, has a tatoo, and a pierced eyebrow!

Man, do I feel better than him!  

On another note, why not pierce internal body parts. In this case, we can have the satisfaction of knowing that we did it as a statement, and not just for shock value.

Brent

I dunno, it would be quite shocking to see a stud sticking through a person's midsection......

--
lucas

I mean totally internal, so it doesn't show.  Then, it demonstrates true committment to art.

Brent

ohhh, that would be.....interesting  

speaking of which, guess what the new "teen craze" is?
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2900131/detail.html

Branding!  

--
lucas

[areyougettingit]

>Who's we? Who are you? What's your agenda? Where have you been the last year?

We, the people that were emotionally scarred.
My name is not important. What matters is that I am on your side.
My agenda is what I wrote in the post: to make sure more innocent people will not be involved in this Assembly=CULT thing.
That is once again something that does not matter. Fyi: I have been doing my homework. I was not ready to speak out loud.

>Far as I can tell Brent has done about 90% of the work to bring down GG's ministry. Far as I know you have done 0%. When are you going to start? When you can sign your name?

I give a lot of credit to Brent and I applaude his efforts. I can only wish I did it myself. But the question remains would any of your efforts matter if the Assembly gets back up again and innocent souls get twisted? I think it is time for us to pull it together and fight back. We just have to stay focused and accomplish the agenda. What is our Agenda?

>On what grounds specifically would you like to file a suit? Are you paying for it to be filed? How much do you have to pitch in?

I sense a little sarcasm here. Did you really think that by verbally expressing our feelings on a tiny corner of the web would accomplish the agenda? Have you been emotionally or physically abused, mistreated, misguided, taken advantage of, controlled, etc while you were in the Assembly? Do you think you are the only one like that? If I may ask, how much of your own money you gave to GG's Assembly while you were in it? Would you not want to make sure that this time your money is well spent? Plus, if only what I read on the BB was true, I think we have a legitimate case against the exploit that occured. I believe we need to be united and talk about what our goal is. And I am convinced there will be enough people to testify...

areyougettingit

[sarahhoffee]

I decided to remove my post from this board. It will still remain on SWTE.

Scott-

I couldn't have expressed it more eloquently.

[jesusfreak]

I decided to remove my post from this board. It will still remain on SWTE.

Scott-

I couldn't have expressed it more eloquently.

Why did you remove it?  Are you not confident enough in your own views to let them stand as what you believe?  How can you possibly comment on anything anyone else has to say if you are not willing to *state* what *you* think?

Honestly, do not expect to be taken seriously if you remain thusly obtuse.
--
lucas