I'm done sticking my neck out.

[moonflower2]

Poker? Yes indeed! And the ace-holders are hiding in the bushes.

Anyone ever play Rook? It's hard to flush out the high trump cards.

[Suzie Trockman]

OH, I forgot,

Another thing.  Do you suppose that even if George was faithful to Betty for their entire marriage that the Assembly was a healthy place, and that nothing bad ever happened there?

If witnesses refuse to prove that George was an adulterer, who cares?  I know that the place was rotten to the core, George's infidelity was only the icing on the cake.

We left for other, valid reasons, mainly because of the fact that the abuse, lies and false teaching was an affront to God.  We were not silent about our reasons, and have told our story.  When people said we were liars, we didn't shut up, we proved them wrong.

Again, thank you Rachel for your powerful contribution.  If anyone was ever a victim, it was you, and you have led the way and set the example on how to deal with things.  You had no choice where to be born, and were not involved willingly, yet you took the responsibility to warn others.

Your courage and character are to be commended.

Suzie

Hey, if anyone is confused, just call Brent.  Email us for his number.

[Peacefulg]

Brent, do you know what some of these women have done to try to stop George? Do you know what they have personally said to George and Scott and Mike and Jim? And how painful it was to be called liars by them? Are you fully aware of the legal avenues they have persued and are persuing? Many are still learning the depth of their victimization. I can assure you all of them know the depth of their guilt and much of that is not thier to bear. As for their husbands, parents, children, boyfriends, I praise God that some of them have been restrained from doing what they would like to do to George and his ilk.  These victims have enough to deal with without having those closest to them in jail for murder. The men I know are men in the finest sense. They are desperately trying to overcome evil with good. They are trying to rebuild their own smashed houses. They don't need rocks lobbed from the rest of us. They need much prayer, only love, and heaps of leniency.

Wendy Hinman

I have a few things that I would like to get cleared up!

One, from Wendy's quote above and other things like the evidence given to the French brethern, etc., that there are some women out there that had sexual relations with George, or this all could be some big scam, but Wendy's note really hit home in regards to these other women.  

Note to Wendy; I love the fact that you John took a very hard stance once everything "hit the fan", also I your friendship with Perry and Elaine M., really impressed me as you were the only people in leadership that I saw remained close to people that had left.  If I mis-read you then please let me know.

Second, from day one the "sex" stuff hit, all should have been laid out in the open.  I know of people that even though out of the Assembly the sex charges against George they could not believe.  I wish it could have been done in the manner in which Paul did when dealing with the church in Cornith.  When that letter was read to the WHOLE church, most people were not guessing who the man or the woman was, PAUL laid it out (thank God their was a "happy" ending we see in II Cor.).

I say this, those of you who would defend these women (if there are indeed many) for not coming foward and therefore let them continue in sin, do you have love for the brethern?  Again if this is true than many more than just them were/have been hurt.  You basically are saying that the l"little" sin not being dealt with is better than a whole loaf being saved.  I weep for you if you are more willing to stand for an individual than the body of Christ being purified.

Last, I do agree that for many any confession by these women would not mean much as most have already set their hearts one way or another.  My beef in riding this train is that from what I am seeing some would let this happen again in their new places.  Do any of stand for God even in our own lives all the time?  May we continue to GROW in the GRACE and KNOWLEDGE or OUR LORD and SAVIOR, may we truly SAY I MUST DECREASE and HE INCREASE.  

This whole thing the last two days has caused me to REALLY examine my self and the LORD has said look at this part of your life George.  I could be one of these "women" if I continue to not deal with the little things.

Peace be to all of you, and no matter where you stand in all of this, my Prayer is that all of you may be found faithful.  I got nothing but LOVE for all of you, even George G. (cause Christ came to save sinners)!

GOD BE WITH YOU TIL WE MEET AGAIN!
Cheers,
G

[editor]

Brent, do you know what some of these women have done to try to stop George? Do you know what they have personally said to George and Scott and Mike and Jim? And how painful it was to be called liars by them? Are you fully aware of the legal avenues they have persued and are persuing? Many are still learning the depth of their victimization. I can assure you all of them know the depth of their guilt and much of that is not thier to bear. As for their husbands, parents, children, boyfriends, I praise God that some of them have been restrained from doing what they would like to do to George and his ilk.  These victims have enough to deal with without having those closest to them in jail for murder. The men I know are men in the finest sense. They are desperately trying to overcome evil with good. They are trying to rebuild their own smashed houses. They don't need rocks lobbed from the rest of us. They need much prayer, only love, and heaps of leniency.

Wendy Hinman

Second, from day one the "sex" stuff hit, all should have been laid out in the open.  I know of people that even though out of the Assembly the sex charges against George they could not believe.  I wish it could have been done in the manner in which Paul did when dealing with the church in Cornith.  When that letter was read to the WHOLE church, most people were not guessing who the man or the woman was, PAUL laid it out (thank God their was a "happy" ending we see in II Cor.).

GOD BE WITH YOU TIL WE MEET AGAIN!
Cheers,
G

Bingo!  Jackpot!  Ding Ding ding ding.  
Peaceful G,  thank you for your insight and balance.

One of the main reasons that people in the SF and SAC assemblies hang on is because they have been told blatant lies about George and the "sex."

However, these lies are actually the "truth," because no one will come forward and counter them with anything but hearsay.

Your point in bringing up 1 Cor. is right on the money.

Brent

[Oscar]

Folks,

As I said before, I am not at all sure that even if the sisters went public it would discredit GG with some people.

After several of us left the assembly back in the 80's we published a little paper we called the "Noble Inquirer".

 Dave Sable wrote an article that proved that GG taught that Christians could end up in the lake of fire.  Another article showed the error of GG's ideas on "leaving fellowship".

As I recall, we sent out about 140 or so to addresses that Steve and Margaret supplied.

As I also recall, it accomplished nothing.  At least, nothing I ever heard about.  

Some of the people that post on these boards wrote us and asked for their names to be removed from the mailing list.

So, having the truth staring you in the face does not guarantee that you will accept it.

Some will not believe, even if one comes back from the dead to tell them.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[M2]

I know people want to believe that if the adultery victims would come forward, George would finally be pinned to the wall and what is left of his system of churches will disband forever.  I don't think so.

Holding George to account is like nailing Jell-O to the wall.  Even if the sisters came forward, there is always a way he would spin it and there would always be people who would believe him.  Even if all his associates disowned him, he would go down the street to a Bible study in his retirement community and take over.  He believes in his own ministry with all earnestness and he will continue in the power of the energizer bunny as long as the Lord gives him breath.   To assume that those who are supporting George will suddenly disown him if given more evidence is akin to believing that Norman Lear's "People for the American Way" or the ACLU will suddenly start allowing prayer and Bible reading in schools after we produce compelling source documents from the Founding Fathers.


To say that I don't want to spend my time trying to warn everyone about the Assembly and attempting to dissolve what remains is not indicative that I am a wimp.  It is just a pragmatic decision that recognizes that there are far worse threats to the church than the ministry of an aging man and his pitifully few followers (e.g., postmodernism, so-called tolerance, angry, Hollywood-type secularism, attack on the family unit).  Further, there are a great many positive ways one can leave their past and begin to positivly support and be supported by God's church.

In my opinion, the website a year ago was about bringing the Assembly down.  Now, the bulletin board is about helping people get on with their lives, shedding baggage of the past, putting pieces together, and involving themselves in healthy churches and relationships.

If God has stirred your heart differently, then I believe he will bless your efforts.

-Dave

Dave,  one comment re. Geftakys-assemblyism's threat to the church.  Some who have left the assembly in their locality by choice or not by choice, are actually influencing other healthy church gatherings and infecting them with their poisoned stew of the 'heavenly vision'.  This is scary.

I agree with Suzie and Clarence and others.  I did not leave the assembly because of GG's immorality anyway.  Other gatherings have similar problems where their leaders slip up.  It was that and the other indicators of a system-gone-wrong that finally clinched it for me.  A clear conviction that the assembly is a false religion.

The Fullerton LBs excommunicated George because of immoral behaviour in keeping with 1Cor5.  When I asked for verification at the time of excomm..., I was told that they, the LBs, would not have done it if they themselves were not sure.  So I did not pursue it at that time.

Brent, we appreciate your perspective on this BB.  Most of the day to day discussion has helped tremendously to put many of us on the path to 'recovery' from spiritual abuse.  Maybe you can convince the women of a witness protection program or something.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[Joe Sperling]

Tom---

You stated below that the printing and mailing of the "Nonle Inquirer" accomplished nothing.(at least that you know of.). I have to say that it did accomplish much in my own life. Though it wasn't the "end all", and didn't end my doubting and inner suffering, it switched on a light that could not be doused thereafter. It helped me know that there were others out there asking the same questions, and facing the same things. It made me continue to look further, and investigate more. I still have the copy that was mailed out to me.

When I received it I was amazed. I had no idea who had gotten my name, or why I was picked out to receive it. But as I read it I thought "yes yes--this is exactly what I had asked before--this is the same teaching I had doubted, etc..." I truly believe the Lord had it mailed to me--it was a stepping stone towards freedom---and I really and truly mean that.

I just wanted to state that, because often times when we feel nothing has been accomplished by a small action on our part, the Lord has really accomplished a great deal.

God bless,  Joe

[Peacefulg]

Heavy D (i.e., the overweight lover).  Man is that a blast from the past.  Great rapper, one of the better "positive" hip hop artist.  

Vern what else are you into (Chuck D, Tribe called Quest, Roots, etc.), you very much surprised me!  

Cheers,
G

[Oscar]

Tom---

You stated below that the printing and mailing of the "Nonle Inquirer" accomplished nothing.(at least that you know of.). I have to say that it did accomplish much in my own life. Though it wasn't the "end all", and didn't end my doubting and inner suffering, it switched on a light that could not be doused thereafter. It helped me know that there were others out there asking the same questions, and facing the same things. It made me continue to look further, and investigate more. I still have the copy that was mailed out to me.

When I received it I was amazed. I had no idea who had gotten my name, or why I was picked out to receive it. But as I read it I thought "yes yes--this is exactly what I had asked before--this is the same teaching I had doubted, etc..." I truly believe the Lord had it mailed to me--it was a stepping stone towards freedom---and I really and truly mean that.

I just wanted to state that, because often times when we feel nothing has been accomplished by a small action on our part, the Lord has really accomplished a great deal.

God bless,  Joe

Joe,

Thanks for saying that.  You are right, we do not know the ultimate outcome of anything we do.

Thomas M.

[delila]

Okay.

Having read the link to that 'other' bb I see that there are quite possibly many motives for bbs.  If Soaring...etc (the bb) were a person, an animal, a plant, how would it justify its existance on earth?  I wondered that this morning.  I mean, I live in the prairies and we know here that even grasshoppers have a purpose, if only to feed birds.  But the link to which Brent lead and what was written there, left me wondering about a lot of motives.  Certainly one motive, was to discredit much of what has been posted on this bb.   Does G fund it?

On a more serious note, these women, should they come forward, have my support.  I offer it now.  How can I help the truth to come to light?  I stick my neck out for that.  How can I be a support to you?  Read my posts.  I claim no status or spiritual superiority.  I do not condemn you, 'out' or not.  But I would like to know how I can be a support to you.  You will not be butchered here.  Or stoned.  Send me a private email if you like.  I support the truth.  And I know how complicated the truth is, how vunerable we are when we decide to speak it, what it feels like when the truth in our mouths is poo pooed.  But it's still the truth, isn't it?  And I also know that your truth, who ever you are, has the power to set others free.  "I see the one who sees me" Hagar said.  And, if no one believed her there in the desert when she was sent away, she saw the fountain God provided.  And that was all that mattered.

delila

[M2]

Delila,

You are a blessing and an inspiration.
If you were a man I might say that you are both an officer and a gentleman.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[Suzie Trockman]

Folks,

As I said before, I am not at all sure that even if the sisters went public it would discredit GG with some people.


Tom,

I don't believe the idea is to "discredit" George, but rather to firmly establish his guilt.  He is innocent until proven guilty and the only ones who can prove his sexual infidelity are remaining silent and annonymous.  Yes, I know he is guilty because I have spoken first hand to two of them, but a large percentage of people don't know his guilt because their testimony is not public.

Suzie

[Suzie Trockman]

Oops!  I messed up the quote thing on the previous post. But, I did want to add something.

It is pointless at this time to "discredit" George and yes, I agree having the women step forward now for the reason to "discredit"  George might be ineffective.

I would like to see them step forward however so that people can't discredit Brent.  When they are silent, people can say, "Who are these women and how do we know Brent isn't making this up?"  etc. etc.

When they are silent, people like George can say what they want uncontested. They are free to abuse others.

I will gladly stick my neck out for the Rachels and Judys, but I will think twice about doing so for the ones who are unwilling to back us up and end up in the long run chopping it off.

[M2]

...
I would like to see them step forward however so that people can't discredit Brent.  When they are silent, people can say, "Who are these women and how do we know Brent isn't making this up?"  etc. etc.

When they are silent, people like George can say what they want uncontested. They are free to abuse others.

I will gladly stick my neck out for the Rachels and Judys, but I will think twice about doing so for the ones who are unwilling to back us up and end up in the long run chopping it off.

Hi Suzie,

How is Brent discredited by their silence?  It was the Fullerton LBs who received their testimony in the first place, and the Fullerton LBs who excommunicated George.  We knew that there were 'some' women by the LBs testimony.  Brent only further confirmed that by his statements of frist-hand knowledge of who they were.  Brent has sufficient proof of their existence by the very same letter of excommunication that brought this matter to light.  I suggest that if Matt really doubts the very LBs he is sticking his neck out for, then he needs to ask them, the LBs, not Brent.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[editor]

...
I would like to see them step forward however so that people can't discredit Brent.  When they are silent, people can say, "Who are these women and how do we know Brent isn't making this up?"  etc. etc.

When they are silent, people like George can say what they want uncontested. They are free to abuse others.

I will gladly stick my neck out for the Rachels and Judys, but I will think twice about doing so for the ones who are unwilling to back us up and end up in the long run chopping it off.

Hi Suzie,

How is Brent discredited by their silence?  It was the Fullerton LBs who received their testimony in the first place, and the Fullerton LBs who excommunicated George.  We knew that there were 'some' women by the LBs testimony.  Brent only further confirmed that by his statements of frist-hand knowledge of who they were.  Brent has sufficient proof of their existence by the very same letter of excommunication that brought this matter to light.  I suggest that if Matt really doubts the very LBs he is sticking his neck out for, then he needs to ask them, the LBs, not Brent.

Lord bless,
Marcia

Marcia, no one really knows that, because they haven't dug into the minutia of the website.  Many current members only know that it is a lie, and that there is no evidence and that George was excommunicated "the wrong way."

They are wholesale liars.

Also, it is a real problem that people just take my word for it, and don't find out the truth for themselves.  Margaret said that there are people who know about this.  Have any of you bothered to find out if I am telling stories?

I could be you know....certainly that is what the other side is saying.  By other side I don't mean Matt, I mean guys like Testa, etc.

Their silence has the potential to discredit me because they won't speak up, therefore they don't exist.  For years,  Gay Walker knew about David beating Judy.  She knew about it for decades!

It was when she finally broke her silence and read George the riot act in one of the worker's meetings that people began to realize who George was.  While she was silent, the truth was still the truth, but it had no power.  David was never fit to minister, but he had total control, the truth notwithstanding, because people who knew better kept silent.

Same deal here.

Brent

Brent