This website makes me sick!!

[anonymous]

So, here we have a group of "overcomers in training".  I believe the Bible instructs us to overcome evil with good.  Sounds like we have a lot of training to do.

A large amount of the posts, comments, etc, here appear to be bitterness and hate.  The Bible doesn't instruct us to be bitter and hate when we are wronged.  Jesus himself teaches us to love our enemies.

I agree that some bad things have happened over the years--not just in the Geftakys family, either--but does that give those who have been wronged the right to then rail on those who have wronged them?  As Jesus stood before Pilate, He was silent--for you.

Christians have wronged some of you.  What are you doing back to them now?  The tone of this website has quickly deteriorated from a status of bringing situations to light to a status of openly resenting and bashing everyone in leadership--something goes clang if I am observing a group of Christians writing on this website and wondering if I want to become a Christian.

"By this shall all men know that you are my disciples: that you love one another."

[TGarisek]

I agree that there has been sarcasm and that this is a time where healing and recovery should be the rule of the day. I want to do all I can to promote that. But, the psychological trauma many of the would be "offenders" have been through may be foreign to you. The effects of decades long programming (guilt, fear & intimidation) will take a great deal of time to work out for some and possibly never get completely resolved for many. So, I have to be understanding and merciful and stand with my web site brethren here, hoping that the vindictiveness will discipate and real truth and love will overcome.

By the Lord's grace,

Tony

[Kimberley Tobin]

Voice in the Shadows:

I don't understand how exposing the sins of those who have perpetrated evil against believers is bitterness and hate.  In fact, I believe most of the people who are involved on the bb have great love for those who are in the "assembly".  Our reasons for posting is to "speak the truth in love".  Love sometimes hurts.  These were our dear friends and family members.  We are not lying about our experiences, we are bringing them out into the light.  

The "overcomers in training" etc., is simply a humerous way of dealing with the abuse we suffered in a "performance based" belief system.  "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God." 1Jn 5:5.  We are overcomers because we have placed our faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

We welcome your involvement and hope that you will have a serious dialogue about these things.

[Mark C.]

Dear Voice from the Shadows:
  No doubt some of the poster's on this BB who have left sound bitter and resentful.  We are human and as such share normal human emotions that react when mistreated.  The roll-over-and-play-dead theology is what kept many of us inside for many years.  We were taught that if we submitted we would discover that God would intervene on our behalf.
   We were to "go the way of the cross" while Husband's beat wives and children, Leaders lied to us, mastered our lives, etc.
    Part of the process of recovery is to free one's self from the false submission to Leadership we practiced.  Paul, used very strong language to describe those who dominated the faith of the sheep and described them using the strongest of terms.
    Your view of Christian "turning the other cheek" is taken out of context of the rest of scripture.  A good way to test your theology is to ask a question:  What should a Christian man do if a someone attacks his wife while they are walking down the street together?  Should the husband "turn the other cheek"?  Also, should the husband not express any emotions but love for the attacker?
   The love of God is not some kind of hippie, "Peace & love" pacifist message as God's character has a strong component of justice included in it.  God reacts strongly to sin (God is angry re. sin) and sin is what the poster's are reacting to.  As individual believers we need to be righteous and stand against sin and stand up for what is right as well.  We are to pray for repentance for those who are in sin, but true repentance does not allow for a covering up masked in the terms of a false forgiveness.
   I agree that bitterness needs to find healing, but this is a process that takes time and part of the purpose of this BB is to help one another in that process.  You will not find salvation through faith in the poster's on this BB as we are but sinners saved by grace, but I would urge you to look to the Christ of the cross and see in him a perfect love and a perfect salvation.        God's richest blessing,  Mark C.

[editor]

Hello, voice in the shadows.

Thanks for your contribution.  One thing you may notice is that many of us use our legal names.  The righteous are not afraid to be identified when they speak, or act, but the wicked like to hide in the darkness, because their deeds are evil, and they don't want to be exposed.

Why are you in the shadows?  Are you righteous or wicked?  For that matter, who are you?

I would also like to point out, in addition to the list that Garth gave us, the Lord Jesus used sarcasm against his critics as well,

Luke 13:32  And He said to them, "Go tell that fox..........

Paul used the term, "Super Apostles," which is clearly a sarcastic derogatory remark that described false teachers and evil men.

He also called people Evil, compared them to Jannes and Jambres, and said that he wished that they would emasculate themselves!

The Apostle John called these same sort of people Anti-Christ.

So, I apologize for the sarcasm, and I will just stick to the bible.

"God tell that fox, George, that he is the most eminent Apostle of them all.  He is an evil man and I wish he would castrate himself.  He is a viper, lying in the shadows waiting to bite someone who unsuspectingly sits down to rest in the shade."

Voice, I advise you to stay away from reading most of the Bible, especially the prophets, because they are often critical of people.  You might want to look at these, and then return with some comments:


http://www.geftakysassembly.com/codeofsilence.htm
http://www.geftakysassembly.com/fear.html
http://www.withchrist.org/forgive.htm

BTW, I am not offended by your remarks, becaue I understand why you said them.  I pray that you would have the courage to use your name, and that you would have the integrity to read the other side of the story before you make you decision.  All the same, we are glad to have your contribution.

Proverbs 18:17

Brent Tr0ckman

[William]

Voice in the Shadows is right. And I think "Mr. Freebird" leads pack w/ his anger & vitriole. None of us really understands the others' pain, etc.  But that never justifies (some of) the language & attitudes being expressed here. I do appreciate some of the replies that followed "Voice's" post. Of all I've seen here, I appreciate Kirk Cesaretti's writing most. It's well thought out, firm, yet humble. Note - you have not seen him all over these bulletin boards. I think he's been a good example.

[Kimberley Tobin]

I don't want to speak for Kirk C., but his lack of contribution on the BB is in no way due to his belief that the evil that has gone on doesn't deserve to be spoken about or brought out into the light.  If that were the case, he never would have allowed his article on the website (see "writings of Kirk C." on the main page.)

Some of us are more vocal than others.  Others don't feel a need to post.  That does not mean that this BB is not providing a great service to the body of Christ.  It is allowing the truth to be told to those who are still in the "assembly", albeit it might not be written perfectly.  Nonetheless, it is the truth.

You have not been harassed and mal-treated the way the Xanders have either, and therefore cannot understand the position the people in the Lombard "assembly" have put them in.  You say Kirk is a good example - that of silence.  That is what the "assembly" has always wanted to do with those who choose to "leave".  They are to be kept silent.  That is why we are shunned, excommunicated and otherwise disassociated with by friends of decades.  This BB is simply a place for us to come and share the truth for those who are willing to hear it.  The "assembly" won't allow the truth to be told in a public setting or even privately amongst old friends.  This BB accomplishes both.

[editor]

Hey William

why don't you give Kirk a call and see what he thinks about all of this?  I spoke with him last night.  Hear his view from his mouth and then pop off!  

If you like his writing, did you notice that he finally realized that it had to go on the Internet, on this website in particular?  Some of the letters he wrote are years old.  They all went into a black hole until he decided to put them on the web.

Question for you william:

Who has the greater sin, the one who says, "Praise the Lord!" and beats his wife, lies, steals, rages and crys false tears, or the one who has never done the things listed above but uses sarcasm in order to TALK about the first one's deeds in order to expose them?

I am eagerly awaiting your answer!

Brent

[editor]

Garth

How can you call yourself a christian?  You are so insensitive!  shouldn't you be praying for these people?  What harm did they ever do to you?

Now were talkin'!!!

Enjoy your new title, but beware, you still haven't really overcome.....it takes alot of grace.  Not only that, it takes a lot of diligence on our part, to see that we don't fall short of the grace.  You still need about 39 posts to overcome, and then we'll see.  Don't fall into the trap you are setting for yourself....

Brent, Servant of the GM

[William]

Hey Brent - I have spoken w/ Kirk. I didn't write anything about "his view". I wrote of my perception of him. Is that OK w/ you that I "popped off" in that way?

To appease your eagerness: I'll leave the judging of sin to God, but my opinion is "the one who says, "Praise the Lord!" and beats his wife, lies, steals, rages and crys false tears" is a FAR greater sinner. By the way, did I call you a sinner?

Kimberley - I would never defend the actions of the criminal you are speaking of. Nor deny TREMENDOUS evil has occurred. That man is a monster & nothing less. He belongs in prison. I'm not @ all against free speech or any forum to speak your mind.

Freebird (Garth) - I don't expect everyone to agree with what I say, do you? I’m glad you kindly respond to some people. Don’t feel sorry for my being “sensitive”, I consider it a quality I need to develop. I guess I can’t quite relate to your “absurdity”. Don’t assume too much about me from a 9-sentence message. I do not support a system that has ruined lives, split families, supported abusers, and covers up awful sin. Please save your big hug and kiss for another.

This site doesn’t “make me sick”, but I’m somewhat disappointed in this Bulletin Board. It doesn’t seem much different to me than other Christian sites I’ve seen where the people write in such a way I can’t ever imagine them speaking to each other face to face. I realize now I should not have posted. Sorry if my opinion bothered you. Internet / Bulletin Boards seem to inspire a real nastiness in SOME people. I even see myself inspired to sarcasm - which I don’t like. Sorry. But I know some will criticize regardless, please feel free to continue yours of me.

[editor]

Hey William

Excellent response.  No, you did not come out and call me a sinner, but I admit that I am one, as I'm sure you do to.

You answered my question in a most acceptable manner.  I think I can speak for most people out there by saying that you are welcome to post here, even if you must take us to task.

For the record, I too recognize the limitations of bulletin boards.  This is no substitute for face to face fellowhip. It isn't even a substitute for emailing one another.  It  is simply off-the-cuff banter that occasionally blesses and frequently makes me laugh.  As long as I don't expect more, I am perfectly happy with it.

When did you speak to Kirk?  He is one of my best friends, I spoke with him last night.

Brent

[editor]

OH! one other thing.

I invite you, William, to please lift our gaze.  Most of the responses in the Grace and Truth sections, or the Bible sections are edifying.  You are most welcome to bless us, or even correct us at any time.

Brent

[Kimberley Tobin]

William:

I could respond to a lot more of what you say but I will limit myself to what you addressed to me.  I have a question.  If you would not defend this man and agree that he belongs in prison, then are you still in the "assembly" or were you simply monitoring this board?  If you were simply monitoring the board, disregard my next question.  However, if you are still in the "assembly" and you believe the above, then how can you in good conscience stay in a place where they willingly lied, covered up, allowed the abuse to continue and escalate and continue to slander, assasinate the character of and excommunicate those of us who are standing for righteousness?

[Tony Rosete]

Can somebody explain to me why so much time has been spent making sure that the victims of all these horrendous actions take the high ground and repent, love, forgive, keep quiet, and get their act together??  Meanwhile, these same "ministers of righteousness and unity" quickly jump to the defense of the offenders, and demand names, dates, times, details, social security numbers, and DNA evidence before being willing to confront this wretchedness.  Oops, did inclusion of DNA evidence just make me an Assistant to the Minister of Anger and Vitriole?

It's beyond my comprehension how few people have contacted any of the victims, and are spreading word that "plans are being made" to do so.  These people have made themselves extremely easy to reach, and those that I have contacted responded instantly and with kindness.  Meanwhile, the "repenting" offenders have secret meetings and bounce some of the offended at the door, while making intricate plans to "contact" the victims.

When are you "voices in the shadows" going to start standing up for the sheep and the offended, and condemn the wolves that attacked and abused some of God's dear little ones!?!?!!  

Maybe some have been extra angry and even bitter sounding at times on this board, but as Brent said, their names are there in black and white and if they error, it is on the side of standing up for the abused, while others hide behind closed doors, clever user names, and protect the reputation of wolves in sheep's closing.

Have a nice day  

[Mark C.]

Hi Tony,
  I will attempt an explanation for "those hiding in the shadows of darkness" (isn't that something bad?).
  The logic goes like this:
1.) God raised up this great work and it is the pinnacle of his new creation on earth; The Church, Heaven on Earth, The Earthly expression of God's government, ad nauseum.
2.) The Leaders have been ordained by God and as such we must obey them without question.  Even when they blatantly sin we really didn't see what we saw, and if we dare to say we saw it we are being carnal and so it is really our problem, and don't we see that we need to get right with God!!!! add run on sentence nausea. (now I am getting sick)
3.) It is really the Devil trying to attack the great work by calling the Workers down from the wall to talk (it's a trick of the Devil, this call for repentance).
4.) Those who are on the outside calling for justice and repentance are just bitter and disgruntled former members who have a personal grudge against GG and the Leaders.  Therefore, whatever they say has no truth or meaning to it. There are many anti-Christ's--- since they left us they must be of this company and therefore are counted as dung. "I don't think we need any outsiders telling us our sin".
5.) Logic?  God does not work through logic, or common sense.  We need to pursue a higher wisdom; we must put on our spectacles and see that God created the Assembly on the 7th Day!  Lay aside what your clear moral sense is telling you is wrong and drink the kool-aid provided for you.  There is no right or wrong for the spiritual man has ascended to a higher pinnacle of truth and revelation and as we enter the 4th dimension of the Spirit we can see the breath of the Spirit bring us into the sphere of greater illumination---- (add much nauseum and also add a large cup of insanity to this above recipe.)  Yes, of course, stir it into the kool-aid.
       God bless those who read with spiritual health,  Mark