This website makes me sick!!

[trockman]

5 overcomer points for Margaret!
God gets angry from time to time, and he never sins.  I get angry all the time, and I often sin, but I have no conviction from the Holy Spirit that being angry about the Assembly is sin.  In fact, being silent about these things is Definitely sin!

The wheel and the line was drilled into everyone for the better part of nine years Margaret.  It has been a literal fountain of abuse.  Some day I'll post some of the "doctrine" that was brewed up in George's perversion of Solomon's still in order to expose it.  However, right now we seem to be focusing on the possiblility of repentance occurring, and I don't want to distract people.

Brent

[Kimberley Tobin]

Peaceful:

It is somewhat difficult to understand your posts, so if I misunderstand something, please forgive and clarify.

I would like to respond on a couple of issues:  

1)  What are people's sins you speak of "be angry and sin not"?  Yes, we are angry (as I believe Christ is angry with these people.)  Yes, we want to see justice done.  People wave around the verse, "vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord."  Does that mean that if you witness a murder, you tell the prosecutor, "sorry, 'vengeance is mine sayeth the Lord'.  I can't testify as I believe it is the Lord's place to bring this person to justice."  No!  How ludicrous!  You would testify and see this person put in prison.  These are the same issues.  We are bringing everything out into the light IN ORDER that Christ may bring these men to justice.  

2)  We do not hate these men and women.  It would be much easier to just walk away (right Rachel?)  It is painful for some to even deal with these issues (I don't think many of us can even fathom the pain that Rachel and Judy are suffering at having this to deal with on a daily basis.)  The reason most of us are involved on the BB and with this website is out of a great love for the men and women involved with this ministry.  Many would have said that Christ in the temple hated the money changers, etc., but we all know that not to be the case.  Look a little deeper than just surface level to see the motivation behind this website.

We do welcome input such as yours though, as it gives us an opportunity to explain to those who are simply monitoring the board these things, rather than leaving it to their imagination.  

[Oscar]

Hi all,
I seem to have left before this "Wheel and Line" stuff hit town.  I had never heard of this before I started reading this site.
However, I do remember making George Geftakys very mad at me once in a restaurant called DIMI'S on Balboa in Northridge, CA.  He said, "Let's go", then we got in his car.  He stormed out of the parking lot, and made a left turn right in front of 3 lanes of oncoming traffic.  They all honked at him so he rolled down the window and yelled at them.  He had several wheels and crossed some lines.  Is that what it means?

Tom

[trockman]

Hi Tom

He had several wheels and crossed some lines.  Is that what it means?

Ah, not exactly.  In someone else, this would have proven that "S" was in the center, but we know that this could not have been the case with brother George.

"I don't know all the details," of what you are talking about, but you shouldn't speak this way about the Lord's servant.  

Brent

[Tony Rosete]

Brent - I get 5 overcomer points, but no title??  What is that?!?!

Am I not being entreatable, do I need say "thank you sir may I have another" 50 times?!!

Or are you assigning titles behind closed doors, and making plans to contact us in the right time about it?

[retread]

Dear Voice in the Shadows,

You say that this website make you sick, and that it is filled with bitterness and hate.  I would have to disagree.  I believe that this website is a spiritually healthy endeavor, and while it may appear that there is bitterness in some of the voices here, the truth still does need to be told.

If there is indeed bitterness and hate on this website, we need to ask ourselves why is this so.  I truly believe that any negativity on this website is the direct result of the sins of the leadership. When someone in leadership sins, this sin does not just impact them, but the entire flock, and this is a very serious matter.  This was the case with the Pharisees and the Saducees, their leaders had committed a great sin in deceiving them and leading them away from the truth, and the impact of this sin was on all who were under their leadership.  When the Pharisess and Saducees came to "John the Baptist" to be baptized, he said to them:

"O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?  Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance"  (Matthew 3:7-8)

You may think that John also suffered from the same "bitterness and hate" that you say you have observed on this website, but I would say John spoke out of his love for the Lord, and concern for God's creation.  John the Baptist had a great love for God's people, and because of this he was baptizing the people of God (Jersualem, Judaea, and all the region around Jordan went to him to be baptized).  John said what needed to be said.  These people were a generation of vipers, and they needed to demonstrate repentance.  The act of baptism would have just been for outward appearance sake for them, it would not have been a baptism of repentance.  Likewise the Fullerton leadership needs to demonstrate the "fruits meet for repentance".

You say "By this shall all men know that you are my disciples: that you love one another".  If we truly love God's people as did John the Baptist, we need to speak the truth, even if it may appear to hurt ore offend.

"Open rebuke is better than secret love.  Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful." (Proverbs 27:5-6)

Love in not remaining quiet while God's people are hurt by the sins of those who are in leadership positions over them. If you see words that appear hateful, they are a result of the sins of the leadership.  The leadership should make you sick not this website.  I must admit that it hurts me too, to see things which may on the surface may appear hateful, and sometimes when reading some posts I hope that the language would not turn hateful, but I know from where the sin originated, and I have no ill feelings towards any of our more aggressive contributors.

Please pray for the true repentance of the leadership, and not feel that it is this website that is making you sick.  We need true repentance.  Repentance that brings forth fruit.  Just maybe this website will help open the eyes of those in assembly leadership positions, and help bring about their repentance for the glory of God.

[Aslan213]

Tony,

Do you expect better treatment?  Now brother, is Christ in the center of your heart?  

If you were identified with Christ, you would not be concerned about titles or acknowledgements.  When a title is assigned, you will never hear about it from leadership.  That's the way we do it here.  Praise the GM, brother!

[Joe Sperling]

Just a quick thought regarding anger. I remember once having a discussion with someone who said that "God never gets angry, so we shouldn't either--it's just not very Christ-like". So I asked him if he had been in the Temple the day Jesus went around overturning the money-changers tables in anger if he would have said "That's not very Christ-like of you Jesus". I mention this because I see this Website and what has been happening lately a little like that Temple-cleaning--it's a cleaning of the house. It's a righteous anger directed against wrong-doing, but meant to bring about repentance and restoration. I don't believe anyone on this site wishes destruction of the Asembly or hurt to anyone involved with it. It's the sincere desire of all that true repentance develop and healing ensue. "Faithful are the wounds of a friend"---the leadership and others may not like to hear what's being said, but it's very necessary and I believe from the Lord himself. Change must come about and I believe the Lord has decreed it.


---Joe

[Kimberley Tobin]

Well said Joe!

[anonymous]

Thank you all for allowing me to post on this site.  I put much thought into starting this topic, and I know you each put much thought into continuing it.

I have seen abuse outside of the assembly toward women and it bothers me greatly.  Not one bit of it is justified.  Therefore, Rachel, I try to understand what you and your mother have experienced...I have seen the tears of abuse, and know that they are the hardest to comfort...and that's about all I will claim to understand!  I am expecting your situation to have a conclusion that is appropriate...at long last...

The main thing here I take issue to, as I have said, is simply the attitudes...not toward the Geftakys family...but knocking many things the assembly has taught and stood for...even things like devilboxes (TVs!).  I know that it is meant to be sarcasm, but some people don't see it that way.  Some think you're serious.  Like Sue said, the true tones, thoughts, feelings never come across email correctly, anyway.  (Btw, re: TVs: They aren't evil.  You just need to be careful with them!)

And, yes, things have been taught in error and situations handled inappropriately, and that is what some of you are concerned about.  I don't stand here to justify any of that, nor could I justify ripping on people for it.  I can't agree with either; I simply do what I can to stand before God with these things.  It's a tough one, I'll admit!!!

Thank you, each, though for considering what you are saying and the tone you are using.  All I wanted to do is get you to think about that.  This website has allowed everyone to take a step back and think about what they believe, what they are committed to, and how a major issue is going to be addressed.  I appreciate that many of you are likewise willing to step back and consider what I have said...take it or leave it!

[outdeep]

I was in a training class for our foster care license when one of the social workers started talking about her divorce.  She stated that it took her about seven years before she was able to talk amiably with her ex-husband because of the anger of the betrayal she had to work though.

It stuck a chord of interest with me as it was about seven years before I stopped feeling a need to talk about this group in my past and the things that they did (mainly to glassy eyed Christians who had absolutely no context of what I was talking about – were you in a cult or something?  Not exactly.  Were you stupid?  I don’t think so.)

The point is, the emotional confusion and anger stays with you for a while and I am one whose hurt, though significant, was relatively minor compared to what others had gone through.

I won’t rehash the Judy and Rachel case as it is all over this site.  But, are you asking that they snap to attention and reach out with measured response and a placid smile on their lips?  

Get real!  What insane standard can you possibly be holding them to?  Or is the real issue the fact that people are getting angry and not the abuse itself?  Now there is a handy tool from Dysfunctional Leadership 101.

I am thankful that after twelve years I am able to sort out the good, the bad, and the ugly.  I am thankful that I can truly rejoice in the good things that God had done for me in those Assembly years.  But it took time.  And it took lots of reading, thinking, and conversations with supporting friends such as the Madduxs, the Wheels, the Everts, the Irons, the Campbells, and the DeSimones to help me find my bearings through the maze of confusing ideas and feelings and bring my vessel back to an even keel.

-Dave Sable
Deep Gap, NC
outdeep@yahoo.com
www.outdeep.com

[Peacefulg]

Hi outdeep, glad to see the Lord got restoration in your life.

Lord Bless,
George A.

[Eulaha L. Long]

Dear Voice in the Shadows,

I think you are a very genuine person.  I also think you can be very open-minded.

I have spoken about the emotional abuse I have suffered from the Assembly.  Please understand, I refuse to be silent about what I suffered in the Assembly.  The Assembly doesn't want people to know what's really going on in the sect.  When I first left in 2001, I was told not to talk to anyone about the Assembly.  Now, think about this: what kind of church tells its members not to talk to others about their group?  Most churches I've been involved with are eager to share with others the ins and outs of their group.  Doesn't the Assembly's "no talk" rule strike you as odd?  They are trying to hide stuff from outsiders, because the Assembly knows that what they do is wrong.  Ok, they preach the gospel, yes, but the social aspect of the group is cult-like in nature.  I have read at least 4 books concerning cults, and the Assembly's dynamics match them to some extent.  I don't think of the Assembly as a cult, but as a sect.
I can not change your mind, and to be honest, I don't have the energy to do so, but I will tell you that the Assembly walls are crumbling.  Many will be stumbled (and many have been stumbled).  Get out before you get crushed!
It gets a little tiring to try and change people's minds about their involvement in the Assembly.  I think there are those who are totally clueless about the abuse, but on the same hand, I believe there are those that are fully aware of the abuse, and refuse to acknowlege the truth.  Where you fall in all of this is anyone's guess, but you sound quite intelligent.  After reading the information onthe Geftakys Assembly website, how can you stay in that group?  How can you support (yes-SUPPORT) what is going on in that group by staying?  Maybe something's wrong with MY thinking, but I honestly don't get it...

[Mark C.]

Dear Voice in the Shadows,
  I also sense your sincerity and wish to try and communicate with you in a similar tone.  
  I don't think that it is easy to see what is going on in the Assembly from the inside.  I have noticed a change in your tone since you have started to participate here and I think that is because you are beginning to see there are other ways to look at things re. the Assembly.
   I believe the problems there are deeply rooted in the teaching and practices of the Assembly, and do not just revolve around GG and family.  GG is a very disturbed individual who has established a system that perpetuates spiritual abuse in it's member's lives.  Whether GG, or other's step down, the above issue must be faced.
  I and other's have detailed this many times and there is no need to spell it out again here.
   Continue to read, post, and be blessed in doing so.
                                        God bless,  Mark C.

[garylwilson]

Hi all

This is a 1st for me so I have some mixed ramblings to
share.

My name is Gary Wilson. I first started attending the fellowship in Fullerton in 1972.  Yea, I'm an oldie.  Actually I stopped going a couple years ago.  Had nothing to do with anyone else - just my own personal discourgement.
Believe it or not but all that has been going on has been stirring my heart to renew my walk with  the Lord.

Throughout the years I haven't had anyone pressure me to do this or that.  Probably would have zero effect anyway.
There have been a number of brothers and sisters throughout the years that have shown me great kindness.
Some of these people are still in fellowship in the various
assemblies.  Others throughout time have left.  I have the fondest memories of these ones.

I don't say that to negeate what has happened.
I have been fortunate.  I never swallowed all the teachings
hook line and sinker.  Really the things that have stayed with me are the things that I got from the word personally.
Godly non-assembly books have had the greatest impact on me.  Things like wheel and the line and assembly fads I usually viewed as Methods.

What point am I getting to.  Simply this!  Although others and people in leadership may influence or pressure someone there is also the aspect of individual accountablility. Does that excuse leadership or groups.
Absoultely not.  But I guess an application that can be drawn is simply to be an individual before God in all of our
decisions.  I guess we all need the courage of our convictions.  
I know individuals have been hurt.  I pray all that have will be able to go forward without resentment.
I am astounded that Judy and Rachel could have gone through so much abuse.  I am astounded at how they could have been so abandoned.  How terrible to look to ones you should be able to trust for help and be betrayed. I am certain that some have left for legitmate reasons and been hurt.  I am also convinced that some have left with nothing more that an axe to grind.  God knows our hearts.  
Personally I never thought we were the last stop in a believers call to God.  I always thought if someone could come into fellowship here - they had to have come from somewhere - then why couldn't they go somewhere else.
The reasons and motives need to be left with God.

I have a poor analogy to share.  I once worked for a company for 8 years that had terrible management - leadership.  People were used, lied to, etc.  I noticed that
the ones that left generally were the more confident ones.
However the ones that stayed behind were the more timid and less confident individuals.  I am speaking in general terms.  The timid folk would complain about what was happening but refused to be vocal to management.  In that situation I was the exception.  I had a whole lot to say. I am usually a much more timid soul.
I can only think they kept me on because they feared some form of ligation - I documented events.  The point I am making is we all as Christians need to know WHAT WE BELIEVE, and THE COURAGE TO EXPRESS AND ACT ON OUR CONVICTIONS.

I stated earlier that I was in the Fullerton assembly.
Actually I came out again last Sunday
 I know without a doubt  that God called me to that fellowship years ago.  If he leads me out so be it.  But I - with open eyes - want to see what the Lord is going to do.  I am responsible for my decision to stay.  I am responsible for what I see in the future and what I do with that.

May God give all of you and light and wisdom in all of your
personnel decisions.  May we all learn from the events that have transpired.

Yours in Christ
Gary Wilson