DAILY CHATTING ABOUT THINGS

[editor]

Well,

I've been reading up on the Canadian Mental Health Association today.  They state very clearly that employment is of key importance in helping those with mental illness recover and get back into mainstream society.

I looked at job listings for Lenore's area, and thought about what sort of job would be good for her.

I decided that if I were her, I would want something where I could do the following:

1.)not work around people
2.)not do anything too difficult
3.)earn income that I didn't have to pay taxes on or report.
4.)get exercise

I came up with the ideal business for her.

Pet Sitting, and dog walking.

For a small fee she could provide a valuable service and it fits with the common sense approach of 1-4 above.

Perhaps she will read this, or maybe those of you who correspond with her can let her know about this idea.  It makes sense to me.

Here's a link to a Canadian who's doing this very thing:
http://www.peoplefield.org/classifieds/disp_post.cfm/cc.33396/clt.1/p.htm

Brent

[editor]

Hey, Brent, why don't you stop being a jack-ass.  You are going to devastate that poor lady.  Do you struggle with food allergies or what has gotten into you that you have become beyond appeal?  Are you losing sleep and drinking dark coffee?  Did you hit your head on a beam? shut your hand in the car door? stub you toe on the edge of the bed?  Did a car run over your family dog?  Whaattt? 

Really, this is not funny, charming, clever, or productive.  You are obsessed.  Next thing we'll all hear is that you are living on a street corner in a cardboard box because "he couldn't give up his hatred for Welfare." 
 
IMO, Al does go out of his way to use spiritual terms.  He wears himself out "giving God the glory" and constantly gives subtle corrections of others who do not give a spiritual sounding account of something that has to do with him.  It seems that he has a deep desire for everything in his life to be about God and doesn't believe it is unless he speaks of it as such. That really doesn't make it so, but he believes it does.  There are worse things....people who turn into ranting maniacs, just to mention one. 

But I'm just a guest here, so I don't want to overstep.    

Sondra

OK,

I think you're right.  I'll stop.

Thanks

Brent

[editor]

You've made a lot of good points that I'm sure any who have read all of this won't forget anytime soon.  I don't think "Welfare" has ever been so front and center in my attention before reading all this on this board.  An awful lot of us tax paying Americans are sick of the contradictions and abuse.  It is almost maddening.  This type of rage seems to be catching on among caring Americans who are sick of the waste and abuse.  We work hard so others can play and destroy our society in big numbers.  It just seems like the sleeping giant has to be awakened to serious national problems as a nation before they can be corrected.

I sure appreciate your strong convictions.  You show you do care by your "fervor."   

Sondra

Thanks Sondra,
I have been doing alot of reading lately, mainly about the way people thought about public policy prior to FDR. 

I am convinced that conincident with America's spiritual decline is America's transition to an immoral social/economic system.  AT the forefront of that is the notion that other people have a right to property that doesn't belong to them, by virtue of some special right or privilige.  It could be some sort of dictator, or in our case poverty.  It's wrong, either way.

I never realized how bad it was until I studied proverbs recently.  I was shocked.  We're in big trouble.

Brent

 

[editor]

My husband and I discuss this stuff all of the time.  I am convinced that liberalism got it's toe in the door through the teachings of Nietzsche
 in the universities in the US in the early 60's.  Liberalism has taken over the minds of young college grads through liberal professors and they can't seem to give our country away fast enough.  (This is a generalization, of course). 

"America's spiritual decline is America's transition to an immoral social/economic system" - It's hard to say which decline was first.  When God got left out of our schools and universities, moral decay set in in many ways.  Nietzsche and other philosophers had atheistic influence on the minds of a whole culture of young people during the 60's.  Now they are the professors who are teaching liberalism.  And the cycle continues...atheism, socialism, marksism, etc

Well, the pendulum swung out.  Maybe it will swing back somewhat as good people with strong conviction continue to awaken.  Stepping up and getting tough with liberals is a must, IMO.  Conservatives didn't have much of a voice and it was very discouraging to always hear conservatives criticized by the media during the news hour.  Well, that's changed and I believe things will change.

I believe the strong influence of the Word of God in our nation will keep people revisiting the values of God.  We may have a fight on our hands to restore what has been stolen from our society, but it's been done before.  With God, all things are possible.  I'm hopeful.

Sondra

Certainly the libs introduced these things.  FDR was the one who made it federal policy, yet even he didn't forsee the massive waste and abuse that has occured since.

LBJ made it all worse, and things got really out of hand in the 60's and 70's, which is when the "entitlement" mentality took hold.  Here's an interesting quote:

Martin Anderson, former senior economic adviser to President Reagan, sums up the simple illogic of workfare.

If people are on welfare then, by definition, those people should be unable to care for them- selves. They can't work; or the private sector can't provide jobs enough. That is supposed to be the reason they are on welfare. What sense does it make to require someone to work who cannot work?

The idea of making people work for welfare is wrongheaded. If a person is capable of working, he should be ineligible for welfare payments. Instead of requiring men and women who are receiving fraudulent welfare payments to work, we should simply cease all payments.

This guy has it down cold.  If they are able to work, they shouldn't get benefits.  Having them work for benefits is an oxymoron.  It is the height of stupidity, and it's evil.  Why should I work in order to pay a lazy bum money for doing only what is required in order for him/her to receive benefits?  I don't qualify for the benefits I am forced to purchase for a stranger!

Here's the clincher: If I refuse to hand over my money, I'll go to jail and/or have my property confiscated. If it becomes apparent that welfare bums have been working the system, instead of dealing with them in the manner they deal with the diligent, they re-work the system to keep the money flowing.  It's sick.  Christians shouldn't have any part in that system.

Libs want to throw more money and benefits at welfare people.  Sadly, most republicans want to require welfare people to work or go to school in order to qualify to receive benefits.  That, to me is the biggest problem we face now.  Everyone knows that welfare has miserable failed.  However, there is no longer any debate about whether we should have it....it's here to stay.  The only debate now is how we should tinker with the system to force recipients to behave better.

It still boils down to rewarding evil and punishing good, which is wrong and doomed to fail.  The republicans are just as guilty as the dems in this respect, even though they're supposedly evangelical christians.

Brent

[editor]

Well, I guess you've got me on this one because I was not aware that R's are supporting legislation that sponsors "work for welfare relief."  Have not heard about this.     I still don't see how they would be "as guilty as the dem's in this respect."  Plus, IF I WERE KING, I would necessarily devise a plan for transition from welfare to earning your own way which might include a combination.  There's no sense in throwing people out into abject poverty.  This program has worked for welfare mom's.  Don't know why all of the men that hang around street corners sipping on wine were ignored in this regard.  It seemed to me that the mom's should have been the second group to be baptized.

Re. paying taxes.  Many Christians aren't fully disclosing on their tax reporting for this very reason.  I've heard quite a lot of "inside" comments on this.  Give to Caesar that which is Caesar's...give to God... can be discerned to take into account what is fair and due tied to faithfulness and wise usage, in the eyes of many believers.

Sondra

cheating on taxes is NOT the way to go.  I don't do it, and your point about rendering to Caesar is spot on.

Welfare reform is what the republicans are all about.  They've done different things in different states, all of them designed to make it harder for people to receive benefits.  What I mean by this is that in one state, benefits for children are contingent on the children being enrolled in school.  In another, welfare recipients must show that they have looked for work, etc.  Still elsewhere, they are required to get training, or attend classes.  The basic idea is that by educating, coercing and modifying behavior by linking the benefit with a certain action, people can be transitioned from lazy to productive.

It has failed, miserably.  I'll post articles about the "declining" welfare roles for those who want to repeat that talking point.  The greatest failure is in the black community.

Forget discussing the libs...they're helpless, hopeless and lost.  It's the republicans who worry me.

Notice that if we adopt the "welfare reform" mentality, we are still faced with the same problem.  If you can cajole people into working by withholding benefits or making them go to school....why not just eliminate the payments altogether?  Wouldn't that force them to work just as well?  What's the point in reforming a system that is inherintly wrong and evil?  Scrap it.  Let the bums pick strawberries, and then maybe the Mexican illegals will share some carne asada with them at the end of the day.  That accomplishes the same thing as reform, and it doesn't require the building of government centers and the employment of hundreds of workers in order to occur.  Behavior is modified due to the benefit being eliminated.  I like it.

The problem is that no one has the stomach for it.

Brent

[CAGirl]

Brent,
   Isn’t there a time limit on how long you can be on Welfare? I mean, I understand helping people who are “down on their luck”. But is this like a bottomless pocket for them? Say I went on Welfare. Can I just stay on it for a few years? Do I need to prove that I have a disability or do I have to get pregnant? What’s the deal?

[editor]

Brent,
   Isn’t there a time limit on how long you can be on Welfare? I mean, I understand helping people who are “down on their luck”. But is this like a bottomless pocket for them? Say I went on Welfare. Can I just stay on it for a few years? Do I need to prove that I have a disability or do I have to get pregnant? What’s the deal?

Supposedly there is a time limit.

However, there are exceptions and extensions to that time limit, and as far as I know, once you go off welfare you can just re-up a few months later.

Also, in CA there are many different kinds of public assistance.  Medi-cal,  WIC, AFDC, SSI, HUD, foodstamps, etc.

Many people qualify for multiple programs.  As far as I know, the ones that involve children have no time limit.  Medi-cal is based solely on income, if a person has 4 kids and only makes 50K per year, they can get Medi-cal.

Also, keep in mind that low income people pay no income tax either.  They do pay sales tax, gas tax and everything else, but SSI, PIT, SDI, ETT....almost every penny of these taxes are refunded, and in some cases people actually get money back that they didn't earn in the first place.  I do all the payroll for my office myself, so I know this to be true.

Somehow, in spite of the "limits" there is a large and growing class of permanent welfare recipients.  Many of the clever ones collect under more than one name, and in more than one state!!

Here's a funny story:

One of my patients who is a case worker for social services (means she fills out paperwork for people so they can get welfare) saved up with a few co-workers to go on a week-long Mexican cruise.  The cruise cost about 1000.00 per person, double occupancy.  That includes food, room, etc.  BUT NOT BOOZE.

Who should these ladies find were their shipmates?  A group of people that were clients of theirs....welfare recipients.  They were drinking up a storm, and smoking too.  Where did they get the money for this?  When asked they said,  "We have been saving for years, this is a dream trip for us."

Not bad eh?  Get someone to fill out forms for you, and save, and go on a cruise...all for being lazy.

Brent

[M2]

Dear Lenore,

I like Moonie's(belfry's) advice, "Say it with me Lenore: God loves ME so much that He died for ME.  I am special to Him because HE LOVES ME. I am worth something because He died for ME."  This is where your true self worth lies.  If/when someone disappoints me Christ still loves me.  If/when I fail Christ still loves me.

I/we do not begrudge you anything, but want the best for you.  We (you and me) disagree on what avenue that 'best' comes by.
I remember the gift you gave me on my 25th birthday (almost 23 years ago now), something you had made yourself, and of all the gifts I received that one touched me at the time.  I remember thinking that you did not have to give me anything, but you took the time to make something so that you would have a gift for me.

You may have observed that I suffer from mood disorder when I get behind the the steering wheel.  It is always some driver's fault that I missed the green light because he couldn't find the pedal on the right.  It gets me in a foul mood, good thing I don't drive a truck.  My daughter and I were commenting on the mother's day stories broadcast on CHRI/FM today.  Some kid would phone in and say, "my mother is the most patient person I know..." and we were laughing at how she(my daughter) could never phone in and say that about me, especially about my driving.  It sounded too much like fiction.

So, welcome to the human race.  We all have problems.  But now that I am an adult, I own my problems.  Sure I can identify the source/root of the problem, but it is up to me to own it.  I cannot change my environment, but I can change my attitude.  I can blame others for my foul attitude, "it was that driver's fault for slowing me down,  I can't believe how people drive.  He's getting on the freeway and he thinks he's on Carling Ave etc. etc. etc."  When I get in a car my one focus is to get to my destination.  It humbles me to know that I am nothing, but thank God that He loves me.

Oh and those pre-conceived notions, those really bring on a dose of disappointment.  When things don't go as they should have, or should they have gone the way we pre-conceived it anyway , but that's another discussion.

Got to end this now.
Blessings,
Marcia

[LENORE]

MAY 7TH:

MARCIA:

I LOVE YOU FOR TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.

Yes it begins with the attitude. which I am trying to learn, to recognize my feelings , my responses, and to change my responses.

Feelings are normal...

What you described is not MOOD DISORDER...
MOOD DISORDER...IS A MENTAL ILLNESSES.

and Mental Illnesses does not mean that you are MENTALLY INCAPABLE or deficient in INTELLEGENCE.

Mood Disorder...is dealing with the swings of moods associate with depression, bi polarness, sciphenia, etc.

Mood Disorder can control you outlook in life, can control you moods, and control your actions to those moods, just like real life does, but must more so...but you are still able to think but because of your outlook on life, because of the learning mechanism you needed to learn to cope, becauses of defenses required to protect an  already battered and scarred soul, and heart, and mind, and because of the wack out chemical reactions that occur in your brain.
When all this comes in to play, that is all that matters for the moment.
Whether it is being so dispaired that the suicide thoughts come, you want to dig a hole and crawl into it and stay there. Or crawl into bed and cover yourself up, and stay there, blocking out everything, that is too difficult to cope with at the time.
Or you go the other way, you get so enraged so angry.  YOu seek revenge, you want the other to feel the pain you are feeling.
Neither solution is positive. A person growing up with nothing but negativity, will be negative.
Only through exploring those negative feelings, bring them into the light, identifying the negative feeling, acknowledging the feelings,then learning to respond to those negative feelings if just like learning to walk all over again.  Thus with all my support groups, counselling sessions, and workshops this is what I am doing and have been doing. It take time to reprogram a life long pattern of thinking and feeling.

IN REALITY.... I LOVE YOU FOR TRYING TO UNDERSTAND .
Only those who have lived with mental illness, depression{MOOD DISORDERS} DISEASES, can and only be the ones who really know what it is like to live with a disease of the mind, that{ can} be debiliating to ones personality, one psychic, to allowing people to reach out to them, to copying with circumstances, I have submitted a lot of articles that I researched off the web
on the THREAD : DEPRESSION.
I have even describe some of my swings on that thread, and recently really describe some of my swings.
That is what I had this past week. I swinged in Moods.
Yes it is attitude.
I went from feeling like a DOOR MAT to being a PIT BULL, and because that shaken pop bottle released, and the anger released a pressure cooker value that was brewing in me, I believe it has been brewing for a very long time, possibility for two years or more.
THANK YOU BRENT FOR HELPING ME RELEASE THAT VALUE.
I got angry... in that angry I was able to work for a goal...even if it was not very rational,
Out of that angry sprewed things I have already apologized for , but I am not sorry for STANDING UP AND SPEAKING MY MIND.. JUST MAY BE, JUST MAYBE...what I did in anger, can be a turning point of self confidence, self worthlessness, and eliminate the lies that have been inside my spirit for the past 30 some years. That I can be able to tell that voice that I am worth something, I have something to offer, I can speak up and not have to shrink into a crying mess, I can use that negativity into something positive, I can look someone in the eye, and speak my mind assertively and not have to fear from getting beaten down.
In God's wisdom, God used this situation, for good.
God used Brent temperament, to change mine.
YES I AGREE WITH YOU AND BELFRY...GOD LOVES ME. GOD LOVES ME SO MUCH HE WANTS THE BEST FOR ME.
I needed to love myself...forgive myself...etc.....this again I am learning to do..It will take time...
Learning to love yourself, to take care of your self, to get your self physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually whole, after being SCARRED, RESCARRED, AND THOSE SCARS NEVER FULLY HEALING , OPENING AND BLEEDING .. then I will be able to finally HEAL WITH GOD HELP and with supportive FRIENDS AND SPIRITUAL FAMILY...
Alot may say..I pampered myself a lot...this is recovering which I have been doing for the last year.  I have only been just existing for the last 47 years...maybe not even then...
for the last year the path to recovery has been taken...journey on that path is not completed yet... I have come along way...with a few bumps in the road...I look back look how far I have come...yet I look forward I see  how far I still need to go....trying not to get discouraged.. by just looking at today.. Not yesterday and not tomorrow...today. It will take one step, one moment , one...one....one...

MARCIA I DO LOVE YOU FOR TRYING TO UNDERSTAND...
I DO LOVE YOU FOR CARING.
I DO LOVE  YOU FOR BEING A DEAR SISTER AND FRIEND.

[M2]

Lenore, by your own admission you state that your condition is not as simple as mine.  I can always attribute my behaviour to a sinful reaction, but yours depends on the chemical mental balance at the time.  I suggest that because we on the BB are unable to know when your balance is going to be off, that it may be best for you to read and not post on the BB for a time, and to communicate with your counsellors and mentors privately about what you read.  We cannot always be supportive and encouraging, because the nature of the BB is to openly toss opinions back and forth and there will definitely be times when all the planets (your emotional/menta/chemical state and a poster's opposing opinion) are lined up for disaster.  I, and I'm sure others too, want the best for you, but I cannot offer that depth of counselling and support on this BB.

That's all for now.
God bless,
Marcia

[LENORE]

Lenore, by your own admission you state that your condition is not as simple as mine.  I can always attribute my behaviour to a sinful reaction, but yours depends on the chemical mental balance at the time.  I suggest that because we on the BB are unable to know when your balance is going to be off, that it may be best for you to read and not post on the BB for a time, and to communicate with your counsellors and mentors privately about what you read.  We cannot always be supportive and encouraging, because the nature of the BB is to openly toss opinions back and forth and there will definitely be times when all the planets (your emotional/menta/chemical state and a poster's opposing opinion) are lined up for disaster.  I, and I'm sure others too, want the best for you, but I cannot offer that depth of counselling and support on this BB.

That's all for now.
God bless,
Marcia

Marcia again I will say I LOVE YOU FOR TRYING TO UNDERSTAND.

I am not saying I am without sin, believe me I have sinned, I have sinned this past week,
I know that when I reached eternity, I will probably get there by the skin of my teeth, all the hairs on my body burned away.
There are times I FEEL I am the worse Christian in the World.

When I am getting to that point where my emotions are getting the best of me, I will warn the people on BB as I did before by some sort of metaphor.i.e. SHAKEN POP BOTTLE.
I am not asking for counselling.
I just asking to be accepted.

I also dont want to be feared, shunned, avoided, because I suffered from a disease.
It is a disease just like a any other disease. I am not different, I .............
I just want to be accepted like every one else.

Support, encouragement, unconditional acceptance , & love, friendships, companionships, like everyone else is required.

I want to be listened to, opinions respected, treated as an equal, despite my circumstances, despite my financial situation, despite any illnesses, despite what comes out of my mouth, despite my sinfulness, who doesnt want that .
I am no different in these needs department than anyone else.

I shouldnt have to be anyone door mat, I should be able to feel strongly about an opinion, and should be able to express it, like everyone else, with out fear of ..........................rejections, humiliation, and ridiculed. I should be able to have misunderstandings with out being condemned.
I should be able to weak , and strong, sick and healthy, good, bad, angry, sad, happy, etc like everyone else. I should be able to feel free to explore those feelings with fellow members of God's family.
If I choose to be a example of the struggles of living with an illnesses that someone else is also living with... showing them the ups and downs, the blows and the victories. The cascade of every aspects that are and have affected me, that have drawn me closer to God, or when I have pulled away out of discouragement and doubt, and how he showed me a new lesson.
What is wrong with that?
I have always been honest about that I wear a mask. That I must pulled that mask off for God to work. I must over come the fear of vulnerability to expose what I have hidden behind that mask for so long. I believe that what went on this past week, was part of the process.
Doesnt the Bible tells us: That what goes on to one member of the Body, it affects the other members.Bad or good, sickness and health, richer or poorer. etc.
I was always aware how needy I was, because most of my life areas are out of control, while in one area I try to get control.  Maybe it is time to give all control over to God.
I know God wants me to be part of the body of believers, because I can get the nuturing from the body, they can share, as I share with them areas that become too much to bear.

So enclosing. Thank you for trying to understand...in your attempt to share my burden...with my struggle with my disease...sorry if I frighten you or others...or got you out of your comfort zone in regards to having to put up with the very public obvious symptoms display of the disease.
But I am not the disease.  I am a person who has to deal with a disease like Mood Disorder.

I DO LOVE YOU ALL FOR TRYING TO UNDERSTAND....

Lenore

[M2]

Lenore, I accept you and do not want to shun you and would like to maintain contact with you, but the BB is not the place for you right now.  You have suicidal tendencies, and set backs directly triggered by BB discussions.   Warnings are not going to be sufficient to stop a ball rolling, once it is already in motion.  Your shaken pop bottle can seriously injure yourself and others when it explodes.  We are not professional counsellors and will not be able to accurately heed a warning from you when it comes.

This is not a church setting but a BB (I know you alreday know that).  The various members of a body are weak &/or strong to varying degrees, and based on that the treatment differs.  Though we still have the same care for you as for the others, based on your condition and suicidal tendencies and set backs, it is best that you stay off the BB for now.

God bless,
Marcia

[vernecarty]

Hi Lenore:
What Marcia suggested is most wise in my humble opinioin.
Would you consider making an appointment with the pastor and elders of the church you are attending and sharing your recent struggles with them and asking them to pray for you?
The kind of support that you need cannot really be provided on a forum like this.
Marcia is right that this environment may in fact exacerbate some of the current difficulties you are experiencing.
In Christ,
Verne

[LENORE]

Lenore, I accept you and do not want to shun you and would like to maintain contact with you, but the BB is not the place for you right now.  You have suicidal tendencies, and set backs directly triggered by BB discussions.   Warnings are not going to be sufficient to stop a ball rolling, once it is already in motion.  Your shaken pop bottle can seriously injure yourself and others when it explodes.  We are not professional counsellors and will not be able to accurately heed a warning from you when it comes.

This is not a church setting but a BB (I know you alreday know that).  The various members of a body are weak &/or strong to varying degrees, and based on that the treatment differs.  Though we still have the same care for you as for the others, based on your condition and suicidal tendencies and set backs, it is best that you stay off the BB for now.

God bless,
Marcia

I will comply what is being ask, after this:

I understand it is fear , and fear of the unknown, fear you dont understand .

I have two questions:
Is there someone out there who is saying I WONT PARTICIPATE IF SHE IS ON BOARD.

Is this request, not parallelling certain reactions that was made to you when you left your local assembly, and they way they treated you differently, because you didnt think or act like they did any  more.

Dont say it is not the same.  The circumstances is different, but the reaction is the same.

I WONT BOTHER YOU AGAIN.


I already talk to my pastor.

ONE LESSON I HAVE LEARNED WHILE HERE, DO NOT BEAR YOUR SOUL , BECAUSE THEY WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT.

GOODBYE.

[moonflower2]

Lenore, by your own admission you state that your condition is not as simple as mine.  I can always attribute my behaviour to a sinful reaction, but yours depends on the chemical mental balance at the time.  I suggest that because we on the BB are unable to know when your balance is going to be off, that it may be best for you to read and not post on the BB for a time, and to communicate with your counsellors and mentors privately about what you read.  We cannot always be supportive and encouraging, because the nature of the BB is to openly toss opinions back and forth and there will definitely be times when all the planets (your emotional/menta/chemical state and a poster's opposing opinion) are lined up for disaster.  I, and I'm sure others too, want the best for you, but I cannot offer that depth of counselling and support on this BB.

That's all for now.
God bless,
Marcia

Lenore,

I agree with Marcia.

None of us on this BB is equipped for counselling anyone. Within limits, as a BB, this is more or less a "free for all" discussion area. That's what BB's are like.

My last post suggested that we can be our own worst enemies. No one has suggested that you are what you thought BAT said you were. That is how YOU took it. The negative way you look at yourself caused you to immediately think that BAT was thinking of you in the same way you think of yourself: Someone who is substandard in anyway one could think of.

When I was dealing with depression, someone suggested to me that I was feeling sorry for myself. It did not cure my depression, it was not the cause of my depression, but I was feeling sorry for myself, which is very common during depression.

It jolted me out of a rut I had gotten into, and I was able to continue my climb out of despair. There is always someone worse off than we are.

In thanking us for "Trying to understand", You are saying you are worse off more than we can possibly understand, that we really can't possibly understand what it is like for you to be where you are. We may not have been in the exact, down to the jot and tittle, situation, but some of us here have been where you are.

You have been talking about feelings and emotions. If I voiced how I felt, when I was growing up, I was told literally that I was "crazy". These were legitimate feelings of lack of love, which is very characteristic of alcoholic families. So the best you can do, is stuff your feelings and emotions down, because you are told they aren't real anyway. You are just crazy. Alcoholic families do not acknowledge feelings and strive at all costs to appear normal to everyone on the outside.  Assembly mentality reinforced this exact type of behavior.

I will challenge you in love,  Lenore, (without going into any past details) that we had a very similar upbringing, and that I do know where you are coming from. You also probably married into the same relationship that you grew up in.

A lot of the feelings that we feel now are a result of past feelings, and they are not necessarily real anymore, but we never learned how to deal with them when we were growing up.

You are much more intelligent than you think you are and are capable of more than you think you are.

Marcia had a good suggestion: For the time being, take what you read here to someone else who can help you to read it in a more positive way. I still do that sometimes in life situations (when I can't read someone's behavior) to get another opinion before I react  in a negative way. It may help to post here a little less often, and take things in at a slower pace (when you feel that the posts are referring to you). 

No one here is rejecting you. You are worth something to God because He sent the most precious thing to Him, to die for someone (you) who is the most precious thing to Him. He has you here for a reason.

It's a lifetime of learning.

Love,

Moonie