DAILY CHATTING ABOUT THINGS

[editor]

Wow Brent!

   I just got back into town and was surprised to read your rather cynical responses.   You don't directly respond to my post, but I get the idea that you have some strong issues with my views.

  I'm not sure who "bat" or "belfry" are, but assume that Matt from SWTE is paying a visit.

I'm BAT, and I believe Moonflower is Belfry.  Matt isn't here, as far as I can tell.  I even signed BAT's posts with my own name.

If you read carefully, you will see that I am not attacking your views, but making a general statement about the state of the BB.  Lenore wasn't treated as an equal, she was treated as if she was substandard.  Case in point, your standing up to me here.

I don't blame you for doing it, but you wouldn't do it to Lenore. 

You probably missed all the posts where I had a mental illness, but I shouldn't get much flak from those, I was needy, which means I don't have to live up to the same standards as other people.

Hopefully, if you are able to sort out the goings on over the last two weeks, you will see that the point I was trying to make with the post you commented on is that the current mentality on certain aspects of the BB is a real problem for those in post-assembly "recovery."


Again, this was spread out over several posts, but the general thought pattern goes like this:

1.)We were spiritually abused in The Assembly
2.)We need to recognize that, understand it, and learn from it in order to move on to the abundant life that God has for us.
3.)The BB, and the discussions and insight shared is helpful for those who were in the Assembly.

Well, that's the problem.  Most people agree on 1 and 2, but I don't buy number 3.  Yes, it was totally usefull at one time.  It could still be usefull, but I see that we have fallen in to a really bad rut.  A person like Lenore, who is a needy victim, is given all sorts of leeway, deference and tolerance...because she's a victim.  This encourages her to stay that way.

Much of the emphasis is simply reiterating how bad GG was, and how we are wounded pilgrims.  Yes, GG was evil, and yes, he hurt people.  However, many of the dozen or so people who are here have become the spiritual equivalent of Lenore....their identity is "wounded pilgrim."  This is their support group. 

I find this alarming.  I promise you that others see it too, and most people just consider it negative and draining. 

Yes, it's progress to go from calling George "The Lord's Servant," to understanding that he was a fraud.  That's good. 
It's also good to understand that much of what we built in George's service is useless, and should be abandoned.
It's not good to dwell on that, and re-hash it all the time.  It keeps us from moving on and up.

I'm not a wounded pilgim anymore.  I have my own problems now, and George isn't a part of them.

I hate to think of how depressing it would be if I blamed my problems on George all the time.  Let's not keep the pus oozing with our support group here.  That's what they do with Lenore, and people like her. 

I don't think Ex-assembly is a good identity for people. 

I could say much more, but don't think for a second that this is personal against you Mark, it isn't.

Brent

[Mark C.]

Thanks Brent,

  I was getting the wrong impression from my quick reading of this thread and I appreciate very much your explanation.

  I'm heading out early AM to visit the Grand Canyon for the week and I will answer this last post of yours more fully when I return next weekend (Sindy and I are taking my Mom to see the Canyon, as she has never seen it).

  You raise some very important points, and ones that I look forward to trying to answer.

                                                 God Bless,  Mark C.

[vernecarty]

Much of the emphasis is simply reiterating how bad GG was, and how we are wounded pilgrims.  Yes, GG was evil, and yes, he hurt people.  However, many of the dozen or so people who are here have become the spiritual equivalent of Lenore....their identity is "wounded pilgrim."  This is their support group. 

I find this alarming.  I promise you that others see it too, and most people just consider it negative and draining. 

Yes, it's progress to go from calling George "The Lord's Servant," to understanding that he was a fraud.  That's good. 
It's also good to understand that much of what we built in George's service is useless, and should be abandoned.
It's not good to dwell on that, and re-hash it all the time.  It keeps us from moving on and up.

Brent

Let me suggest another perspective.
After the documented conduct of George Geftakys prior to his starting his assembly "ministry", there is no possible way a man who had engaged in the conduct he did should have been let anywhere near a pulpit.
My suspicion is that no one did, so he built his own- from scratch.
Let us fact it folks. The rise of this apostate to prominence was due to the silence and derilection of duty of those who should have been sounding the alarm.
For some of us, this BB has never been about recovery. It was about sounding the alarm.
Let me ask you folk a question: Is there ever going to come a time when condemnation of what went on under this man's aegis ever becomes pase?
I guess the folk who knew Geftakys early on thought so.
 Is it not the reason the BB was started in the first place?
Don't tell me he is too old to do any further damage. As long as he breathes, he is dangerous.
He has now reproduced himself in others who are bent on continuing his legacy. Who will warn the unwary?
It seems to me that is our responsibility whether on this forum or som eother venue. Are we going to repeat that mistake?
The fire still burns...
Verne

[editor]

Let me suggest another perspective.
After the documented conduct of George Geftakys prior to his starting his assembly "ministry", there is no possible way a man who had engaged in the conduct he did should have been let anywhere near a pulpit.
My suspicion is that no one did, so he built his own- from scratch.
Let us fact it folks. The rise of this apostate to prominence was due to the silence and derilection of duty of those who should have been sounding the alarm.
For some of us, this BB has never been about recovery. It was about sounding the alarm.
Let me ask you folk a question: Is there ever going to come a time when condemnation of what went on under this man's aegis ever becomes pase?
I guess the folk who knew Geftakys early on thought so.
 Is it not the reason the BB was started in the first place?
Don't tell me he is too old to do any further damage. As long as he breathes, he is dangerous.
He has now reproduced himself in others who are bent on continuing his legacy. Who will warn the unwary?
It seems to me that is our responsibility whether on this forum or som eother venue. Are we going to repeat that mistake?
The fire still burns...
Verne

Ah, yes.

Warning others is paramount.  I think it's best done by writing a well thought out, well researched essay and putting it on GA.com. 

I don't need to be reminded how bad it was, I know it was bad.  I want to move on past that into other things, however. 

I think there should be a permanent presence on the Internet, warning people about George.  However, I don't think that it's healthy for the BB to be used as a place where people sound warnings and re-hash everything.

I DO think it's a place for discussion about certain topics, like some of the one's that are going on now.  What I worry about is the perpetual victim, permanent recovery mentality.

Brent

[moonflower2]

I think a more fitting name for "wounded pilgrims" at this point would be Pilgrims Progressed.

We all process information at a different rate, change at a different rate, etc, and I don't know that anyone really is using this BB as a support group.

Some of us have been doubly beaten down and need the reminder that we weren't crazy, or substandard, etc. The things that we said were going on, really were going on." It wasn't just the way that WE were looking at things.

Some of us Progressed Pilgrims were not in as visible a place as Brent, the GG family, etc., and the wrongs were more hidden and subtle. Don't argue with this one.

This BB and its discussions is a reminder that we knew that there was something wrong and we were right, not crazy or paranoid, or spiritually derelict. 

As far as Pilgrim Lenore, she is just as strong as the rest of us. Sometimes words can paint a picture that paints a thousand words, that can be more easily read than heard.

[summer007]

Verne, Your perspective and choice of words is unsurpassed. "The Fire still burns" Thanks. Summer

[summer007]

Brent, I agree with you wounds heal and people eventually leave the hospital. Although not all injurys are not alike you may have only stubbed your toe 1-2 years and someone else may have broken they're back 10+yrs. How many wounded soldiers are coming off the battle-field everyday, not that many. But I want to Thank-You for this service and resource it has really been helpful to know what I was involved in. The most striking thing for me was to admit I was really involved in a cultish group. I did'nt want to believe it, that I was really sucked in, part of that no-dought is my own pride I can see that now." Hey we did'nt do this in the Baptist church".. I agree this BB should take a positive turn afterall "The Lord shall rise with Healing in His wings" Malachi 4:2 and once your healed you don't want to hang- out at the hospital, unless your helping or visiting the sick.  Thanks for sounding the Alarm. Summer.

[summer007]

I meant to add it's fun to discuss certain topics too! I had a small army of kids come in from surfing for breakfast when I was trying to post. Anyways here's a good article with a book reference, hope the link goes through if you have to put it in yourself it's worth it...here goes http://www.slate.com/id/2118313/?GT1=6443#continuearticle          Summer. p.s. no need to fall on your sword!

[vernecarty]

I got a call from the Gideons today. Those are the guys that leave all those Bibles in hotel rooms. I guess our pastor recommended me as a "serious layman" and they are wondering if I would like to get involved with their ministry. I kinda like those guys but don't know too much about them. Unfortunately we are going to be in Orlando durign the informational dinner I was invited to so I will have to get with them later. Anybody done any work with the Gideons?
Verne

[summer007]

Any Geology majors out there? Does anyone know what happens to the Earth after having an unprecedented 150 millions barrels of oil pumped out of it everyday, of course we only need about 84 milloin barrells here in the U.S. and alot of it's is surplus. We are learning the global warming is from the refining process of these millions of barrels everyday unsurpassed in production. I think the earth is being systematically destroyed by this and perhaps after all this pumping of oil the earth has to shift a little bit causing great earth-quakes and tsunamisi as a result. When has production ever been this high? What do we have to compare this to? The major tsunami was vey close to the O.P.E.C. countries. How much oil is ther anyway, they say they can only keep up for 40 years before it's depleted. Has anyone studied this? Is the oil crucial in the layers of the earth ? Could the wells run dry?  Summer.