QUESTION OF THE DAY/OPINIONS WELCOME

[shinchy]

I do think other factors, such as being a non-conformist or simply being against "organized" religion," were other factors involved. Ironically, once non-conformists were in, they soon succumbed to the cookie cutter.

Shin,  In retrospect, that period of my life in which I prided myself in being nonconformist was largely spent conforming to one style or another of nonconformity.  When I got to the assembly phase of my life, I think I was already "cookie-cut" & half-baked.  GG just had to finish me & add some icing...

al

It's funny how various non-conformist movements required some kind of conformity - hippies, punk rock post-Sex Pistols, and goth.

However, I think there were a lot of people who joined because they either did not fit in with their church or did not like the patterns set forth by their church even if they had no doctrinal problems with it. I think the Assembly sounded very unconventional and radical, not dealing with the trappings of an institution, which can appeal to someone who is on the unconventional side. The Assembly, once somone was entrenched, was soon revealed to have conventions of its own and was just as organized, if not more, than any "organized" religion.

Feel free to whack me on the head with a ruler if I'm not making sense.  

[Joe Sperling]

Delila---

Guess you missed the analogy.  A car that is a "lemon" is definitely NOT a good thing. But whether George's teaching was garbage or lemon juice, the point I was trying to make is that the problem was/is George, not the Bible or Christianity.

--Joe

[delila]

Delila---

Guess you missed the analogy.  A car that is a "lemon" is definitely NOT a good thing. But whether George's teaching was garbage or lemon juice, the point I was trying to make is that the problem was/is George, not the Bible or Christianity.

--Joe

no Joe, I didn't miss your point.  I suspect the source of G's teaching (the bible), I suspect anyone who says: God's will is... do it.  I suspect the bible itself is not the 'word or God', the be all, the end all of what God (if he exists) has to say.
And I give my head a shake that anyone having been through assembly experience does not look more critically at the basic assumptions that protect the patriarchy (which again, I do not consider healthy).
d

[lenore]

Delila---

Guess you missed the analogy.  A car that is a "lemon" is definitely NOT a good thing. But whether George's teaching was garbage or lemon juice, the point I was trying to make is that the problem was/is George, not the Bible or Christianity.

--Joe

no Joe, I didn't miss your point.  I suspect the source of G's teaching (the bible), I suspect anyone who says: God's will is... do it.  I suspect the bible itself is not the 'word or God', the be all, the end all of what God (if he exists) has to say.
And I give my head a shake that anyone having been through assembly experience does not look more critically at the basic assumptions that protect the patriarchy (which again, I do not consider healthy).
d

AUGUST 6: AT 7:29 PM EST:

HELLO D.

You are hurting. I can understand that I share that pain.
You are down on men. I can understand that I have experience that type of pain, anger, and mis trust.
You are questioning the existence of God, the Bible, etc. I can understand that, I have done some prodigal time myself.
It is good to question. Even Job and Solomon questioned God.
God expects this as well. In time he will give you the answers you are searching for. I am still waiting on some answers my self.  I tease people, I have a list of questions for him when I get to heaven. But like Job, God will probably give me the same answer he gave Job.

Dont throw out the baby with the bath water.

Remember the culture and times when the BIBLE were written. It was written by men, inspired by God, who is a male figure. We couldnt call him Daddy if he wasnt a Guy could we.

Your Bible teaching experience and maybe your upbringing with Fathers was a strict disciplinary, no mercy type role model.
Yet get into a Women Bible study group. Explore the love that Jesus had for women.

In a culture were women didnt have any status, could be divorced at a drop of hat, yet were in bondage into a marriage if they were being abused, etc.
There are still many cultures that have this type of bible times issues even today.

We are western women, who have been brought up to be independent, educationed, career oriented, supermom, super women, do it all. Which is alot of barn yard fertilizer in my way of thinking.  
Remember in the last century, western women have been given the right to vote, right to be elected to government, right  for equal pay. etc.

So we naturally want equal representation in the Bible. I have question, the issue of Paul, were women are to be quiet , and not teach men.
Well may be I am have more knowledge than some of the men in a discussion group.
Women who have been given the door of knowledge should not be expected to be quiet, but to share and learn along side.

D. I know. I been there, I am not trying to brush aside your hurt. Only to let you know. I have been there too.

Your right in one way, but remember Jesus compassion, passion, and feelings for women he met on his ministry. It is so much different that what was taught in GG enviroment. But if you can embrace Luke and really seek out Jesus with the women he came across. You will see he is a loving Husband, Brother, Friend, and Saviour. God is a Loving Daddy, who you can crawl up upon his knee , he would put his arms around you, hug you, you can cry into his chest, pour out all that hurt inside. I have done it on several time, I know I can approach the Throne of God, because he is not just my Father. He is my Daddy. A daddy I have never really had or could approach in this fashion. It is something I had to learn that I can approach him like a child. A child that only a Daddy can fix a hurt. I didnt have a Daddy like that.

Think about it D. okay. He isnt just a mean old cranky judge that is going to throw you in to the pit because of a human mistake.  He wants to fix it like a Daddy.

Love you D.

Lenore

[delila]

Dear Lenore,
The image of a kind Daddy is not something I buy, sorry, it makes as much sense to me as Santa Clause though both are longed for by every little girl and taught by our systems of commerce and TV commercials.  And sadly, Christianity is the same pile to me, or should I say box.  It's like a grab bag thing, a closed, sealed bag that has a dollar amount on it (and it ain't free, those of us who paid know it COSTS) and once you buy it, then you can open it and find out what you bought.  AFter that, you're stuck with it, you can give it away but you don't get your money back.  Only grab bags make no promises, do they?  Grab bags don't promise a ticket to somewhere, a shelter in the arms of the almighty, peace and rest, joy and God's other blessings.  Grab bags don't tell you what to believe, where to sleep and with whom not to 'sleep', grab bags don't condemn either, don't judge, don't say: This is the way, walk ye in it.  But if you walk away from God disappointed, then what?  YOu didn't believe hard enough.  YOu didn't trust the Lord, you called God a liar, you played harlot.  And then where are you?  Repent, right?  And then find the trough just as empty as it was before.  But go away, invest in yourself, lay down on a blanket underneath a blue sky and listen to the birds, take pictures of wild flowers, play with your children, forget the demands of the almighty and life makes sense.  There is peace.  There is joy, moments of absolute clarity, there is healing.  Apart from the bible, apart from the prayers even.  Apart from the eternal bowing and numb knees and nites of prayer and confession of that all abounding sin, apart from all of that, there is freedom too.  And no God saying: Because I said so, and no hyperlinks to attach to prove my point either.  And rather than showing (vainly trying anyway) those who still trust the bible despite the fact that the assembly was a sham, that the society we live in is set up to support the sham that the assembly was, complete with its abuses of power and reliance on the bible to justify its ends and its means, apart from all of that, there are greater truths that we blind ourselves to if we march on simply with 'reformed' views about Christianity.  That is a bloody long sentence!  And I'm not sure that, no, I know that I'm not being clear.  But here's a new question:

What are the most dangerous: Cracks in our Western Culture that may spell the end of civilization as we know it?  
I'll venture one:  our health care system with its reliance on drugs and invasive therapies rather than efforts to educate its citizens in healthy living.
d

[lenore]

 :DGood Evening D.

Quote from Delila
""""""
And sadly, Christianity is the same pile to me, or should I say box.  It's like a grab bag thing, a closed, sealed bag that has a dollar amount on it (and it ain't free, those of us who paid know it COSTS) and once you buy it, then you can open it and find out what you bought.  AFter that, you're stuck with it, you can give it away but you don't get your money back.  Only grab bags make no promises, do they?  Grab bags don't promise a ticket to somewhere, a shelter in the arms of the almighty, peace and rest, joy and God's other blessings"""""
 
Christianity is free. Accepting Jesus as our Saviour is free.
It is the Christian walk that where we put legs on our faith.


"""""
Grab bags don't tell you what to believe, where to sleep and with whom not to 'sleep', grab bags don't condemn either, don't judge, don't say: This is the way, walk ye in it.  But if you walk away from God disappointed, then what?  YOu didn't believe hard enough.  YOu didn't trust the Lord, you called God a liar, you played harlot.  And then where are you?  Repent, right?  And then find the trough just as empty as it was before.""""""""""""""'


D. I am at a lost for words.  I am trying to find some way to say I understand, in a way that will not offend you.
You dont have to do all the above. You know that. That is putting yourself under the law.
God doesnt want you under the bondage of the law.

God doesnt really condemn us either, he is saddened, disappointed, and yes discipline us. But Jesus is advocating for us at the right hand of the Father, Holy spirit is guiding us.
and teaching us what pleases the Father.
If we take one day or ten years to allow God to mold us in the way he wants us, then God is a patient God to wait for us to say , okay, God I cannot do it alone.


""""""""""""
But go away, invest in yourself, lay down on a blanket underneath a blue sky and listen to the birds, take pictures of wild flowers, play with your children, forget the demands of the almighty and life makes sense.  There is peace.  There is joy, moments of absolute clarity, there is healing.  Apart from the bible, apart from the prayers even.  Apart from the eternal bowing and numb knees and nites of prayer and confession of that all abounding sin, apart from all of that, there is freedom too.  And no God saying: Because I said so, and no hyperlinks to attach to prove my point either.  And rather than showing (vainly trying anyway) those who still trust the bible despite the fact that the assembly was a sham, that the society we live in is set up to support the sham that the assembly was, complete with its abuses of power and reliance on the bible to justify its ends and its means, apart from all of that, there are greater truths that we blind ourselves to if we march on simply with 'reformed' views about Christianity""""""""""""""'

 :)D. we can praise God with his creation. He create us ,He created Creation. So he wants us to enjoy creation. find the beauty of the sky, of children, of flowers and meadows, of the stars in the sky.  We can praise and worship God when we are in His midst among his creation.
You right. We can enjoy God in all of these.

God has given us his beauty to surround ourselves in them, to hide ourselves in them, to mediate with in them, to find solitude  with in them. Of course to spiritually heal with in the beauty of God creation.  THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS.

It would surprise you, I havent prayed on my knees in years, I cant, I would never get up if I did.  The best time in prayers I have with God, is in the bath tub. That is my best time.

I read my Bible and all my devotional books, I use to read them in bed. I would be a night owl, read and read and read.
Now I read the books while sitting on the couch.
God doesnt care where you read your bible, where you have your devotion, how you have your devotion.

God just want communication with us. By putting ourselves under the bondage of the law of a man, of where, when, how and what to do to have our own private time of worship with our Saviour. That is not a willing participation, it is a chore, that can make us resentful.  God want a willing partner in our love for him. Nothing more, and nothing less. Just our love for him.
God will honour you in what ever type of communication you have with him.

D. you are making perfect sense to me. Because I have been there.

Take your time to heal okay.  God is willing to share your pain.
I still believe Love of God, can put him in a Daddy figure.
Because I believe in that type of Love, I have peace with my relationship with my heavenly Father.
My relationship is still a two step forward and one step back type of a waltz. And there are still rooms where I refuse to let God into. But I know he is waiting for me.
He is not rushing me. THe decision I make whether Christian or not, it is between me and Jesus. He will tell me the right way to go.
D. Maybe you need to stop listening to the external advises of GG ministry. Let Jesus guide you only. Jesus way is alot easier to swallow.

D. Just keep hanging on to one thought. JESUS LOVES YOU NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY, NO MATTER HOW YOU FEEL, NOT MATTER WHAT YOU DO. JESUS WILL LOVE YOU.

love ya.
Lenore

[lenore]

 

DOES ANY ONE KNOW WHAT A 'SEA SQUIRT ' IS?
DO YOU KNOW WHAT THEY EAT AFTER THEY IMPLANT THEMSELVES ON TO CORAL?


I learned this little bit of ocean life cycle during the Sunday Evening Service , last week.

So I will check in a couple of days to see if any of you
have the correct answers.......


You will be amazed.

[moonflower2]

their brains!
Is there a moral lesson in this for us?  

[moonflower2]

When we become too comfortable, we stagnate and stop using our brains?

When we find a place we like, we stop becoming functional and just eat and sleep?

When we find peace and are one with God we don't need our brains?

Just trying to figure out how the pastor used this in his sermon.   Am I on the right track?

[moonflower2]

Hi Lenore,

I really am interested in how your pastor fit the sea squirt lesson into his sermon.

I had a biology class a few years ago and it was interesting to see the spiritual priniples behind so many of the things that we learned. Everything is from the Master Creator's hand and it is amazing.

[lenore]

 :)Pastor  B spoke on the sea squirt again tonight.
It was on evening service Sept. 19th.
The title of the Evening Service was called
WHAT IS EATING YOU.

After the sea squirt attaches itself to coral, it eats its brain.
It remains on that coral.
Since most of us in the congregation didnt know what a sea squirt was, we were surprised at the quirks of nature.

It is an eliminate of surprise in our lives, that God nature of great truths.
Blessing of life is surprise. Add riches to Life. We werent expecting surprises. Even though there are bad surprises.

The sea squirt gives up the possibility of surprise. It gives up its vitality.

Christians can be like the sea squirt, stays in one place. So entrench . Given up our vitality.

Jesus can look at us human that he saved, then wonder about the strange creature that gets stuck in one place.
We must be able to obtain the vitality of surprise.

Example: the story of the Samaritan Woman, was surprises when Jesus talked to her. A Jewish man talking to her.
Jesus conversation with her , surprised her so much that she became excited  and shared  it  with all the town's people.
It was a wonderful experience for her.
One of the surprises is that Jesus confirms to her that that he is the Christ. John 4:26

Our encounter with Jesus
Life can be full of surprises.
Reality of the Christian Life should be for the innocents, with the element of surprise, to remind us of the newness, the wonder of new life in Christ.

Nicodemus: The surprise of the revelation that you must be born again message, to a season teacher of the law.

Zaccheus: Surprised that Jesus stopped at his tree.
Surprised that Jesus asked to go to his house for tea.

Element of wonder we need to keep  

John 4:27: Jesus ministry to the woman , was the way it happened. It was a surprise to the woman for this man to ask for a drink of water.
She responded to Jesus as He ministered to him.

Surprises is the truth of the Christian life.

We have no way to know how the Spirit of God will work in our lifes.
We can reevaluate the true nature of the calling being lead by the Spirit.

Elements of Surprise: Who we are able to minister to and when.

The water conversation of Jesus to the woman.
our example to make ourselves available and aware that we are ministers of the gospel.

John 4:31-34  Why are we able to minister.
Do not despise the elements of surprise.

Jesus food was to do the will of his father. It gave him energy and power , what he needed for ministry. God will is vital in ministry. We need to know God will for us. We need to renew our minds by knowing God's will , knowing God is leading. To minister knowing it is God's will.

We get into trouble when we dont go in God's Will.
God's will is why we are able to minister. Outside of God's will, we cannot accomplish anything.

When we are able to Minister. John  4: 35-38
Dont do it alone. We dont know when we will be in a wonderful situation to minister others to the Lord.

What is Eating You?

Spiritual Decay

Insachable Desire to do God's WIll.

 Sea Squirt is an example of Spiritual Decay. We lose our vitality, our mobility, our usefulness to God.

[lenore]

 :DOctober 7th 12:26 am

Having complete the third ALPHA session on
CHALLENGING LIFESTYLE

On the Beautitudes (Beautiful Attitudes)

I thought I would share the questions that were discussion in my discussion group that I am co facilatating with Pastor B.

Passage: Matthew 5:17-20

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
I tell you the truth,
until heaven and earth disappear; not the smallest letter,
not the least stroke of pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commandments will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

THE QUESTIONS:
1. Why do many people feel that the Old Testament is all the time "before God became a Christian"?

2. Do you tend to treat the New Testament as more important than the Old?
Do you think this matters?

3. ---

4. In what way is Jesus's fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies more than just doing what they predicted?

5. How does Jesus "reveal the full depth" of the meaning of Old Testament law?

6. Can you identify the three ways in which Jesus fulfilled Old Testament law? How do these apply to you?


Some of these I realize you may need to hear the  study series.
Other Passages mentioned.
-John 10:35/Matt.19:4-5/Matt.1:1-17/John 5:39-40/
Matt 1:22;2:5-6,17,23; 4:14-16/
Luke 24:27/Exodus 20/Deut 6:24/ Lev.19:2/
Matt.22:37-40/Rom.3:21-26/Rom 8:1-2/

[lenore]

 :DGood Afternoon Everyone on this October 15th day at 1:31 pm Arnprior Time, This is a beautiful afternoon with the sun shining. The trees are beautiful display of the God's handiwork of red, gold and orange. The red leaves are so vibrant that you, you hope that this type of display and weather will stay for a very long time. God has given us a beautiful autumn. I have never seen a more beautiful and warm fall that we are having right now.


I tried my questions on another thread so I am trying it again on this thread.

What is your view point on HALLOWEEN/ALL SAINTS DAY.?

What was some of your favourite memories of childhood if you went trick or treating.?

I know the negative spiritual placement on Halloween. But for my kids it was just a night to go get CANDY.

Where I live I could get about 200 kids at the door all looking for one thing. It is a day to dress up and get CANDY.

Does any of your church, offer substititue for Halloween.
Do they have costume parties minus certain themes of costumes.

I WOULD THINK THE TOPIC OF HALLOWEEN WOULD BE GENERATING A GREAT DEAL OF DISCUSSION. A little friendly discussion on a topic never hurts anyone. RIGHT?

I remember when I was about 10 years old. I lived in a small , real small village. Named Sand Point. During that time, the population grew in the summer time, because it was mostly cottage area.
There were some permanent residents on the main road.
On this Halloween I remember going out trick or treating among the neighbours. I was wearing one of my Dad work pants and shirt, and an old straw hat.  We were walking to the nearest neighbour the Blackburns. I remember the snow drifts  coming up the fence, the ditched looked like a wall of snow. It was a cold night too.Your winter outwear being under your costume.  SandPoint is a mile long from one end of the village to the other. And the house were are all one one side of the road. The train tracks were on the other. The cottages were below the t rain tracks near the water.
I remember carrying a pillow case .
Then we will get into the car and head for Braeside to see the relatives , so the grandparents can see the costumes.
I remember the home made jaw breaker brown sugar fudge my Grandmother M. would make. And the apples, candy apples.
There was very little store bought candy.  It was mostly homemade.
Or peanuts still in the shell.  Candykisses that was soft or really hard to chew .
Even though the childhood excitement of going out to get the CANDY, it is a shame that the homemade stuff that we use to be able to get , cannot be given anymore, because of the danger some two legged nut gets a kick out of harming people.
It is childhood memories like that, that keeps us young at times.

The last couple of years I have not given out candy. I have just shut my lights off. I was lucky I was working last year.
This year is the church service in the evening.
Now I make the homemade brown sugar fudge. It can be for anytime of the year. I use to make it for my Father for Christmas, now that he is diabetic. Candy is the last thing we adults need.
Home made Candy is still better tasting than the store bought stuff.

I have gotten off topic.
HALLOWEEN!!!!!!!!!!

[outdeep]

When my oldest was in Kindergarten (and I was fresh out of the Assembly), I walked him up to Fern Drive school which is just behind where Cornerstone Academy was meeting.  At that time, I still at that time bought into the Assembly and Evangelical idea that Halloween is a satanic holiday so we should not have anything to do with it.

I remember sitting on the little bench outside the classroom and a little girl dressed as a princess sat down on the same bench.  I looked over at her costume and thought, "what is this force of evil that I am supposed to be taking a holy stand against?"

After that, I pretty much lightened up and my kids has done the Trick Or Treat thing without any incident.

I do love this time of year.  Now that I live in an area with real seasons (unlike California warm and hot with a tad bit of rain) people flock to this area to see the beautiful leaves that are at its peak right about now.    Scary things don't do much for me, but I do enjoy the crisp, cool air of the fall season.

Growing up, I remember many times going trick-or-treating with my friends, going to the house where they always did something wierd (stick their hand out of the mail box, give a foil-wrapped carrots instead of candy, etc.)  One year, a car came by and all my friends hid for cover.  I didn't know why until the egg hit me.

What do folks think of the "scare evangelism" techniques some churches use today?

[Joe Sperling]

On Halloween I am usually moved to do some really evil stuff. I turn on the television(I can hear the gasps) and watch Andy Griffith. Then we play cards(please forgive me), and  afterwards we dance to '50's rock music(I know, that's really crossing the line). Then I might dress up like Herman Munster(the satanic overtones are overwhelming I know) and hand out candies to the little kiddies who come up and say "Twick or tweet!! hee hee!!"
dressed up like the Little Mermaid or Dracula( It's unbelievable a parent would allow this--the kid will wind up drinking blood one day for sure!!). Then after that the mother's will say "Don't forget to say Thank You!!"
in their Halloween ritualistic manner.  And the little pagans will shout "Thank you mistewr!!!!" in their baby talk ghoulish manner. Then they'll run off giggling to the next house and perform the same ritual. It's all so horrifying it makes my blood run cold.

--Joe