Girlie-men

[Arthur]

Hey did you guys catch this?  This is too funny!  

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040719/D83TJ8080.html

These democrats are pathetic.  "He called me names, I'm telling."  Big sissies.  They ARE girlie-men.
And to call that homophobic...just plain stupid.  Did you know that the state of California's legislature has a five-member Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Caucus?  That makes me sick.

Arthur

[M2]

Hey did you guys catch this?  This is too funny!  

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040719/D83TJ8080.html

These democrats are pathetic.  "He called me names, I'm telling."  Big sissies.  They ARE girlie-men.
And to call that homophobic...just plain stupid.  Did you know that the state of California's legislature has a five-member Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Caucus?  That makes me sick.

Arthur

King Arthur et al,

I read the article.  The democrats are justified in their reaction.  After all Schwarzenegger hurt them to the core; he called them a name.

Seriously though, it is interesting how those democrats side-tracked from the 'real' issue that Schwarzenegger was addressing.  This all sounds sooo familiar.

quote--
Schwarzenegger dished out the insult at a rally Saturday as he claimed Democrats were delaying the budget by catering to special interests.

"If they don't have the guts to come up here in front of you and say, 'I don't want to represent you, I want to represent those special interests, the unions, the trial lawyers ... if they don't have the guts, I call them girlie men," Schwarzenegger said to the cheering crowd at a mall food court in Ontario.
--end-quote

I like that Schwarzenegger guy!  He's got guts.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[delila]

I'm not gay but.... (only mention because I think it matters -- in perspective -- that I'm not just sticking up for 'my own' as it were - b/c I gather that you don't think much of them and what they strive for - personally, as long as there are no children in their bedrooms when they have sex -  as is a Major problem in the Heterosexual World - then I don't care)

I'd like to take issue with Gay bashing - not b/c the bible isn't clear on what it says, but b/c I don't hear anyone on this board EVER questioning what the bible says, why's that?  Because George didn't?  What about the power structure that the bible lays out, we questioned the assembly, but the bible holds true for everyone?  is there no one out there who was once part of the assembly and no longer holds the bible itself as 'gospel'?  

We have problems in our society but I don't think how men do each other is one of our problems (unless of course men are buggering children which is a Big Problem in both Canada and the US by the way, largely under reported b/c it's done by dear old dad or mommy's boy friend.  Did anyone see that 60 minutes document. on Pornography?  I got a good two minutes of it and then shut  off the TV and went to be crying and lie awake most of the night crying.  You want to cry about somethin' honey, cry about that.
delila

[Mark C.]

Hi Deilia!

  I am responding to the part of your post that wonders whether there are any here on the BB who now reject the Bible because they see the Assembly and the Bible as being similar evils.

  I know for a fact that there are some who have left the Assembly who share your views on the Bible.  For myself, I came to understand that it is very easy to misuse the Bible and this is what false religious groups do.

  When some Samaritans rejected Jesus and His disciples  James and John asked the question, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from Heaven to destroy them?!" Jesus response, "He rebuked them!"

  Jesus' desire was not to take control over and judge men, but He came expressly to save and bless them!  It cost Jesus His life, which He freely gave for us!

  False religious groups, like the Assembly, do seek to control and manipulate lives to meet their own needs, and will use the Bible to defend their doing so, but I read the exact opposite in the Bible regarding what God wants in our relationships.   Over, and over again the Bible says that self sacraficial love, out of pure motives, is to be the goal of life in Christ.

   I received Christ and believed in the Bible before I got into the Assembly, and as such, I knew that there was a real God and that the Bible was His word.  It has been a difficult, but blessed, task to understand who Jesus really is and to help those whom were kept captive by a distorted image of Him.

   Jesus is a King (to mention Arthur's post) and he chose a crown of thorns instead to save the most evil perverts on this sick and sad world.   Again, He does not desire the judgment of the wicked, and expressly died to accomplish this goal.


   Can't you love a God like this?  He is many times worthy of all of our praise!!!!  If I were a king of this world I would cast my crown at His feet and revel in His mercy!

   For those that reject His loving invitation their desire to do so will be honored and they will dwell outside of God's eternity.

                         God Bless,  Mark C.

[lenore]

 :)Mark, I totally agree with you.

The Bible and its teachings have been around a lot longer than GG and his teachings.

Men may fail us and disappoint us, But God will never fail us or disappoint us.

Mark's quote:""

Jesus is a King (to mention Arthur's post) and he chose a crown of thorns instead to save the most evil perverts on this sick and sad world.  Again, He does not desire the judgment of the wicked, and expressly died to accomplish this goal.""""


 
JESUS KINGSHIP  is something better to look forward to than what this world of our is dishing out.

I am looking forward to it.

Lenore

[shinchy]

I'm not gay but.... (only mention because I think it matters -- in perspective -- that I'm not just sticking up for 'my own' as it were - b/c I gather that you don't think much of them and what they strive for - personally, as long as there are no children in their bedrooms when they have sex -  as is a Major problem in the Heterosexual World - then I don't care)

I'd like to take issue with Gay bashing - not b/c the bible isn't clear on what it says, but b/c I don't hear anyone on this board EVER questioning what the bible says, why's that?  Because George didn't?  What about the power structure that the bible lays out, we questioned the assembly, but the bible holds true for everyone?  is there no one out there who was once part of the assembly and no longer holds the bible itself as 'gospel'?  

We have problems in our society but I don't think how men do each other is one of our problems (unless of course men are buggering children which is a Big Problem in both Canada and the US by the way, largely under reported b/c it's done by dear old dad or mommy's boy friend.  Did anyone see that 60 minutes document. on Pornography?  I got a good two minutes of it and then shut  off the TV and went to be crying and lie awake most of the night crying.  You want to cry about somethin' honey, cry about that.
delila

Well said, Delila. I don't go on this board much but the gay bashing that shows up from time to time bothers me. The liberal-bashing as well.

[David Mauldin]

Delilah,  I couldn't agree more. (Because I will get slammed for posting this) I would have e-mailed you but you are not posted!

[lenore]

 :)July 23rd at 10:19 pm

READ ROMAN 1 from verse 18 to the end of the chapter:

TRANSLATION: THE MESSAGE:
But God's angry displeasure erupts as acts of human mistrust and wrongdoing and lying accumulate, as people try to put a shroud over truth. But the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can't see:eternal power, for instance, and he mystery of his divine being. SO NOBODY HAS A GOOD EXCUSE. What happened was this: PEOPLE KNEW GOD PERFECTLY WELL, but when they didn't treat him like God, refusing to worship him, they trivialized themselves into silliness and confustion so that there was neither sense nor direction left in their lives. They pretended to know it all, but were illiterate regarding life. THEY TRADED THE GLORY OF GOD WHO HOLDS THE WHOLE WORLD IN HIS HANDS for cheap figurines you can buy at any roadside stand.
     So God said, in effect. "If that's what you want, that's what you get."It wasn't long before they were living in a pigpen, smeared with filth, filthy inside and out. And all this because THEY TRADED THE TRUE GOD FOR A FAKE GOD, and WORSHIPED THE GOD THEY MADE INSTEAD OF THE GOD WHO MADE THEM--THE GOD WE BLESS, THE GOD WHO BLESSES US. Oh , yes!
   Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn't know how to be human either -- women didn't know how to be women, men didn't know how to be men. Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men--all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it-emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches
   Since they didn't bother to acknowledge God. GOD QUIT BOTHERING THEM AND LET THEM RUN LOOSE. And then all hell broke loose, rampant evil, grabbing and grasping, vicious backstabbing. They made life hell on earth with their envy, wanton, killing, bickering, and cheating. Look at them: mean spirited, venomous, fork tongued GOD -BASHERS. Bullies, swaggers, insufferable windbags! They keep inventing new ways of wrecking lives. They ditch their parents when they get in the way. Stupid, slimy, cruel, coldblooded. And it's not as it they dont knowbetter. THEY KNOW PERFECTLY WELL THEY'RE SPITTING IN GOD'S FACE. AND THEY DON'T CARE - worse. they hand out prizes to those who dot he worst thing best!

Other translations like NIV, NKJV, NCV, NLT, are just as good .  
THE MESSAGE TRANSLATION, is a bit more blunt.

Romans 1 explains what this world is doing, Paul wrote about it in the 1st century, and it applies to the 21st century.  
DOESN'T THIS TELL US CHRISTIAN SOMETHING IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!

[David Mauldin]

  The Bible portrays Gays as disgusting lecherous animals who wander the streets looking for prey!  In truth gays are just like everyone else.  I know a gay man who behaves with more dignity and integrity than most "christians".  Katheryn Lee Bates who wrote "America the Beautiful"  was gay. One cannot sing that song without sensing the goodness of its author.  Yes the apostle Paul had a problem with Gays but remember Hitler did too.

[lenore]

 : JULY 24TH AT 11:01 PM

Gays as people, they are people who have choosen a different lifestyle.  They are still people in need of a Saviour.

Whether we agree with that lifestyle or not. Isnt it between them and God.

As Christians we know the answer to that one.

I agree David , sometimes humans hearts who are non Christians can be more generous, more loving, more caring to others than Christians who see only with blinders on.  

Just because I can treat the gays people as people, it doesnt mean I approve of their choices or lifestyle.
It also doesnt mean I need to know what goes on in their bedroom. It doesnt mean I need to have their rights trampled over my rights as a Christian to be able to own or read my Bible.
I have a friend , her ex husband brother is gay, and he and his partner have been together for a long time.
She says as a Christian she cannot approve of their lifestyle, she admires their sensitivity to female point of views and feelings.
I have watched news about Gay Pride Parades.
They are some very ungirlie looking men who claim to the gay.  My reaction is what a waste of a good looking guy.
The Bible is very clear on the consequences of this subject being discussed.
Yet the Bible is also very clear, before we judge, we better have our own backyard clean up first.
Just as I am going to stand in front of God's judgement seat, to give an account of my choices, actions, thoughts, words.  
So shall every one else, that includes people who choose the Gay Lifestyle over the Salvation of Jesus.

THese are just thoughts spoken outloud.

Lenore

[David Mauldin]

Your comments are appreciated. Thanks for not slamming me!  

[M2]

Sorry David M.  I do not want to slam you, but you might interpret my disagreement with you as slamming you.

I personally know a man who is gay.  He has even visited in my home with my family.  We have socialized, eaten together, shaken his hand(greeted him).  He would not have known that we knew of his 'preference'.  So what is the point that you are making anyway.

Nice people come in all flavors, as do not-so-nice people.  Hey we even experienced 'niceness' in the assembly, until we were ensnared and then...

Homosexuality is sin.  Adultery is sin.  Pornography is sin.

I do believe that you still have an 'assembly' view of God hence you are unable to see Him as a loving personal God.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[al Hartman]

     In the absence of our resident apologist who, I take it, is still traveling, I will point out that terms such as "good" and "nice" are meaningless without an established point of reference.  Without God in the equation, mankind has no higher standard to which to refer than itself.  The result is that people adjudge good and bad based on the effect that actions or attitudes have upon society.  The society under consideration is not God's, but humanity's.

     By this yardstick is determined that whoever or whatever "benefits" society more than harms it is ultimately "good."  That's "nice" in a world without absolutes, properly termed a fools' paradise, wherein whatever one wants to be right is considered to be right.

     A quick reality-check should establish that I am not the creator of my universe, but merely a creation within it, and that it is, in fact, not "my" universe at all.  This in turn implies the existence of a higher law than I am unto myself.  I say "should establish" because I find myself capable of an incredible degree of self-delusion when it suits me.  The thought that there is a Creator, higher than I, who may have just demands upon my attention and conduct, is easily enough to make self-deception attractive to my ego.

     Ah, to eliminate God.  Thereby we can eliminate sin.  With a few clever twists, we can even eliminate "bad," and simply live with good, better, and best.  How wonderful!  How fun!  We will concentrate on behavior modification, and eliminate punishment and consequence altogether.  There is no evil; just varying degrees of good...  We will adjust our views and preferences to accommodate everyone...  All of us will be happy...

     And yet, as we spread across the meadow, setting up the tents and gamefields of our forever delightful festival of fun living, we find uneven spots:  We trip during our sack race, our maypole ribbons tangle, the veggies burn on the grill.  What can these disruptions mean?

     Reality.  There is an absolute God with absolute values, absolute authority, and the absolute right to our acceptance.   The little tuft upon which we stubbed a toe is the turning point of the ages, the place at which the honest bow the knee in recognition and submission, and which the rest imagine themselves to circumvent, ignoring the truth to feast upon the flavor of the day.

     Be not deceived, God's Word tells us:  God is not mocked.  Each of us will reap according as we have sowed.  The fundamental options are eternal life or eternal destruction.  Sinners will be damned-- even "good" sinners;  the repentant will be granted mercy-- even the worst of us.  There will be no challenges-- no questions of "fairness."  God's world; God's rules:  Play or pay.

     What about all that "God is Love" stuff?  None of us has begun to imagine the wonders He has prepared for those who love Him (only possible because He first loved us).  But He is under no obligation to us.  We cannot require Him to divulge all in advance, so that we can sit back and examine and consider at our convenience whether or not to accept His offer.  What utter folly to think otherwise!  If God is God, there can be no question that He is worthy of all worship and service, no debate of whether He is "God enough."

     The good can never be good enough, the nice never nice enough to deserve access to God.  It is offered only because God is God enough to show us mercy and offer us grace to approach Him through His gift to us of faith in His only begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.  

     The absolute pinnacle of God's kingdom is this:  That the onlybegotten of the Father, without sin and full of grace and truth, became the living sacrifice to satisfy God's wrath upon the sin of the rebelliousness of we, His creation, and that through our acknowledgement of and response to His grace, none of which we are capable of apart from His enabling, we may be joined forever to Him as heirs of His kingdom and joint heirs with Christ.

     For the sinner, the great mystery appears to be "Why?"  "How?"  The effort to mask it in complexity seems endless.  But always, the answer is simply Christ.

     For the redeemed of the Lord, it is possible to marvel that the gift of life in Christ is as wonderful as it is, and yet holds the prospect of forever increasing...


God grant us eyes to see and ears to hear,
al Hartman

[delila]

 The Bible portrays Gays as disgusting lecherous animals who wander the streets looking for prey!  In truth gays are just like everyone else.  I know a gay man who behaves with more dignity and integrity than most "christians".  Katheryn Lee Bates who wrote "America the Beautiful"  was gay. One cannot sing that song without sensing the goodness of its author.  Yes the apostle Paul had a problem with Gays but remember Hitler did too.

Sorry, it takes me some time to track down responses to what I post.  often, I never do.  Alas, I think this topic is worth talking more about.  I'm not posted?  What does that mean btw? I'll go back and put in an email address to fix that if that's the case.  I've signed off the board many times b/c it can be addictive and perhaps when signing on again didn't fill out all the forms.  whatever.  I'll check.

As I've written before, I think the bible is worth questioning further.  I was an assembly sap sucker far too long b/c I accepted the premise that God wrote the bible and therefore it is true and so anyone showing me oh so carefully what God wanted in my life from the bible had me hook, line and nearly drowned.  Yes, Paul had a problem with those who did 'un-natural' things.  Funny though that what's so unnatural in one culture is perfectly natural in another.  If a Christian holds true all that the bible says he is bound to treat homosexuals badly.  I don't consider myself a Christain anymore because I can not completely accept all that the bible has to say and will not be bound to obey the words of a book and thereby bow to tyrrany once again.  Also, I once again state that if one views all the world through 'christain' lenses, it's very much like looking at life through a straw, many are excluded, precluded, secluded, and of course, written off as sinners who can only get back to God through Jeorge, I mean Jesus.  And it ends there, right?  Yeah, I have problems.  I don't look at the society I live in, indeed I can not, as having its only home, indeed very much of its hope tied up in the sinners prayer.
delila

[shinchy]

As I've written before, I think the bible is worth questioning further.  I was an assembly sap sucker far too long b/c I accepted the premise that God wrote the bible and therefore it is true and so anyone showing me oh so carefully what God wanted in my life from the bible had me hook, line and nearly drowned.  Yes, Paul had a problem with those who did 'un-natural' things.  Funny though that what's so unnatural in one culture is perfectly natural in another.  If a Christian holds true all that the bible says he is bound to treat homosexuals badly.  I don't consider myself a Christain anymore because I can not completely accept all that the bible has to say and will not be bound to obey the words of a book and thereby bow to tyrrany once again.  Also, I once again state that if one views all the world through 'christain' lenses, it's very much like looking at life through a straw, many are excluded, precluded, secluded, and of course, written off as sinners who can only get back to God through Jeorge, I mean Jesus.  And it ends there, right?  Yeah, I have problems.  I don't look at the society I live in, indeed I can not, as having its only home, indeed very much of its hope tied up in the sinners prayer.
delila

Hi Delila,
I always appreciate your posts because, as someone who has becaome agnostic after a long process of trying to believe and yet be open to new ideas after leaving the Assembly, I certainly can relate to a lot of what you post. Plus, your posts have encouraged me to speak up more about how I may not subscribe to the views that may be prevalent on the board. David M, you deserve some credit in this regard.

And the topic of this thead is worth talking about. As someone who struggled often and quite silently with homosexuality in the Assembly, I found the supression to be quite damaging in addition to the ex-gay Christian groups I went to before joining. At least with the ex-gay groups, we all suffered together, but I often felt very alone with this issue in theAssembly. I've confided it to at least three people, including a leading brother. I never really talked much about it in the group to those three beyond those initial confidences.  I never acted out on the feelings at all during those four years I was "in fellowhsip." If I had acted out, the guilt would have been enormous. After leaving, it was half a year before I had to face that I was gay and I decided to accept it. It was not an easy process at all. I had a much easier time "coming out" as gay when I was seventeen, before getting into all the Born Again beliefs surrounding a taboo on homosexuality, but coming out again at 26 was harder. I found out about Evangelicals Concerned, a group (not a church) for gays and lesbians from evangelical backgrounds, a year later. The discussions were always interesting and there were some good people, but I had already become agnostic by the time I met them, so they were a supportive group of people where I felt I didn't have to "explain everything" because many of them have had similar experiences.

Words are very powerful things. Words can hurt as well, especially if they are violent towards a someone. Strangely enough, the violence can be done quite benignly - the speaker is non violent but the words are. This is why I really got upset some time ago with what seems like gay bashing on this board. I'm not asking for aplogies from anyone; I just had to say where I'm coming from.