Who is going to win the Nov. 2, 2004 elections?

[M2]

Any useful valuable serious comments about the candidates and their agendas ??

Marcia

[vernecarty]

Any useful valuable serious comments about the candidates and their agendas ??

Marcia

I am curious. Does anybody know why every single law passed by the previous Saddam Hussein regime has been rescinded in the "new" Iraq except one -

The law forbidding  laborers from becoming members of trade unions?

Does anyone know why the Bush adminstration behind closed doors, rammed through, wiithout congressional debate, demolition of a Department of Labor statute from the 30's that requires employers to pay time and a half to working stiffs like you and me when we go past a forty hour work week? - Cops, nurses, firemen, etc. etc.
Does anyone know why the Bush administration is so shamefully treating the men and women who are loosing limbs, livlihood and lives in that hell-hole he has plunged this nation into?
Too bad he does not have anyone giving him spiritual advice.  People like Rumsfeld have no idea what they are dealing with in a nation with the spiritual legacy of Babylon.
Please stand by...they are going to rue the day...


I feel so sorry for this country...what contempt politicians have for you voters!

If you think my questions imply any confidence in John Kerry you simply do not know what time it is...

Verne

[editor]

Any useful valuable serious comments about the candidates and their agendas ??

Marcia

I see it like this:

Using the analogy of a locomotive heading straight to Hell, If Kerry wins, the train will be going 82 MPH, straight to Hell.  

Should Bush win, the train will arrive somewhat later, travelling at only 69 MPH.  That is the difference between the two.

On a personal note, I think Bush is a decent man, and is most likely a brother in Christ.  That doesn't mean I think he is a great president.

I have no such regard for Kerry, and am confident that he would also do a lousy job, perhaps even worse than Bush.

Brent

[Recovering Saint]

Bush would have my vote.

Kerry is scary. You vote him in on this platform and he may change it once he is elected. He is for illegal aliens having status ahead of those who apply to come in legally. He is for expanding stem cell research which scientists are sure to want fetus samples for use in that research. He is soft on abortion. He wants protectionist trade policies which historically causes less trade which stalls the economy result more unemployment. He wants more taxes on rich and companies who create the jobs which means more jobs offshore not fewer. He is for expanding health care but doesn't know that the US can not afford it. He wants Canadian drugs, oil, gas and water but not Canadian beef. He is unclear on how he could better handle terrorism. I don't think he knows and is only winging it till he is elected then he will have to make a decision. It is easy for him to criticize now but he will not be able to handle the heat if he is elected President.

In my opinion. But we will see. Women and youth are for Kerry. Visible minorities are for Kerry. Arts and Entertainment people are for Kerry and civil liberty people are for Kerry. Labour Unions are for Kerry.

Business and world leaders in the countries of Iraq, Iran, Russia, England, Australia and among religious leaders you have Evangelicals, Catholic Bishops, and spiritually conservative most everwhere are for Bush.

[Oscar]

Any useful valuable serious comments about the candidates and their agendas ??

Marcia

I am curious. Does anybody know why every single law passed by the previous Saddam Hussein regime has been rescinded in the "new" Iraq except one -

The law forbidding  laborers from becoming members of trade unions?

Does anyone know why the Bush adminstration behind closed doors, rammed through, wiithout congressional debate, demolition of a Department of Labor statute from the 30's that requires employers to pay time and a half to working stiffs like you and me when we go past a forty hour work week? - Cops, nurses, firemen, etc. etc.
Does anyone know why the Bush administration is so shamefully treating the men and women who are loosing limbs, livlihood and lives in that hell-hole he has plunged this nation into?
Too bad he does not have anyone giving him spiritual advice.  People like Rumsfeld have no idea what they are dealing with in a nation with the spiritual legacy of Babylon.
Please stand by...they are going to rue the day...


I feel so sorry for this country...what contempt politicians have for you voters!

If you think my questions imply any confidence in John Kerry you simply do not know what time it is...

Verne

Verne,

This has been in the news for about a year now.  That's not a very high quality closed door, IMHO.

The reason it was done without congressional debate is that congress doesn't make the rules.  The overtime rules are federal statutes and can be changed by any president at any time.

Bush seems to have redifined the obsolete terms for different supervisors like "straw boss" out of the rules, so lots of low level white collar workers are howling.  Overtime rules were not intended to apply to bosses, only workers.  

The figures surrounding this are largely estimates.  The Bush people claimed that 1.3 million people who weren't elegible for overtime pay will now be eligible.   Other sources say it is "only" about 400,000.

Fountains of truth like Move-On.org and labor unions are trumpeting this as a great oppression by the rich ruling classes against the poor working man.  

The other side says it is a necessary reform to help small and middle sized businesses grow and generate jobs.

Regarding Bush "plunging" this nation into a hell hole....just who were those folks in congress that voted to authorize his actions?

Not John Kerry, of course, he says he was voting for something else!!    

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

[Oscar]

Folks,

In the next four years it is possible that the president will make 1-3 appointments to the Supreme Court.

If a pro-life president is in office, there is a slim chance that the abortion issue will be de-federalized and returned to the states as it should be according to the Constititution.  Some states will outlaw it, so the numbers will decline.

If those appointments are made by a left-leaning secularist, ie, Kerry, we will probably have abortion continuing at current levels indefinitely.

We have slaughtered over 35 million innocent babies on the altar of Feminism since Roe versus Wade was decided.

We have lost 1000 soldiers in the Iraq situation.  We have lost 35,000,000 little babies in the abortion situation.

They died so that irresponsible adults would not have to be responsible for their actions.   I know, I know, what about rape, incest, etc.

A tiny percentage.  Almost all abortions are for birth control by adults, and many women have had three or more.

Pandering leftist politicians like Kerry, (and Clinton before him) declare they are for "a woman's right to choose"...but they don't fininsh the sentence.  It should end..."to murder her own baby."

I don't know about you...but I will vote my conscience on November 2.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

[editor]

I don't know about you...but I will vote my conscience on November 2.

Me too.

We know Kerry won't appoint a pro-life judge, but do you really think Bush will?

Remember his Dad appointing Souter?

I hate to say it, but I think W is too much of a politician to force a true conservative, pro-life judge on a divided senate.

He hasn't got any traction on his appointments so far, and he had 70% approval for over a year.  

I may vote for Bush, even though my conscience tells me not to....but I don't think we are going to see Roe V. Wade on the docket anytime soon.

BTW Tom,  you are most correct about abortion being a state issue.  Most pro-life folks want a federal ban, which in my opinion is an obstacle to reducing abortion.

If we throw it back to the states, I'll move to a state where it is illegal, as will many others.  This means less money for Planned Parenthood, which means less babies killed.

We certainly live in interesting times

Brent

[enchilada]

Here's few reasons I'll be voting for Bush:

1.  Kerry has not explained why he should be president with enough detail.  He hasn't shown where the money will come from to finance the health plan after 20% is paid for by extra-taxing the rich; his response to tort reform is void, except that two lawyers are on his ticket.

2.  Some things I know about Kerry are: his plan for cleaning up Iraq appears dangerous because premature troop withdraw will yield an unstable vacuum, not to mention high oil prices; and his plan for taxing corporations and businesses is unsettling because the unemployment rate will significantly increase.

However, I would vote for Kerry if he and his wife donate all their billion+ dollars and other assets to the federal government, and give me their powerboat, and perhaps one of the five suvs parked at their Sun Valley mansion.

 

[vernecarty]

Folks,

In the next four years it is possible that the president will make 1-3 appointments to the Supreme Court.

If a pro-life president is in office, there is a slim chance that the abortion issue will be de-federalized and returned to the states as it should be according to the Constititution.  Some states will outlaw it, so the numbers will decline.

If those appointments are made by a left-leaning secularist, ie, Kerry, we will probably have abortion continuing at current levels indefinitely.

We have slaughtered over 35 million innocent babies on the altar of Feminism since Roe versus Wade was decided.

We have lost 1000 soldiers in the Iraq situation.  We have lost 35,000,000 little babies in the abortion situation.

They died so that irresponsible adults would not have to be responsible for their actions.   I know, I know, what about rape, incest, etc.

A tiny percentage.  Almost all abortions are for birth control by adults, and many women have had three or more.

Pandering leftist politicians like Kerry, (and Clinton before him) declare they are for "a woman's right to choose"...but they don't fininsh the sentence.  It should end..."to murder her own baby."

I don't know about you...but I will vote my conscience on November 2.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

A principled position Tom and I respect it.
If I were to make a decision based on a single critical issue as a Christian, that would be it.
It is also the reason I think it does not matter whom we put in office.
Our hands are already deeply stained wiith innocent blood.
Tom's 35M figure may well be a quite conservative one...
Do forgive us Lord Jesus...    

I don't know about you...but I will vote my conscience on November 2.

Me too.

We know Kerry won't appoint a pro-life judge, but do you really think Bush will?

Remember his Dad appointing Souter?

I hate to say it, but I think W is too much of a politician to force a true conservative, pro-life judge on a divided senate.

He hasn't got any traction on his appointments so far, and he had 70% approval for over a year.  

I may vote for Bush, even though my conscience tells me not to....but I don't think we are going to see Roe V. Wade on the docket anytime soon.

BTW Tom,  you are most correct about abortion being a state issue.  Most pro-life folks want a federal ban, which in my opinion is an obstacle to reducing abortion.

If we throw it back to the states, I'll move to a state where it is illegal, as will many others.  This means less money for Planned Parenthood, which means less babies killed.

We certainly live in interesting times

Brent

I like Brent's position. I think a case can be made that one of the reasons unrighteousness prevails is that somehow we Christians are not being salt and light the way we ought to.
In remarkable study after study, pollsters have shown that there is little fundamental difference between the way self-proclaimed Christians view the world, and more importantly, make decisions, and those who do not confess Jesus Christ as Lord.
When it comes to faithfulness to one husband or wife for example, there is absolutely no distinction today between Christians and non-Christians. There are many actually in ministry who have had multiple marriages.  While I understand that there are many who are not at fault in their situation, the church has all but abandoned this Godly standard. We now commonly have people in places of leadership who do not represent God's ideal in the marital relationship, yet lack both the wisdom and humility to disqualify themselves from leadership. The standard of elders being the husband of one wife for example is intended to make the choice clear for the church. The literal sense is " a one-woman kind of man". Geftakys would never have qualified around men of stature. No wonder the church has lowered its standards! We think we can play semantic games with the clear teaching of Scripture and suffer no  spiritual consequences for our presumption and disobedience.
It is so great to be in a place of fellowship where you can look at the Biblical standard for elders and then look at the men in responsibility and go - Yep! They  qualify!
We are more precisely defined culturally, than we are Biblically. My family and I have recently had to make a hard decision in this regard. Only a true love for Christ and sincere desire to please Him alone can enable us to do that which goes against the natural grain.
In many ways, as much as we protest and lament the darkness, we do little to dispel it. How many of us would really be willing to sacrifice comfort and convenience to move to a state where abortion was illegal? I think Brent's statement strikes at the heart of why we anymore have so little influence on our society....

Verne
p.s Tom M how did you do on that paper?  

[vernecarty]

I just got done listening to Bill Moyers interview Greg Thielman, a State Department intelligence analyst and I cannot ever remember feelig this sad and despondent about politics.
Generally I could care less. Bush claims to be a Christian and I felt I had a stake...
I am sad about the way they have prostituted my fellow West Indian Colin Powell and completely destroyed the man's credibility and integrity.
I am sad about the way they are forcing Rice, the National Security Advisor, to go on the campaign trail and repeat that which is provably false regarding the administraton's use of intelligence information prior to the Iraq invasion.
I am going to make a prediction.
If George W Bush is indeed a child of God, his jusgement will be his re-election to the office of the presidency and the forcible acknowledgement of what  now appears to be extremely serious breaches of integrity and truthfulness n his discharge of that office.
We need to pray for God's mercy on this man and his handlers.  
Verne

p.s. I remember how completely incensed I was when Harry Belafonte called Colin Powell a "house nigger"...who would have thunk it...?
If the Lord Jesus Christ is not your Master, somebody will eventually make you a harlot...men included...
Makes you wonder what you own "price" is does it not?

INTEGRITY IS EVERYTHING!
Especially for us believers.
...that we would truly know what it means to suffer the loss of ALL things...!!

[vernecarty]

Bin Laden's appearance at this stage in the campaign, might help the undecided make up their minds eh??

Is there a pattern, Republicans from the south, and Liberals from the north?

Marcia

Our friends in Europe were extremely interested in getting Montse and my perspective on Bush's decision to invade Iraq.
Bush is viewed with particular contempt in Spain as the folk there thought he was lying from the outset.
They tossed Aznar and his cronies out of office for the same offence when they took a page out of Bush's book and tried to blame ETA for those train explosions.
 I Remember how, on the strength of my confidence in Powell's integrity, that I strongly argued in favor of the invasion and the likelihood of Saddam's link to Al Qaeda. It seems as if I am going to have to eat a little crow with some of my friends in Barcelona.
Put some long ears on me and call me JACK-ASS...
That is obviously how Rumsfeld, Bush and that crowd views the voters in this country.

[Oscar]

I just got done listening to Bill Moyers interview Greg Thielman, a State Department intelligence analyst and I cannot ever remember feelig this sad and despondent about politics.
Generally I could care less. Bush claims to be a Christian and I felt I had a stake...
I am sad about the way they have prostituted my fellow West Indian Colin Powell and completely destroyed the man's credibility and integrity.
I am sad about the way they are forcing Rice, the National Security Advisor, to go on the campaign trail and repeat that which is provably false regarding the administraton's use of intelligence information prior to the Iraq invasion.
I am going to make a prediction.
If George W Bush is indeed a child of God, his jusgement will be his re-election to the office of the presidency and the forcible acknowledgement of what  now appears to be extremely serious breaches of integrity and truthfulness n his discharge of that office.
We need to pray for God's mercy on this man and his handlers.  
Verne

p.s. I remember how completely incensed I was when Harry Belafonte called Colin Powell a "house nigger"...who would have thunk it...?
If the Lord Jesus Christ is not your Master, somebody will eventually make you a harlot...men included...
Makes you wonder what you own "price" is does it not?

INTEGRITY IS EVERYTHING!
Especially for us believers.
...that we would truly know what it means to suffer the loss of ALL things...!!

Verne,

If you are correct about Colin Powell and Condaleeza Rice allowing themselves to be "forced" to publicly lie about something they supposedly know is not true, why should you feel sorry for them?

"They" are making these poor victims go around an lie to everyone.  Hmmmmm.  

How do they do it?  

Could it be possible that they actually have some personal integrety and believe in what they are doing?

If they don't believe it, they are scoundrels.  You talk as if they were innocent victims of the evil "they."  People without any options, who just can't help what the evil "they" is/are doing to them.  

Thomas Maddux

[Oscar]

"--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: Tom Maddux on October 27, 2004, 11:27:56 pm
Folks,

In the next four years it is possible that the president will make 1-3 appointments to the Supreme Court.

If a pro-life president is in office, there is a slim chance that the abortion issue will be de-federalized and returned to the states as it should be according to the Constititution.  Some states will outlaw it, so the numbers will decline.

If those appointments are made by a left-leaning secularist, ie, Kerry, we will probably have abortion continuing at current levels indefinitely.

We have slaughtered over 35 million innocent babies on the altar of Feminism since Roe versus Wade was decided.

We have lost 1000 soldiers in the Iraq situation.  We have lost 35,000,000 little babies in the abortion situation.

They died so that irresponsible adults would not have to be responsible for their actions.  I know, I know, what about rape, incest, etc.

A tiny percentage.  Almost all abortions are for birth control by adults, and many women have had three or more.

Pandering leftist politicians like Kerry, (and Clinton before him) declare they are for "a woman's right to choose"...but they don't fininsh the sentence.  It should end..."to murder her own baby."

I don't know about you...but I will vote my conscience on November 2.

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

 
 

A principled position Tom and I respect it.
If I were to make a decision based on a single critical issue as a Christian, that would be it.
It is also the reason I think it does not matter whom we put in office.
Our hands are already deeply stained wiith innocent blood.
Tom's 35M figure may well be a quite conservative one...
Do forgive us Lord Jesus...    

When you say "if I were to make a decision based on a single critical issue as a Christian..."

Let's say there was a political candidate that you agreed with on every single issue.  He had a "vision" for the country you wholeheartedly supported, was a man of personal integrety and honesty, loyal to his wife and his friends, altogether admirable except for ONE thing:

He wanted to abolish the free press.  For our good, of course.

Would you vote for him?  Or would this issue be so important that it overrode all other considerations.

To me, abortion is such an issue.  Although I am a Republican right now, I never voted for Pete Wilson after he showed his true colors on this issue.  

I voted for Ahnold the Governator in the recall election, on the basis that: a. he could actually get elected, and b. he was a fiscal conservative.

But governors of states have no power to regulate abortion, so it wasn't a big issue.  

I would never, under any circumstances, vote for him for president.

Presidents appoint Supreme Court justices.  Supreme Court justices, right now, rule the country!

I will not do anything to give a man so base and evil as to support the legalized butchering of millions of babies into such a powerful place.

I don't see how any Christian could.

Thomas Maddux

[M2]

Bin Laden's appearance at this stage in the campaign, might help the undecided make up their minds eh??

Is there a pattern, Republicans from the south, and Liberals from the north?

Marcia

Bush and his advisors have demonstrated that they are fallible.  Through the ages God has used fallible men to accomplish His purpose.

Maybe God heard the cry of the Iraqi people and used this situation to deliver them from their tyrant dictator?  So, then fallible Bush and his advisors would actually be doing God's will in liberating Iraq.

God bless,
Marcia

[editor]

I voted for Ahnold the Governator in the recall election, on the basis that: a. he could actually get elected, and b. he was a fiscal conservative.

I will not do anything to give a man so base and evil as to support the legalized butchering of millions of babies into such a powerful place.

I don't see how any Christian could.

Interesting.

I had a great discussion with the director of a Pro-life pregnancy/adoption center a few days ago.

She also voted for Arnold, despite his pro-choice stance.  It seems that many pro-life people, Christians especially, are willing to set aside their principles at certain times.  In fact, I would even go so far as to generalize that for most,  the principle that abortion=murder is more of a preference than a principle, as Tom points out by stating in one paragraph that Christians shouldn't vote for anyone pro-choice, yet he voted for Arnold, because he wasn't president.

Did you stop to think about the fact that Arnold is probably going to run for president someday?  (If the constitution can be ammended)

There was another fiscal conservative running in the recall election who is staunchly pro-choice, {on edit, I mean PRO_LIFE!!!] Tom McClintok. (SP)  Had all the pro-life conservatives voted on principle, rather than practicality, perhaps he would have been the new governor.  I don't know.

Here's another interesting thing with regard to the soft, convenient stance that many pro-lifeer's take.  The Chicken Pox vaccine is cultured in tissue from aborted fetuses (or babies as I like to call them).

Given this fact, I would venture a guess that the majority of Christian, Pro-life people obtained and administered this vaccine to their children.  Sure, many did it out of ignorance, but I know quite a few who fell back on the logic of,  "Well, the tissue is going to be there anyway, why not get something good out of it?"  These people really think they are going to make abortion illegal?  I bet if this became common knowledge, they'd still use the vaccine.  Some principle.

How principled a pro-life voter are all of us?  Do we have principles, holding life to be sacred, or do we have a preference?

I examined my beliefs on this topic recently, and determined that I really don't have pro-life principles, in the sense that I don't want to overturn Roe v. Wade, or make a federal ban on abortion.

I think it should be left up to the states as to whether abortion, prostitution, gambling, etc. are legal.  

I would like a choice, on my tax form, as to whether I want a percentage of my taxes to go to Planned Parenthood, or an adoption agency.  As it stands now, Planned Parenthood is being financed by people who think abortion is murder.  I think we should have a choice.

So, when it comes right down to it,  I am actually Pro-Choice.  

I would like to choose not to fund infanticide,  and I would also like to choose to live in a state where infanticide as illegal.  What they do in other states is their choice.  That is my principle.

I didn't vote for Arnold, based on his stand on on abortion, among other things.

Anyway, I don't mean this as an attack, nor is it focused on any person in particular.  I just found it interesting that Tom said something that reminded me of something I had been musing over for some time now.

Brent