George repenting? An oxymoron?

[editor]

Arthur!

Excellent verses.  I got the chills reading some of those passages.

Thorns indeed.  But there are still many genuine ones there. May God have mercy.

Brent

[Peacefulg]

Hi Authur and Brent, I just wanted to make the point clear that we do not know if any yet all involved in this cess pool of deceit are thorns, tares, etc.

I agree with you when you say we may never see them repent, but we must not let that point consume us to the point were we cannot be healed (as much as can be I have no idea, but I know that God is Faithful)  

This one thing I do know though is that GOD and He alone will separate the sheep from the goats, He will be the one that sends people to that outer darkness were there will be weeping and grinding of teeth.  We clearly know that they did not do His will in this situation and other, therefore like Paul we can say though not there I already have judge them, but even he whom he judge received mercy though deliver to Satan.

Lord Bless, and Look up for you redemption draws near!
G

[Arthur]

Yes!  I'm glad I'm not the judge!  I just got a call from one that thought was gone without hope, asking for forgiveness.  I am so happy and excited, it almost seems too good to be true!  I sure hope it does turn out to be so. God is so good.  Praise the Lord!  I haven't said that in a while.  

[Peacefulg]

Authur, I will say it with you PRAISE THE LORD!

[Arthur]

   Amen!

[Arthur]

You know, I've spent so much time on this web site and bulletin board, and most of what we do here is recount, look at, and define the problem.  Now it seems as if there may be a solution.  I'm like, what?  Oh yeah, I forgot about that possibility.  Hey yeah, a solution is a lot better than a problem!  I wasn't even hoping anymore or thinking it possible.  This is so wonderful--if it's true.

[editor]

Arthur and everyone!

Hey yeah, a solution is a lot better than a problem!  I wasn't even hoping anymore or thinking it possible.  This is so wonderful--if it's true.

The only reason this website exists is in the hope of a solution.  Destruction could have been caused through legal means.  The whole purpose here is to see repentance and reconcilliation.  Yes, it is happening.  But...it is not over, and is not complete.  We need to stand firm, uncompromising, but also with the understanding that God has grace for these people.

They need to repent, yes.  But we need grace to forgive.  If there is no repentance, there can be no reconcilliation.  However, if we do not forgive our brethren, up to seventy times seven, when the come to us saying, "I repent." then we miss out on reconcilliation.  Luke 17 1-4

Then He said to the disciples,  "It is impossible that no offenses should come, but woe to him through whom they do come!  It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones.  Take heed to yourselves.  If your brother sins against you, REBUKE HIM; and IF he repents, forgive him.  And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, 'I repent.' you shall forgive him."  These words are red in my bible.

Let's not start gushing love and tolerance, when we really don't know what is happening.  Instead, let's prayerfully wait, and receive all those who come saying, "I repent."

Brent

[Kimberley Tobin]

You know I love you honyepie,  yes, with God all things are possible.  We found out about this and three days later we were gone.  But I must ask, why aren't people FLEEING FOR THEIR LIVES when they discover these things?  There is something in it for themselves that they are unwilling to let go!  At some point, you have to let go of that pride you speak of and REPENT of it and the only thing I see to do is FLEE.  

How can those of you who are staying align yourselves with this wickedness?

[Arthur]

Let's not start gushing love and tolerance, when we really don't know what is happening.  Instead, let's prayerfully wait, and receive all those who come saying, "I repent."

"Gushing love and tolerance"?   Heh, sounds like greenpeace.   Ok, well I'd like to know what's going on.  I'm sure it will all unfold before us in due time.  In the meantime, the possibility of reconciliation is something to look forward to rather than rehashing what went wrong, though it was humorous at times.

The situation hasn't entirely presented itself to me, so I can't say 100% for sure, but I think I'd be willing to take back anyone, despite what they did to me, so long as it was genunine on their behalf.  I think that's what that verse is talking about, if he returns to you and says, "I repent", then you should forgive him.  Of course the real clincher is: is it genunine.  That will take some time to determine.  Perhaps that is what you are addressing, Brent.

But I am hopeful.  I mean, is this coincidence or what? I write this post "...Do any of you honestly believe that these men will have a change of heart?  Will they fall on their knees and say 'Oh, what have I done?!  I can't believe I have hurt these dear people so much.  I am so sorry!  I must make things right!'"  And then a few mintues later I get a call from just such a one who says "Please forgive me for such and such...", and I think he really meant it.  I don't know what to think anymore, but I have a glimer of hope again, and for that I am thankful to God.      

[Arthur]

Kim, I wonder the same thing.  I have no idea why anyone would still want to be in there.  But it seems like each comes out in his or her own time.  People haven't seen what I see or know what I know.  No doubt, I would have stayed longer had I not found out some things.  I might have left sooner had I found out sooner.  Another thing is that people may not have experienced anything really bad happen to themselves personaly and so it is just a story to them.  Once they get bit real hard themselves then they leave, if they think they can.  I hope everyone can find a place of rest for their souls.  God have mercy on us all.

[OnlyJesus24]

George's pride has overcome him. He will not repent no matter what happens. He has been given so much power that he doesn't understand what it means to be a "sheep" under the shepard. We must pray that an impossible miracle would happen in this blinded man's heart.

[Peacefulg]

I pray that George see's the same Goodness of God that Solomen saw near his end, since it is the Goodness of God that leads men to repentence.  In the mean time stay from him and those that support and supported him in this sin and others until the repent.

Lord Bless,
G

[Oscar]

Tom,

I respectfully disagree with you to some extent.  I agree that yes, we were not FORCED into the Assembly, bu I believe that there were PSYCHOLOGICAL chains that kept us there.  Ok, to be fair, there are people out there who have left who could see thru all the bull, but there were others (eg-newly-saved individuals) who didn't know their Bibles well enough to make an informed decision.

I tried to leave a total of four times, and the first three times I tried to leave, I was told that I was leaving the covering of God, I would be in sin to leave, I was "in the flesh" and needed to repent.  I was told that God didn't honor me if I left.  So, what choice did I have but to stay (if I sincerely wanted to walk with the Lord and to receive my inheritance and all that)?  Psychological chains kept me in.

Now, I'm no trying to say that I am not to blame, but  am not fully to blame for my involvement in that group.  I do take some responsibility, and do not wish to play the "poor victim" role.  But, I suffered a lot, and am still suffering.  Any input?

Ulaha,

Dear sister, isn't it great!!!!! It's OK to disagree about something!!  Praise God.

You have made a good point here.  I guess I need to revise my opinion some.  I would say that in deceiver/deceived situations, the responsibility factor shifts in accordance with the ability of the deceivee to figure out what is going on, and still be unwilling to face the facts.  
The assembly, of course, along with all cults and cultic groups, preys on college students and young people because of their limited life experience, which makes them good candidates.
I was a college graduate, a veteran, and had been a Christian for 8 years when I met GG.  I should have known better.
I still feel that the chains are primarily emotional, which leads to a willingness to supress "red flag moments"
Remember these?

God bless,
Tom Maddux

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  I guess this is the moment that we have all been waiting for and one that we should continue to try and define.
  It would be a huge mistake, and would entirely miss the point, if all we saw was the need for GG to repent of just the Dave G. debacle.  One could say it was a good start, but if the foundational errors of Assembly teaching and practice are not exposed and repented of the abuse will just continue.
   Yes, we must understand our claim of being victims will have different degrees of personal cupability, but that is not the issue for repentance here.  The key is to understand the system that emerged from the flawed premises on which the Assembly was established in the first place.  GG's own personal pathologies were expressed in a terrible perversion of the Bible that led to systematic abuse of those who thought they were following God.  There can be no deeper abuse than using the name of God to manipulate other's to meet your own personal needs.  This kind of abuse is destructive at a very personal level and I believe rises to the warning of our Lord re. offending his little one's.  
   Certainly, the Lord in the above passage does not add a reminder to the Little One's that they share some culpability in the fact that they are being offended, and He gives the warning to the offenders only.  Sheep and little one's, by definition, are helpless.
   It behooves those who have learned from our past abuse to share in the concern of our Lord and to stand against "offenders" and to protect the "sheep".  This means we should keep our definitions clear re. "who is who" here and what constitutes a true clearing of one's self in the whole Assembly situation.
  Even if a couple of individuals called me up to apologize over how they treated me and my family while I was there it would be incomplete if they did not see that such past abuse was founded in a set of principles that the Assembly practiced and must be fully admitted to!
  I don't think many of those still in the Assembly really understand how abusive their practices have been or where those abusive practices find their origins in their basic understanding of the Christian life.  Until there is a willingness to see the foundational errors on which the Assembly house is built any repentance will be built on sandy soil.
                           God Bless,  Mark C.

[Arthur]

  Yes, we must understand our claim of being victims will have different degrees of personal cupability, but that is not the issue for repentance here.  The key is to understand the system that emerged from the flawed premises on which the Assembly was established in the first place.  GG's own personal pathologies were expressed in a terrible perversion of the Bible that led to systematic abuse of those who thought they were following God.  There can be no deeper abuse than using the name of God to manipulate other's to meet your own personal needs.  This kind of abuse is destructive at a very personal level and I believe rises to the warning of our Lord re. offending his little one's.  
   Certainly, the Lord in the above passage does not add a reminder to the Little One's that they share some culpability in the fact that they are being offended, and He gives the warning to the offenders only.  Sheep and little one's, by definition, are helpless.

Yes, that's it.  How can you blame sheep or a little child?  It seems some would say, "You stupid, why did you let yourself get abused like that?" Jesus didn't say such a thing.  He had compassion upon the multitudes because they were like sheep without a shepherd.  You are right Mark, there are the offenders, the wolves, and there are those who are being offended, the sheep.  The wolf and the sheep have completely different natures, and that is what they are their whole lives, they don't change from one to another.  A sheep can't become a wolf, nor can a wolf become a sheep.  A tare can't become wheat stock, nor vice versa.  A wolf may be clothed in sheep's clothing, and so look like a sheep, until he attacks, then it is clear that he is a wolf.  Tares look like wheat until they mature and begin to produce poison as their fruit instead of nourishing wheat germ.

  It behooves those who have learned from our past abuse to share in the concern of our Lord and to stand against "offenders" and to protect the "sheep".  This means we should keep our definitions clear re. "who is who" here and what constitutes a true clearing of one's self in the whole Assembly situation.
  Even if a couple of individuals called me up to apologize over how they treated me and my family while I was there it would be incomplete if they did not see that such past abuse was founded in a set of principles that the Assembly practiced and must be fully admitted to!
  I don't think many of those still in the Assembly really understand how abusive their practices have been or where those abusive practices find their origins in their basic understanding of the Christian life.  Until there is a willingness to see the foundational errors on which the Assembly house is built any repentance will be built on sandy soil.
                           God Bless,  Mark C.

Very well said, Mark

Arthur