Hell's a little fuller

[vernecarty]

When George Geftakys dies, will hell be that much fuller?  How about TIm G?

     That may depend upon how effectually and fervently we pray for them...

al

Do you think so?
Is there a Biblical precedent for not praying for someone?
Verne

[al Hartman]

When George Geftakys dies, will hell be that much fuller?  How about TIm G?

     That may depend upon how effectually and fervently we pray for them...

al

So if George isn't saved, it may turn out to be my fault?

Brent

Brent,

    If I say that everything, everywhere, always has been and always will be your fault, can we get beyond this kind of silliness?   ...Or does your post actually have a point?  You were the one, after all, who started a thread called Pray For George & Betty's Repentance:

          http://www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?  
          board=6;action=display;threadid=524;start=0


al

[M2]

When George Geftakys dies, will hell be that much fuller?  How about TIm G?

     That may depend upon how effectually and fervently we pray for them...

al

So if George isn't saved, it may turn out to be my fault?

Brent

or mine??

Depends on how righteous you are!!

Marcia

[editor]

When George Geftakys dies, will hell be that much fuller?  How about TIm G?

     That may depend upon how effectually and fervently we pray for them...

al

So if George isn't saved, it may turn out to be my fault?

Brent

Brent,

    If I say that everything, everywhere, always has been and always will be your fault, can we get beyond this kind of silliness?   ...Or does your post actually have a point?  You were the one, after all, who started a thread called Pray For George & Betty's Repentance:

          http://www.assemblyboard.com/index.php?  
          board=6;action=display;threadid=524;start=0


al

Yes, my post has a point.

My point is that if George goes to hell, it will be his fault, not mine.  To suggest otherwise is utter nonsense.

There are plenty of people I don't pray for, for plenty of reasons.  Not only that, perhaps I am a lousy prayer person for those I do pray for.  The fact is, their salvation is not in jeopardy due to my substandards prayer life, neither is it more sure because of your fervent prayers.

The point of what I said is that I was trying to illustrate the false premise of your post.

Brent

[al Hartman]

The point of what I said is that I was trying to illustrate the false premise of your post.

Brent

     Oh.  OK.  Why didn't you just say so?

     So, what exactly did I post that was false?

     And what exactly is the point of your "Pray For George & Betty's Repentance" thread if our prayers aren't going to make any difference anyway?

al

Hello everyone:

This is not humorous in any way.  I am quite serious about this.

As happens to me from time to time, I awoke this morning with an undeniable clear thought upon my mind:

George is going to repent.

Do I have any details?  Do I have inside information?  No.  I don't.
However, without getting mystical on everyone,  I have a similiar conviction about this as I did with the website.  I just "know" it.  I could be wrong, I could be deceived,  I could be a mistaken mystic.  Nevertheless, I have a clear picture in my mind of George repenting, and his wife with him.

They don't have much time left,  and they have done much harm.  Nothing would glorify God more than if George repented.  Again, I'm not referring to a vague sort of repentance as we have seen with some of his servants.  I am referring to real repentance, clear, zealous, and in writing, followed up by deeds.  This would release his servants to repent also.  I am not referring to restoration of his ministry.  That is dead and gone, having been judged and condemned by the Most High.  I am not talking about preserving the "work," or the "vision."  I am talking about  precious souls and powerful cleansing Blood.

I am not going to share all that is in my heart at this time, regarding this.  However, I invite all of you to pray for this to happen.  Pray as often as you can think of it.  

One of the things I have learned in all of this is that right before something really great happens, there is always intense darkness and opposition, confusion even.  It need not cause us any grief, because it is to be expected that our Enemy will fight back when God's Kingdom is moving forward, but sometimes it takes a few experiences to recognize when the warfare is taking place.

Again, I'm not trying to be a prophet, but I am convinced that something along these lines is happening right now.  Pray for George and Betty.

Again, just to make it clear, I am not suggesting that he be restored to service, or that his house be saved,  I am saying that he has a last opportunity, and that he must take advantage of it.  I am not promising he will repent, but I am pleading with all of you to pray in this way.

We can only do so much to clean up the mess, and see people restored.  George, with God's help,  is the missing link to see all the captives go free.

Pray, pray, pray.

Brent Tr0ckman

[editor]

The point of what I said is that I was trying to illustrate the false premise of your post.

Brent

     Oh.  OK.  Why didn't you just say so?

     So, what exactly did I post that was false?

     And what exactly is the point of your "Pray For George & Betty's Repentance" thread if our prayers aren't going to make any difference anyway?

al

Al,

You anwered a question,  "Will hell be fuller when George dies?" by saying,  

"That may depend upon how effectually and fervently we pray for them...

No, it doesn't depend on us, whether George is saved or not.  That is the premise I am referring to.

What did I mean by my post with regard to praying for George and Betty?  I meant that it would be awesome if they repented and that we should pray for their repentance.

I never said that our prayers don't make a difference.  I am saying that it's not up to us whether George is saved or not.  It is entirely up to George, is it not?  God knows who belong to Him, and His hands aren't tied because of my poor prayer life, neither are they strengthened by my awesome prayer life.

Prayer makes a difference, but that is quite different than saying or implying that someone's salvation depends on how effectually people pray for them.

It's that simple.

I am sorry  to have brought it up actually. The reason I did was because your answer sounded pious and spiritual, when in fact it was based on a false idea. (In other words, not only was your anwer not correct, it wasn't biblical either.)  That sort of thing still really gets under my skin, which isn't good.  I should have just let it go.  It isn't that big of a deal.

We are told to pray for one another.  We aren't told that if we don't pray, they may go to Hell and it could be due to our lack of fervency.  There is a big difference in these two ideas.  It isn't sin not to pray for George.  I don't pray for him everyday....not even close.  In fact, until recently I didn't think about him at all.  I have been thinking far more about Gene Edwards than George.  I'm not praying for Gene either.....but I will pray for George.  It's been a while.

Brent

[al Hartman]

Brent,

     Thanks for explaining, and for your openness.  I guess I'd have to say that my response to Uh Oh's post was reactionary to the vagueness of the latter's purpose.  I apologize.

When George Geftakys dies, will hell be that much fuller?  How about TIm G?

     We agree on the essentials of both redemption and prayer.  It was never my intention to imply that we can pray folks into heaven or out of hell in spite of themselves, but I can see now how you read it that way.

     My reference was to Jas.5:16b: ...pray for one another, that ye may be healed.  The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (also 17-18)  The righteousness, while it must be manifest in us, is not from us, but from God through Christ (Rom.3:21; Ph.3:9; etc.)

al