Indian Ocean Tidal Wave

[outdeep]

The Bible teaches that in the end times that there are going to be an increase in wickedness. There's going to be earthquakes in various places. There's going to be an increase in all of this.

And so I think as a minister of the gospel I look at this, and I just say to myself that maybe this is the beginning of the end, as God has spoken about. I don't know.

Earthquakes occur at a fairly consistent sequence, provided the continental plates move with repect to each other at a consistent rate.  What drives the movement of the continental plates can be expained with basic physics.  Just as water boils at 100 degrees celcius at atmospheric pressure, so do earthquakes occur when the load capacity of the plate interface is exceeded.  It bothers me just a little when Christians say that the quake was the result of sin.  It seems better if they would spend less time dwelling on those subjects and more time with the issues of salvation.  

I don't think he is saying that earthquakes are a result of sin.

When I first became a Christian I was caught up in the Hal Linsey Bible prophecy craze of the 1970's.  (It was similar to the current Left Behind craze except back then we really believed that it was true and had many conversations about the rapture and the Lord's return).   It was not unusual for a preacher to talk about Jesus' Olivet discourse where he talks about wars and rumors of wars, earthquakes, etc.  They would then point out that they are like birth pangs happening more frequently in the latter times signaling that we were close to the end times, the Lords return, and the rapture that would occur some time in the 1980's.

I don't know if it is provable that earthquakes happen more often or with more intensity now than centuries ago. However, the basic argument is that "they are and therefore the end times are upon us" is an evangelistic argument that has been around as long as I have been a Christian - probably longer.

I think this is where Franklin was coming from in his statement - rising intensity of earthquakes are a sign of the end times.  In fact, it seems to me that he was pretty clear in saying that that God was not punishing those people through the tidal wave.

[vernecarty]

Does anybody believe what happened in the ancient city of Pompeii had anything to do with their conduct? or was it just geological serendipity? (mount Vesuvius having a bad day)
I am serious...
Verne

[Mark Kisla]

Does anybody believe what happened in the ancient city of Pompeii had anything to do with their conduct? or was it just geological serendipity? (mount Vesuvius having a bad day)
I am serious...
Verne

Good Question.
I remember the first time reading the old testiment and trying to understand how a God of love could instruct the children of Israel to wipe out some nations they encountered, some time later  I was watching a documentary on  public television piecing together the lifestyle of an ancient culture that was recently unearthed, if I remember correctly it was the same name as one of the nations Israel destroyed. Basicly the cultures religon was sex, they had a temple with four walls and no roof, temple women (priestess) would have sex , become pregnant and immediately after giving birth the child would be sacrificed, put in a jar and buried in the temple. They unearthed thousands of these jars. Did God use Israel as an instrument of judgement ?
Yet if conduct determines demise, what about Uriah the Hittite?(2nd Samuel11) a good man in Gods eyes but his wife is unfaithful to him, his king who he is loyal to takes Uriahs wife for his own pleasure, Uriahs loyalty as a solder prevents him from indulging himself, so basicly he is murdered for being a good man.
  I don't try to figure out what God is doing.

[enchilada]

Does anybody believe what happened in the ancient city of Pompeii had anything to do with their conduct? or was it just geological serendipity? (mount Vesuvius having a bad day)
I am serious...
Verne

Pompeii was destroyed because it was built alongside an active volcano.  Here's a tip: don't build city next to volcano.

[sfortescue]

Does anybody believe what happened in the ancient city of Pompeii had anything to do with their conduct? or was it just geological serendipity? (mount Vesuvius having a bad day)
I am serious...
Verne

Pompeii was destroyed because it was built alongside an active volcano.  Here's a tip: don't build city next to volcano.

Do you mean like Mexico City?

[vernecarty]

Does anybody believe what happened in the ancient city of Pompeii had anything to do with their conduct? or was it just geological serendipity? (mount Vesuvius having a bad day)
I am serious...
Verne

Pompeii was destroyed because it was built alongside an active volcano.  Here's a tip: don't build city next to volcano.

Should we move the city of San Francisco then?  
Verne

[enchilada]

There are seismic faults and volcanoes all over the place.  No place is 100% safe from potential tragedy caused by geologic events. The tragedy surrounding the Indian Ocean seismic event is incredibly saddening, and there's nothing much else I can add to that.

[vernecarty]

It seems to me any cosmolgy that is both sound and Biblical has to take into consideration the cosmic conflict going on in the world between good and evil. There are evil forces beyond the  merely natural at work.
We know what Satan did to poor Job.
While we can not with certainty attribute the cause of any great tragedy such as the recent one, to disbelieve the above premise is to disbelieve our Bibles.
I believe God also allows these kinds of catastrophic things to occur to remind mankind that all is not well with the world...the groanings of the creation as it were.
You cannot provide meaningful comfort to those grieving over lost loved ones apart from a cosmology that explains as well as acknowledges the obvious - death and sorrow being a part of life's existence (because of the fall ) AND that God has through the sacrifice of His own Son  designed the full restoration of all things - man and nature.
I think this is the basis on which we offer both explanation and  hope to people.

San Francisco is a vulnerable place, as we all know.  Mexico City is far more dangerous.  If your on Beach Drive in SF and you see the ocean receeding, I'd recommend getting in the VW Bug and high tail it to the top of Mt Davidson and chain yourself to the giant concrete cross.  If the protesting athiests are blocking the way, run over them.

My wife and I took a second honeymoon (after seven years of raising our girls) and stayed at the Mark Thompson on Nob Hill. It is such a beautiful city. All the time I was there I told the Lord to please don't start anything until I left....
Verne

[enchilada]

My wife and I lived in SF for several years and moved out because we got tired of all the Kerry voters.  If a subduction zone earthquake off the SF coast occurs, then the place is toast.  I'm not affraid of the earthquakes, they are actually fun to experience, and you don't have to wait in line for the ride.  As a structural engineer, I like 'em more because they make the job interesting.  The safest place to live is probably Las Vegas, very few earthquakes, and safe buildings. However, if God wants to destroy the place, I'll just say that the Building Code doesn't account for acts of God in the design criteria.

[Oscar]

Does anybody believe what happened in the ancient city of Pompeii had anything to do with their conduct? or was it just geological serendipity? (mount Vesuvius having a bad day)
I am serious...
Verne

Verne,

Among the cities of the Roman world, Pompeii was sort of a sleepy resort town.  Seems to me that Rome or Corinth would have been more likely to bring divine judgement on their conduct.  At least if the quantity of evil acts matters.

This idea reminds me of an announcement that I heard in my adult Sunday School class a few years back.  Seems the Buddhists on Taiwan had planned a big parade on some special festival day.  They were going to parade their idols down the streets and honor them in various ways.

The whole thing was rained out.  Had to be cancelled because of an unexpected rain storm.  The lady announced that God had sent the storm in order to show his displeasure with the Buddhists.

A few weeks later a tornado hit a Baptist church back in, I think, Tennessee.  It hit during sunday services.  About 100 Baptists were killed, including a bunch of kids.    I remember thinking, "I wonder if X is going to get up and announce that God doesn't approve of Baptists."   She didn't.

But that is the problem with this sort of thing.  Natural tragedies have happened to just about everyone.  So, how could we know whether they have some spiritual message?  Beats me.

Thomas Maddux

[sfortescue]

Here is a picture extracted from a pdf file from this web site:

http://www.iris.iris.edu/sumatra/



It takes a little more than 20 minutes for the pressure waves to reach the opposite side of the earth.  The surface waves take about an hour and a half to do the same.  3 hours after the earthquake, having circled the earth, the waves return to their origin, then return a second time after 3 more hours, and more repetitions follow.  The first return of the waves can be seen to trigger a 7.1 aftershock.  Though the aftershock is bigger than the Northridge earthquake, it seems like an insignificant glitch compared with the original 9.0 earthquake and its circling waves.  Reverberations of the pressure waves from the Sumatra earthquake are expected to remain detectable well into April.

The largest momentary displacement (of the ground from its usual position) shown in the graph is about 2 inches, as recorded at one of the 2 closest seismometers, which were about 1000 miles away from the earthquake.  Another graph from the web site shows about 3/8 of an inch momentary displacement in Scotland, at a distance of about 6000 miles.

God has reasons for everything he does, though we often don't know them.  He knows all the details of his work in each individual person's life out of the millions who were hurt by the Sumatra earthquake.

[al Hartman]

Tom & Steve are both zeroed in on an important point here:  God knows exactly what He's doing at all times.  We often don't know what His reasons are, and it would be unwise of us to fake it.

Years ago my late father worked alongside a Jehovah's Witness.  Shortly after a cataclysmic natural event in South America, the JW told us that several Christian missions in the area had been severely damaged, but the local Kingdom Hall was unscathed, "proving" that the watchtower way is the true way.  It may have been a strong selling point to a lot of people.

Thanks be to God that He has given us all the information we need in His Word.  Beyond that is only speculation-- interesting, even fascinating, but nonessential to our lives in this world or the next.

[vernecarty]

Here is a picture extracted from a pdf file from this web site:

http://www.iris.iris.edu/sumatra/



It takes a little more than 20 minutes for the pressure waves to reach the opposite side of the earth.  The surface waves take about an hour and a half to do the same.  3 hours after the earthquake, having circled the earth, the waves return to their origin, then return a second time after 3 more hours, and more repetitions follow.  The first return of the waves can be seen to trigger a 7.1 aftershock.  Though the aftershock is bigger than the Northridge earthquake, it seems like an insignificant glitch compared with the original 9.0 earthquake and its circling waves.  Reverberations of the pressure waves from the Sumatra earthquake are expected to remain detectable well into April.

The largest momentary displacement (of the ground from its usual position) shown in the graph is about 2 inches, as recorded at one of the 2 closest seismometers, which were about 1000 miles away from the earthquake.  Another graph from the web site shows about 3/8 of an inch momentary displacement in Scotland, at a distance of about 6000 miles.

God has reasons for everything he does, though we often don't know them.  He knows all the details of his work in each individual person's life out of the millions who were hurt by the Sumatra earthquake.

Anybody think it interesting that the two U.S cities most ripe for natural disaster(geologists say it's a matter of when not if) also happen to be two of the most flagitous?
Verne

[al Hartman]

Anybody think it interesting that the two U.S cities most ripe for natural disaster(geologists say it's a matter of when not if) also happen to be two of the most flagitous?
Verne

       ...that is only speculation-- interesting, even fascinating...

       ...but why would it matter how many flags they are flying

al

[vernecarty]

Hey Dan F :
If you are still reading, Paul and I are going up to Chicago to get certification from the guy who invented ICF Quad-Locks. What happened in New Orleans is a good example of why this is the wave of the future.
I have a few questions so send me a PM if you are still around.
Verne