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Author Topic: The virtuous vs. SpongeBob  (Read 15116 times)
vernecarty
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« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2005, 07:57:20 am »

... colorful expression ...

Verne,

In clear, precise and detailed terms, how would you define "colorful expression"?

What benefit do you derive from using a colorful expression?

How does it work?  How does such an expression accomplish its purpose?

Stephen clearly since you took offence at my use of you-know-what and I said I would no longer use the term, that would qualify. Why don't we let sleeping dogs lie?
Look for this verse in your Bible and check the original Greek.
I think it also qualifies as "colorful"

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

I could give you a few more but I certainly don't want you accusing me of being vulgar for quoting Scripture...
Verne
p.s If I use an expression and you find it offensive just let me know and I'll be happy to change it of defend my use of it Stephen, fair enough?
« Last Edit: January 30, 2005, 08:05:40 am by VerneCarty » Logged
sfortescue
Guest


Email
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2005, 09:12:20 am »

... colorful expression ...

Verne,

In clear, precise and detailed terms, how would you define "colorful expression"?

What benefit do you derive from using a colorful expression?

How does it work?  How does such an expression accomplish its purpose?

Stephen clearly since you took offence at my use of you-know-what and I said I would no longer use the term, that would qualify. Why don't we let sleeping dogs lie?
Look for this verse in your Bible and check the original Greek.
I think it also qualifies as "colorful"

Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

I could give you a few more but I certainly don't want you accusing me of being vulgar for quoting Scripture...
Verne
p.s If I use an expression and you find it offensive just let me know and I'll be happy to change it of defend my use of it Stephen, fair enough?

Verne,

Since you are being evasive and dishonest:

The expression that you used you call colorful.  So by this example, I interpret that a colorful expression is intended to bypass rational thought in the hearer and incite anger.  I don't see this as being in any way equivalent to your example of Paul's language.

Galatians 5:22-26
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.  And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.  If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.  Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
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vernecarty
Guest
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2005, 09:21:42 am »

[
Verne,

Since you are being evasive and dishonest:

The expression that you used you call colorful.  So by this example, I interpret that a colorful expression is intended to bypass rational thought in the hearer and incite anger.  I don't see this as being in any way equivalent to your example of Paul's language.


I am truly sorry you feel that way Stephen. I guess I could just PM you all my future posts for your  prior approval...would that satisfy you? I kinda doubt it...
Verne
« Last Edit: January 30, 2005, 09:29:37 am by VerneCarty » Logged
outdeep
Guest


Email
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2005, 06:45:22 pm »

Tell me this: why does no one ever talk about the fact that 50% of Christinas are divorved, and almost 80% of the divorced are re-married?  If we are going to condemn the homosexuals for their "lifestyle choice sins" then we need to condemn the Christians for theirs!  The point is: condemning a particular segment of the population isn't going to bring them to Christ!

Don't get Me started...
That is a good question as it is often brought up.  Or, put a slightly different way, why does homosexuality (and abortion) seem to be the top sins that we take strong stances against while others seem to be mildly tolerated?

I thought much about this and here is the best I can come up with.  I am answering in terms of what is happening, not necessarily what should be happening.

First, there is much more ambiguity concerning divorce.  The Bible seems to allow it in some cases.  So there is different opinions among Christians as to how it should be looked at.  There is no possible way you can get around the strong language prohibiting homosexuality without denying that these Scripture have literal validity for today (which, by the way, is what homosexual theologians do).

Second, I think the church has tripped over itself in attempting to help the family - so much so that "Christianity" and "family values" have almost become synonymous terms in some thinking.  I haven't been in a post-Assembly church where there haven’t been seminars on marriage, counseling by the pastor, marriage retreats and troubled marriages referred to Christian counselors.

Third - and I think this is the crux of the matter - there is a certain amount of brazenness about homosexuality that I think has caused such a strong reaction in the church.  Those who get a divorce often come to the church saying, "Yeah, we really blew it and I know it was wrong, but could you help me out here?"   The church doesn't have a big problem with those who sin and admit what they did was sin.

Homosexuals come to the church much differently.  They usually come with a mindset, "Homosexual is what I am.  It is not sin.  Therefore you need to accept me on these terms."  Now the Christian and the homosexual is going toe-to-toe.  If the homosexual admits that his actions are sinful, he is denying, in his mind, his very personhood.  He would have to abandon the very justification for his lifestyle as well as the lifestyle itself.

On the other hand, if the Christian were to say, "all right, don't worry about it.  Come on in and join our church just as you are," he would feel he is rendering the very book upon which he bases his whole world-view as irrelevant.  As Fiddler on the Roof's Tevia said after he accommodated his first two daughter's unorthodox weddings and was faced with his third daughter marrying a Gentile, "If I bend any more, I'll break!"  I think this is how the church feels with the homosexual issue.

Fourth (and this is probably an extension to my third point) there is a very real sense that outspoken homosexuals and homosexual leaders are antagonistic towards the church.  It feels as if they pose a real threat.  Homosexuals would probably argue that the church is the instigator of the conflict in that we are rejecting them.  However, the church would argue that their desire to be part of the church is disingenuous in that they are merely seeking to take control and change the church to accommodate them or (failing that) to destroy it - a tactic they seem to be employing with the Boy Scouts.  

I really dislike the "cultural war" motif.  But, if there is anywhere that it applies, I would think that this is probably it.  It explains why the church reacts stronger to the homosexual issue.  While disentegrating families are indeed hurting the church, it doesn't feel like a "frontal assalt" in the same way that the gay movement presents. (Or looking at it another way, divorsed people don't organize and attempt to push their values on established institutions, but gay people do.)

Now the question:  Is the conflict so broad and the gap so large that the only way the church and homosexuals can get along is to fight to the death?  Or is there a way that we Christians can reach this "un-reached people group"?  In the meantime, do we let them into our small groups and churches?  What if they want to be involved in ministry?  In the Lord's Supper?  In leadership?

I think I have been able to understand the question, but I have yet to have an answer that I feel good about.
« Last Edit: January 30, 2005, 06:48:30 pm by Dave Sable » Logged
outdeep
Guest


Email
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2005, 06:29:15 pm »

E-mail I received today from fotf.

Dr. James Dobson sets the record straight


Dear David,

By now you've undoubtedly heard about the controversy surrounding statements I made recently in which I reportedly accused a cartoon character named SpongeBob SquarePants of being "gay." Although I never made any such comment, the media has repeated the story incessantly, to the point that the truth of the matter has been completely obscured.

Here's what actually happened. In an address to congressional leaders last month, I briefly took the time to express my concern over a video that is being distributed to elementary schools featuring not only SpongeBob, but more than 100 additional children's characters including the Muppets, Barney the Dinosaur, Bob the Builder, and Winnie the Pooh. The video itself is relatively harmless and is devoid of any sexual content. However, it is being incorporated into a larger campaign, created by an organization called the We Are Family Foundation, to teach "tolerance" to young children. Unfortunately, rather than simply encouraging tolerance of those who come from different cultural, religious, or socio-economic backgrounds – which we believe is a worthy objective – the curriculum also contains material designed to encourage young children to celebrate homosexual behavior.

To complicate the issue further, soon after this story broke, the pro-homosexual resources to which we took offense were suddenly removed from the We Are Family Foundation's Web site. However, despite the suspicious disappearance of this material and the public denials on the part of the foundation that it was promoting homosexuality, we have extensive and detailed documentation showing that my original statements are still valid. It should be obvious that my concern lies not with SpongeBob or Big Bird or any of the other characters in the video, but with the way the We Are Family Foundation is hijacking those childhood symbols to blatantly promote the teaching of homosexuality to children in elementary school.

The February edition of my monthly letter, which is being released a few days early, explains this situation in greater detail. It can be accessed on Focus on the Family's Web site by clicking here. I hope you will take the time to read it and get a better understanding of what has transpired. This is especially important if you are a parent with children in public school. Now, more than ever, we must be vigilant in staying abreast of what our little ones are being taught in the classroom.
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al Hartman
Guest


Email
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2005, 10:34:25 pm »

E-mail I received today from fotf.

Dr. James Dobson sets the record straight


Dear David,

By now you've undoubtedly heard about the controversy surrounding statements I made recently in which I reportedly accused a cartoon character named SpongeBob SquarePants of being "gay." Although I never made any such comment, the media has repeated the story incessantly, to the point that the truth of the matter has been completely obscured.

Here's what actually happened. In an address to congressional leaders last month, I briefly took the time to express my concern over a video that is being distributed to elementary schools featuring not only SpongeBob, but more than 100 additional children's characters including the Muppets, Barney the Dinosaur, Bob the Builder, and Winnie the Pooh. The video itself is relatively harmless and is devoid of any sexual content. However, it is being incorporated into a larger campaign, created by an organization called the We Are Family Foundation, to teach "tolerance" to young children. Unfortunately, rather than simply encouraging tolerance of those who come from different cultural, religious, or socio-economic backgrounds – which we believe is a worthy objective – the curriculum also contains material designed to encourage young children to celebrate homosexual behavior.

To complicate the issue further, soon after this story broke, the pro-homosexual resources to which we took offense were suddenly removed from the We Are Family Foundation's Web site. However, despite the suspicious disappearance of this material and the public denials on the part of the foundation that it was promoting homosexuality, we have extensive and detailed documentation showing that my original statements are still valid. It should be obvious that my concern lies not with SpongeBob or Big Bird or any of the other characters in the video, but with the way the We Are Family Foundation is hijacking those childhood symbols to blatantly promote the teaching of homosexuality to children in elementary school.

The February edition of my monthly letter, which is being released a few days early, explains this situation in greater detail. It can be accessed on Focus on the Family's Web site by clicking here. I hope you will take the time to read it and get a better understanding of what has transpired. This is especially important if you are a parent with children in public school. Now, more than ever, we must be vigilant in staying abreast of what our little ones are being taught in the classroom.




This is the FOTF website link, through which the other pertinent links can be reached:

                               http://www.family.org/


al


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sfortescue
Guest


Email
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2005, 11:30:45 pm »

This is the FOTF website link, through which the other pertinent links can be reached:

                               http://www.family.org/


al

A direct link to the article will stay valid longer:

http://www.family.org/docstudy/newsletters/a0035339.cfm
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vernecarty
Guest
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2005, 11:59:55 pm »

E-mail I received today from fotf.

Dr. James Dobson sets the record straight


Dear David,

By now you've undoubtedly heard about the controversy surrounding statements I made recently in which I reportedly accused a cartoon character named SpongeBob SquarePants of being "gay." Although I never made any such comment, the media has repeated the story incessantly, to the point that the truth of the matter has been completely obscured.

Here's what actually happened. In an address to congressional leaders last month, I briefly took the time to express my concern over a video that is being distributed to elementary schools featuring not only SpongeBob, but more than 100 additional children's characters including the Muppets, Barney the Dinosaur, Bob the Builder, and Winnie the Pooh. The video itself is relatively harmless and is devoid of any sexual content. However, it is being incorporated into a larger campaign, created by an organization called the We Are Family Foundation, to teach "tolerance" to young children. Unfortunately, rather than simply encouraging tolerance of those who come from different cultural, religious, or socio-economic backgrounds – which we believe is a worthy objective – the curriculum also contains material designed to encourage young children to celebrate homosexual behavior.

To complicate the issue further, soon after this story broke, the pro-homosexual resources to which we took offense were suddenly removed from the We Are Family Foundation's Web site. However, despite the suspicious disappearance of this material and the public denials on the part of the foundation that it was promoting homosexuality, we have extensive and detailed documentation showing that my original statements are still valid. It should be obvious that my concern lies not with SpongeBob or Big Bird or any of the other characters in the video, but with the way the We Are Family Foundation is hijacking those childhood symbols to blatantly promote the teaching of homosexuality to children in elementary school.

The February edition of my monthly letter, which is being released a few days early, explains this situation in greater detail. It can be accessed on Focus on the Family's Web site by clicking here. I hope you will take the time to read it and get a better understanding of what has transpired. This is especially important if you are a parent with children in public school. Now, more than ever, we must be vigilant in staying abreast of what our little ones are being taught in the classroom.


Now that's what I'm talking 'bout folks. This man is an intelligent Christian.
He went to the source and got the real skinny, instead of jumping on some runaway bandwagon. Way to go Dave! Way to go!
Verne
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outdeep
Guest


Email
« Reply #23 on: February 01, 2005, 12:27:30 am »

E-mail I received today from fotf.

Dr. James Dobson sets the record straight


Dear David,

By now you've undoubtedly heard about the controversy surrounding statements I made recently in which I reportedly accused a cartoon character named SpongeBob SquarePants of being "gay." Although I never made any such comment, the media has repeated the story incessantly, to the point that the truth of the matter has been completely obscured.

Here's what actually happened. In an address to congressional leaders last month, I briefly took the time to express my concern over a video that is being distributed to elementary schools featuring not only SpongeBob, but more than 100 additional children's characters including the Muppets, Barney the Dinosaur, Bob the Builder, and Winnie the Pooh. The video itself is relatively harmless and is devoid of any sexual content. However, it is being incorporated into a larger campaign, created by an organization called the We Are Family Foundation, to teach "tolerance" to young children. Unfortunately, rather than simply encouraging tolerance of those who come from different cultural, religious, or socio-economic backgrounds – which we believe is a worthy objective – the curriculum also contains material designed to encourage young children to celebrate homosexual behavior.

To complicate the issue further, soon after this story broke, the pro-homosexual resources to which we took offense were suddenly removed from the We Are Family Foundation's Web site. However, despite the suspicious disappearance of this material and the public denials on the part of the foundation that it was promoting homosexuality, we have extensive and detailed documentation showing that my original statements are still valid. It should be obvious that my concern lies not with SpongeBob or Big Bird or any of the other characters in the video, but with the way the We Are Family Foundation is hijacking those childhood symbols to blatantly promote the teaching of homosexuality to children in elementary school.

The February edition of my monthly letter, which is being released a few days early, explains this situation in greater detail. It can be accessed on Focus on the Family's Web site by clicking here. I hope you will take the time to read it and get a better understanding of what has transpired. This is especially important if you are a parent with children in public school. Now, more than ever, we must be vigilant in staying abreast of what our little ones are being taught in the classroom.


Now that's what I'm talking 'bout folks. This man is an intelligent Christian.
He went to the source and got the real skinny, instead of jumping on some runaway bandwagon. Way to go Dave! Way to go!
Verne

In fairness and for full disclosure - This was an e-mail sent to me so I really didn't have to make much of an effort. Wink
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