Tim Geftakys in the Placentia assembly

[Uh Oh]

Fair Enough.  Despite the fact that these people fail to realize that they are continuing a ministry raised up by a wicked man, I would have to agree that that is probably not grounds for being committed to a psychiatric institution.

For the record, I wouldn't say I am angry or even bitter over Tim Geftakys.  Rather, I am just a vindictive SOB.  

[matthew r. sciaini]

Al:

The stuff about Placentia is not conjecture, at least the fact that Tim is there.  I spoke to someone still in Fullerton assembly a few weeks ago and he told me that that is what is going on.  Also, Tim has visited other houses of worship (at least he has visited Puente Valley--Tom Maddux would know them as the  "Whittier group" back in the old days).  I visited Puente Valley about a month ago and a man by the name of Sonny Brown who is there mentioned that Tim and Ginger had stopped in there to visit.  I say at least it's another step away from the Geftakys organization days, and that's a good thing.

Matt 

[editor]

Al:

The stuff about Placentia is not conjecture, at least the fact that Tim is there.  I spoke to someone still in Fullerton assembly a few weeks ago and he told me that that is what is going on.  Also, Tim has visited other houses of worship (at least he has visited Puente Valley--Tom Maddux would know them as the  "Whittier group" back in the old days).  I visited Puente Valley about a month ago and a man by the name of Sonny Brown who is there mentioned that Tim and Ginger had stopped in there to visit.  I say at least it's another step away from the Geftakys organization days, and that's a good thing.

Matt 

Time will tell.

However, I suggest that moving to Placentia was not a step away from the organization but a step towards it.  Tim wanted to be in leadership, and they wouldn't let him.  So, he went to a place that is pretty much the same as it always was....not good IMO.

The fact that he is visiting Brethren groups doesn't comfort me either.  Dave Mauldin was an itinerate "gospel" preacher until about 2 weeks before he became an unbeliever.  These folks should have the discernment to help Tim....NOT!!

I would be encouraged if Tim went to EV Free, or Calvary, or something like that.  However, if he goes to these other places, he is only looking for trouble, IMO. 

Perhaps I'm wrong, that would be nice.

Brent

[Oscar]

Al:

The stuff about Placentia is not conjecture, at least the fact that Tim is there.  I spoke to someone still in Fullerton assembly a few weeks ago and he told me that that is what is going on.  Also, Tim has visited other houses of worship (at least he has visited Puente Valley--Tom Maddux would know them as the  "Whittier group" back in the old days).  I visited Puente Valley about a month ago and a man by the name of Sonny Brown who is there mentioned that Tim and Ginger had stopped in there to visit.  I say at least it's another step away from the Geftakys organization days, and that's a good thing.

Matt 

Matt,

I knew the "Whittier Group" well many years ago, before I ever heard of George Geftakys.  I used to go to retreats with them.  They are "comeouters". 

Sonny Brown was in the Assembly during its early years.  However, he fell away from the Lord...ooops....I mean that he woke up and smelled the coffee and got out of Dodge.   

The Whittier/Puente Hills group came out of "the churches", then they came out of the Plymouth Bretheren.  Some of them knew GG back in his PB days.  They knew about his early history, so no illusions there.  The Big Mahout is a man named Floyd Police. 

Tim won't be taking over that group...you can count on it.  However, they will receive him for fellowship, and probably ministry.

Thomas Maddux

[vernecarty]

  Dave Mauldin was an itinerate "gospel" preacher until about 2 weeks before he became an unbeliever.
Brent

Whaaat??!!! Is this some kind of joke Brent?
Verne

[editor]

No Joke,

Absolutley true.  I may have weeks confused with months, but if so, We're talking no more than 4 months, which makes it weeks I suppose.

I am not joking.

Brent

[vernecarty]

No Joke,

Absolutley true.  I may have weeks confused with months, but if so, We're talking no more than 4 months, which makes it weeks I suppose.

I am not joking.

Brent

I believe it. After some of the people I have met supposedly "doing ministry", nothing really surpnrises me that much anymore. Anything is possible after Geftakys.
Verne

[editor]

Check this out Verne,

This same bunch booted George, but allowed Mauldin to preach. 

How bad was George?

Brent

[vernecarty]

Check this out Verne,

This same bunch booted George, but allowed Mauldin to preach. 

How bad was George?

Brent

It is interesting that you should ask that particular question. I am composing an essay for personal consumption called "In Defense of Strong Language"
Some, like Tom Maddux have pointed out that the things that George did did not involve the physical killing of folk and so arguably he should not be considered as bad as someone like Adolf Hitler.
That perspective, more than anything else explains the difference between the way I view what George did, and those who accuse me of using language disproportionate to the offense.
This is a conversation we can only properly have over a cup of java. When it comes to the severitiy of spiritual offenses, I happen to agree with William Gurnalll. After alll, murder, even mass murder is forgiveable, not so he who sins against the Holy Spirit. My own opinion is that this in some way refers to countefeiting. I believe the Old Testament types support this. Remember what it says about imitating the the apothecary ointment.
Verne

p.s. I take the Lord's warning against offending his flock literally and when I was asked to serve indicated I would rather He calll me home than let me do something reallly stupid. I was not kidding...I bought a pile of life insurance...

[Oscar]

Check this out Verne,

This same bunch booted George, but allowed Mauldin to preach. 

How bad was George?

Brent

Brent,

I knew George when he was still in fellowship with Grace Bible Chapel.  He preached regularly in other assemblies such as Shadow Hills Bible Chapel.  Caryl and I fellowshipped there for a few months back in 69.

As far as I know, they never "booted" George.  They refused to recognize him in any leadership capacity...I think that is what got his goat.

Unless you know something I don't know.

Thomas Maddux

[M2]

Verne et al,

This is interesting to me.  I've been thinking about some of these 'issues' recently.

I believe it. After some of the people I have met supposedly "doing ministry", nothing really surpnrises me that much anymore. Anything is possible after Geftakys.
Verne

Do you think that they, ie Geftakys leaders etc., had the Lord's anointing?
My inclination is to think along the lines that George could not have put his empty hand on anybody's full head to bring about God's anointing.

It is interesting that you should ask that particular question. I am composing an essay for personal consumption called "In Defense of Strong Language"
Some, like Tom Maddux have pointed out that the things that George did did not involve the physical killing of folk and so arguably he should not be considered as bad as someone like Adolf Hitler.
That perspective, more than anything else explains the difference between the way I view what George did, and those who accuse me of using language disproportionate to the offense.
This is a conversation we can only properly have over a cup of java. When it comes to the severitiy of spiritual offenses, I happen to agree with William Gurnalll. After alll, murder, even mass murder is forgiveable, not so he who sins against the Holy Spirit. My own opinion is that this in some way refers to countefeiting. I believe the Old Testament types support this. Remember what it says about imitating the the apothecary ointment.
Verne

p.s. I take the Lord's warning against offending his flock literally and when I was asked to serve indicated I would rather He calll me home than let me do something reallly stupid. I was not kidding...I bought a pile of life insurance...

Some quotes that might be relevant to your essay.

...
  Though the Assembly was not Nazi Germany, and none were gassed to death, Jesus said much more about the dangers of false religion then he did about such monsters as Herod.

 Jesus and the NT writers became very alarmed concerning the spiritual damage one might receive from false teachers/practicioners of religion and if we as former victims of this don't sound the alarm who will?
...

http://www.arab.net/camels/

Behaviour
  Camels have the reputation of being bad-tempered and obstinate creatures who spit and kick. IN REALITY, they tend to be good-tempered, patient and intelligent.

God bless,
Marcia

[editor]

Brent,

I knew George when he was still in fellowship with Grace Bible Chapel.  He preached regularly in other assemblies such as Shadow Hills Bible Chapel.  Caryl and I fellowshipped there for a few months back in 69.

As far as I know, they never "booted" George.  They refused to recognize him in any leadership capacity...I think that is what got his goat.

Unless you know something I don't know.

Thomas Maddux

Hi Tom,

I think I may have my Brethren groups mixed up.  Upon referring to some old notes, it was the Goodyear guys in Pomona that booted him.  The Grace and Whittier guys did as you say, they would not recognize him.

Brent

[vernecarty]

Verne et al,

Do you think that they, ie Geftakys leaders etc., had the Lord's anointing?

God bless,
Marcia

No I do not. George clearly had power.
To suggest that its origin was the Spirit of God based on what it produced requires a far braver man than I...
Verne
p.s. It literally makes me shudder when I hear people openly acknowledging a man like Geftakys as their spiritual father; I instead ask God to forgive me for my own blindness and deception...

[Oscar]

Hi Tom,

I think I may have my Brethren groups mixed up.  Upon referring to some old notes, it was the Goodyear guys in Pomona that booted him.  The Grace and Whittier guys did as you say, they would not recognize him.

Brent

Brent,

As I recall, many of the folks from the Goodyear/ Pomona assembly are in the Whittier group today.  They were, I believe, the ones that placed him under discipline for adultery.  He later patched that up.  I'm not sure how.

The Whittier group started when Floyd Police stopped fellowshipping at Westmoreland Chapel after Sparks sent Bro. Harrison to take over.  Floyd considered that to be "one man ministry", which is comeouter heresy.

Thomas Maddux

[Oscar]

Marcia,

You said:

Do you think that they, ie Geftakys leaders etc., had the Lord's anointing?
My inclination is to think along the lines that George could not have put his empty hand on anybody's full head to bring about God's anointing.

The real question is whether or not the annointing of God as experienced by OT prophets, priests, and kings is a reality today.

The rite of annointing symbolized the conferring of the presence of the Holy Spirit upon the subject.  It was reserved, in OT times, for a very small class of people.  Leaders of various types mostly.

But at Pentecost the Holy Spirit was poured out on the entire church.  One of those present on that occassion wrote: "As for you, the annointing you received from Him abides in you..." I John 2:27.

So, the real issue is not whether or not GG could "pass on the annointing".  It is whether or not this is even possible in this age. Personally, I don't think so.  Pentecost marks a significant change in God's dealings with man, particularly the church.

Thomas Maddux