Emptied Himself?

[M2]

Why did you call me an adulteress? (even if you don't think I am saved, for example?).....not to mention all of the other colorful names???  Do you believe as GG does that men and women only have one shot at marriage.  If one is divorced and remarried - they are an adulteress?  Is that it, or would there be another reason you would say such a thing?  I didn't sleep with you now did I?  If I had slept with someone, you certainly would not have been invited to the rendezvous.  So, now, please explain yourself to me and all others if you don't mind.

The answer to this one is easy and it does not matter whether you are saved or not. What I said was clearly said in anger and frankly a cheap shot intended to insult you.
That was wrong and for that I apologies.

What I think about your marital situation is irrelevant,

Irrelevance has never stopped you from talking about my personal life before, including my marital status, not to mention the lack of marital status of others.  Why start now?  Are you saying that because I am divorced and re-married that I am considered an adulteress?  Simple question.  Surely you were not lying when you called me an adulteress several times (we have the quotes).  If you were not lying and if you were giving your opinion, surely you can explain it.

I don't want to discuss CMA in this context as  I do not think it would be useful.

Surely I will not have to fill the post with repeats.  I said, "I know all I want to know about that incident.  It's not a mystery like you make it sound.  Many do know the particulars and I've heard enough to know that there were serious mistakes made re. Pastor Jon."    

I suggest we go back to the very beginning of our exchanges on this BB (the posts are still here!) and deal with each item. Again, my assumption is that we are not following the Biblical pattern for resolving of differences among brethren, but simply having a discussion about the relative merits of positions that you and I have taken on matters over which we disagree.
One of your earliest declarations on the BB, and which led to most of the subsequent acrimony, was to pronounce GG "The Lord's servant."

Is that still your position based on the facts now at your disposal?

I have written 'a book' on it.  You have written 'a library of books' on the subject.  Instead of rehashing, repeating - why don't you just read my 'book.'  www.soaringwiththeeagles.com ??  Besides, why would my opinion be important to a believer on such a subject.  I know I wouldn't want to discuss such a subject with an unbeliever?

Here is the very first thing I said to you after you came on the BB using a pseudonym.
You knew who I was and your response was not to identify yourself as a sister in Christ or to take up any issue you had with me personally. You immediately tried to embarrass me by posting the PM I sent on the public forum.

If I was a sister in Christ or if I was a woman of ill repute, you should not have spoken in the tone you did to me and you should not have said what you said.  I will not take secret, mean spirited handling by men and keep their dirty little secrets.  I manage my life and do not leave it for others to abuse in secret.  The anointing of the Lord is precious.   There's nothing I enjoy more than waving their dirty underwear in the wind for all to see/hear so they may be ashamed and turn from their wicked ways.

Btw.  Speaking of private emails - I heard through the MP grapevine that you quoted me in a private email to Matt and to Luke re. my statement that I couldn't understand why grown, middle-aged men were so indignant and impatient with younger men...that my husband enjoys younger men and spends time trying to train them, teach them, help them...something along that line.   You emailed both Matt and Luke and said, "You had better watch Sondra's husband - he likes young men." (with a big wink).  That's call taunting, a deliberate effort to stumble.  You felt safe because you knew that two younger brothers would certainly not post your private email that would point to an issue of homosexuality.  Young men are esp. sensitive to these kind of issues.

Now is that something a man of God does?  To go out of your way to humiliate young men who are interested in the things of God?  Many were hurting and felt desperate and confused at that time.  You were an 'elder' in a church and had been out of the assy for many years. So much for private emails. And if that's what a Believer does, my preference would be to live on an island with Leprous Unbelievers, Verne.

This destroys credibility when you are a different person in secret than in the open.  There should not be such a wide discrepancy.  What you are in secret IS what you are in private when you think no one (of significance) is looking.   God AND SONDRA (sometimes) sees in secret and shouts it from the housetops.

Are we all sinners and vulnerable and make mistakes and are ashamed?  Yes, but with one who is so pious, "KJ sounding,"railing, condemning of the Lord's people who disagree with you?? my gloves come off.  

There is something terribly wrong with you...your invoking pseudo-spiritual language does not mask the obvious deep spiritual scars you bear...what exactly did George do to you madam?

 Madam?  Madam?  Who talks like this?  It's more important to be like the Lord than to mimic the language of the KJV of the NT.  Ok, now for what you said, again, read the book on SWTE.

Your representing a man of  this level of depravity as God's servant betrays a spiritual darkness that I find startling. I see you for exactly what you are...a vessel of wrath.

Verne

Well, the proof is in "the pudding" I guess.  All I can see is a frustrated man who doesn't have the key to giving life to others and sows seeds of death and meets with rejection of his word.  Frustration sets in for one who wants to be followed when he doesn't have followers because the cubboards are bare or what is there is sour.  

One cannot give life if he does not have life.  One who does not have life needs to go to the Well and drink from the Well of Living Water and stop memorizing new terms, thoughts, philosophies, etc.  One who is full cannot be filled and so must (here's where the word empty does work well) - EMPTY himself so he might be filled.  Memory knowledge can only assist our spiritual lives in God.  It cannot BE that life.   Go to the Well one cannot drink if they will not die to their own self-love, self-service, and self-preservation.  You stumble at the Cornerstone as did our father - if you will not humble yourself and become as a simple little child.  I pray one day you will say that you know nothing of the Christ and I gladly say today.  I only have a thimble full.
[/size]

Hi Sondra,

I am not taking sides here, but I am having a difficult time reconciling your posts re. forgiveness, and your response to Verne here.  Please explain.

Marcia

[sfortescue]

Romans 15:1-3,7
We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves.  Let every one of us please his neighbour for his good to edification.  For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached thee fell on me. ...  Wherefore receive ye one another, as Christ also received us to the glory of God.

[M2]

Why did you call me an adulteress? (even if you don't think I am saved, for example?).....not to mention all of the other colorful names???  Do you believe as GG does that men and women only have one shot at marriage.  If one is divorced and remarried - they are an adulteress?  Is that it, or would there be another reason you would say such a thing?  I didn't sleep with you now did I?  If I had slept with someone, you certainly would not have been invited to the rendezvous.  So, now, please explain yourself to me and all others if you don't mind.

The answer to this one is easy and it does not matter whether you are saved or not. What I said was clearly said in anger and frankly a cheap shot intended to insult you.
That was wrong and for that I apologies.

What I think about your marital situation is irrelevant,

Irrelevance has never stopped you from talking about my personal life before, including my marital status, not to mention the lack of marital status of others.  Why start now?  Are you saying that because I am divorced and re-married that I am considered an adulteress?  Simple question.  Surely you were not lying when you called me an adulteress several times (we have the quotes).  If you were not lying and if you were giving your opinion, surely you can explain it.

I don't want to discuss CMA in this context as  I do not think it would be useful.

Surely I will not have to fill the post with repeats.  I said, "I know all I want to know about that incident.  It's not a mystery like you make it sound.  Many do know the particulars and I've heard enough to know that there were serious mistakes made re. Pastor Jon."    

I suggest we go back to the very beginning of our exchanges on this BB (the posts are still here!) and deal with each item. Again, my assumption is that we are not following the Biblical pattern for resolving of differences among brethren, but simply having a discussion about the relative merits of positions that you and I have taken on matters over which we disagree.
One of your earliest declarations on the BB, and which led to most of the subsequent acrimony, was to pronounce GG "The Lord's servant."

Is that still your position based on the facts now at your disposal?

I have written 'a book' on it.  You have written 'a library of books' on the subject.  Instead of rehashing, repeating - why don't you just read my 'book.'  www.soaringwiththeeagles.com ??  Besides, why would my opinion be important to a believer on such a subject.  I know I wouldn't want to discuss such a subject with an unbeliever?

Here is the very first thing I said to you after you came on the BB using a pseudonym.
You knew who I was and your response was not to identify yourself as a sister in Christ or to take up any issue you had with me personally. You immediately tried to embarrass me by posting the PM I sent on the public forum.

If I was a sister in Christ or if I was a woman of ill repute, you should not have spoken in the tone you did to me and you should not have said what you said.  I will not take secret, mean spirited handling by men and keep their dirty little secrets.  I manage my life and do not leave it for others to abuse in secret.  The anointing of the Lord is precious.   There's nothing I enjoy more than waving their dirty underwear in the wind for all to see/hear so they may be ashamed and turn from their wicked ways.

Btw.  Speaking of private emails - I heard through the MP grapevine that you quoted me in a private email to Matt and to Luke re. my statement that I couldn't understand why grown, middle-aged men were so indignant and impatient with younger men...that my husband enjoys younger men and spends time trying to train them, teach them, help them...something along that line.   You emailed both Matt and Luke and said, "You had better watch Sondra's husband - he likes young men." (with a big wink).  That's call taunting, a deliberate effort to stumble.  You felt safe because you knew that two younger brothers would certainly not post your private email that would point to an issue of homosexuality.  Young men are esp. sensitive to these kind of issues.

Now is that something a man of God does?  To go out of your way to humiliate young men who are interested in the things of God?  Many were hurting and felt desperate and confused at that time.  You were an 'elder' in a church and had been out of the assy for many years. So much for private emails. And if that's what a Believer does, my preference would be to live on an island with Leprous Unbelievers, Verne.

This destroys credibility when you are a different person in secret than in the open.  There should not be such a wide discrepancy.  What you are in secret IS what you are in private when you think no one (of significance) is looking.   God AND SONDRA (sometimes) sees in secret and shouts it from the housetops.

Are we all sinners and vulnerable and make mistakes and are ashamed?  Yes, but with one who is so pious, "KJ sounding,"railing, condemning of the Lord's people who disagree with you?? my gloves come off.  

There is something terribly wrong with you...your invoking pseudo-spiritual language does not mask the obvious deep spiritual scars you bear...what exactly did George do to you madam?

 Madam?  Madam?  Who talks like this?  It's more important to be like the Lord than to mimic the language of the KJV of the NT.  Ok, now for what you said, again, read the book on SWTE.

Your representing a man of  this level of depravity as God's servant betrays a spiritual darkness that I find startling. I see you for exactly what you are...a vessel of wrath.

Verne

Well, the proof is in "the pudding" I guess.  All I can see is a frustrated man who doesn't have the key to giving life to others and sows seeds of death and meets with rejection of his word.  Frustration sets in for one who wants to be followed when he doesn't have followers because the cubboards are bare or what is there is sour.  

One cannot give life if he does not have life.  One who does not have life needs to go to the Well and drink from the Well of Living Water and stop memorizing new terms, thoughts, philosophies, etc.  One who is full cannot be filled and so must (here's where the word empty does work well) - EMPTY himself so he might be filled.  Memory knowledge can only assist our spiritual lives in God.  It cannot BE that life.   Go to the Well one cannot drink if they will not die to their own self-love, self-service, and self-preservation.  You stumble at the Cornerstone as did our father - if you will not humble yourself and become as a simple little child.  I pray one day you will say that you know nothing of the Christ and I gladly say today.  I only have a thimble full.

Sondra, you said, "God AND SONDRA (sometimes) sees in secret and shouts it from the housetops."

Are you referring to the private emails here?

I am curious as to why you changed and re-posted after spending most of the day defending the other post?

Marcia

[sfortescue]

I am curious as to why you changed and re-posted after spending most of the day defending the other post?

Marcia

I didn't notice anything changed.

I'm speculating that the BB malfunctioned and changed the date of her post.

I hope the BB administrators make backup copies of the database, since the server may crash.

[M2]

I am curious as to why you changed and re-posted after spending most of the day defending the other post?

Marcia

I didn't notice anything changed.

I'm speculating that the BB malfunctioned and changed the date of her post.

I hope the BB administrators make backup copies of the database, since the server may crash.

My mistake.  No the BB did not malfunction.

Sondra, you said, "God AND SONDRA (sometimes) sees in secret and shouts it from the housetops."

Are you referring to the private emails here?

I don't know what you are talking about here.

I am curious as to why you changed and re-posted after spending most of the day defending the other post?

Marcia

I am really trying to have a conversation with Verne, Marcia.  I did not change my post...to my knowledge unless I quoted the wrong one or something??  Don't believe I did.    I merely moved it to the top so Verne could see it.  Is that against an AB rule?  I heard anything goes over here.  Why are you jumping to a conclusion re. my honesty in posting.  Yes, I defended my posts.   It would effect no one as adversely as it would me if I lost it or messed it up.  So why don't you find a good book or something to occupy yourself and let me manage my own account on this board?  If I get what I came for I will be outahere soon.  I really think you need to open your own board.  You would be a good manager.  Actually, I think Brian Tucker should turn this one over to you.  This one seems to be limping like an old pirate.

Btw.  I have witnessed Verne change, edit, alter, a gazillion posts and I don't ever remember you mentioning a thing to him.  What about the -  who knows how many posts he deleted completely -  leaving big holes in threads....little was said.

If I have messed up the post, I am sorry for myself...because it took a lot of effort to write it.  I have no intension of being dishonest in my posting.

No offense, but bug off, will ya?

Sondra

You usually write "on edit" when you make a change, but this was my mistake so I apologize to you.

re. "seeing in secret"  I am puzzled.  Maybe you were referring to the private/secret email that you saw.  But you don't have to respond, unless you really want to.

Marcia

[al Hartman]

I hope the BB administrators make backup copies of the database, since the server may crash.

Stephen,

Just curious:  Is a server crash anything like a stock market crash?  Will those who are responsible jump out of the latest version of Windows?

al

[moonflower2]

If I get what I came for I will be outahere soon.  
Sondra

How much?

[outdeep]

Some people end the discussion because they have no backbone.  Others end the discussion because conditions are such that there is no hope for a solution and the participants are merely wasting everyone's time and energy.

Feel free to believe whichever you like.

[moonflower2]

I'm here to get something, it's true.  I'm here to get the TRUTH.  Oh yes, what is Truth?  My version of truth is not telling lies, for starters.  Delusions can then be overcome.

Now we see what we are dealing with.  Where are the - well, I won't use the word Verne uses to crow about his great bravery and heroism....we'll just call it backbone?  

Private Message from Verne  Re:(No subject) on: Today at 07:53:14am

It is my own conviction that the honoring thing to the Lord at this time,would be to forego any further discussion with you Ms. Jamison. Go in peace.
Verne  

This feels a little like when I was a kid and my little brother would come up and slug me in the middle of the back and then, when judgment came close - he wasn't interested in talking about it....usually my mom was very interested in the conversation, however.

This proves it.  If George himself came on the board, Verne would be instantly sick.  Some people on this board would perhaps have the balance to enter into a discussion.  Verne would silence and go dumb.  Big talk.  No, (clears throat), backbone.

This is not about "honoring the Lord."  This is what Verne did his whole time in the assy, as I remember.  He hid.  If he can't criticize - GG, DG, SJ, MP, on and on...he has nothing to talk about.  That's Calvinism at it's best.  When Calvinist's get in too deep with someone - their out is - "oh well, he/she is not even saved."

What happened to your shepherd who would lay down his life for the sheep?  Where could he be?  He's pretending to take the high ground when it's nothing, but cowardice and spiritual weakness.  I think of words he has used to describe himself in the past.  Fearless.  Valiant.  Dauntless.  Tough.  Brave.  Ok, he didn't come right out and say....  but no one questions he MOL boasted about his own attributes with the backdrop of "the incompetence of the Leading Brothers"...on and on.  

No one here has loved Verne.  He has been used.  The love that helps a brother like this was demonstrated in the Assembly.  Yes, there were problems, errors, find me a church/denomination who doesn't have them?  And then there's the secret sins of GG over many years.  All suffer when this type of things happens.  But there were many positive things in the Assemblies that met needs in people's lives.  I fear that Verne's weakness has been fed through this forum.  He has not been loved.  Love confronts and heals people.  Love maintains boundaries.  Verne's membership on AB is the equivalent of hiring an alcoholic to work in the the local pub.  May as well just hook up an IV.

Sondra Jamison,  Admin.  Soaringwiththeeagles.Com
[/size]

Hopefully, this will be the last post from George Geftakys, er, Sondra.

[faith]

personally...I don't mind heat at all.  It's wind that I really find irritating.  

[M2]

Sondra, I am truly disappointed that you outed an annonymous poster.  You wouldn't even let me speculate as to the location/habitat of your annonymous poster.  I never intended to out yours. Though I have a pretty good idea who he is, I set up the conversation to give him the opportunity to tell me for himself.  BTW you should tell him to change his pseudonym because his initials stink.

Sondra this kind of thing smells like spite and malice.
Where is the practical apllication of all that you hae preached on your website?  and you call yourself a teacher of the Lord's people?  Selah!

Marcia

P.S.
Sondra, I am quite amazed at how unforgiving you are.  You call George Geftakys "the Lord's Servant" and cannot tolerate some "strong language" from another.

You claim to know(sometimes) the secrets of another, even as God does.  That borders on blasphemy.

You said, "Love confronts and heals people."
Do you really truly believe this? or does this only apply when it suits your agenda?
Do you think this applies to the LBs/LBWs/workers and wannabees and other faithful GeftakysServants?

Marcia

[vernecarty]

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

Verne

[outdeep]

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

Verne

Great, Verne.  That's a verse in the Bible all right.  What are we saying here?

[vernecarty]

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

Verne

Great, Verne.  That's a verse in the Bible all right.  What are we saying here?

Is it not interesting how often the sacred and the secular intersect?
I once suggested that every Christian should learn how to handle a sword and Tom queried me as to why I thought so.
The Word of God is compared to a two-edged sword.
Lessons in swordplay all begin with some kind of weapon surrogate, usually hickory.
After many months of prepatory instruction, the student eventually moves on to a dull blade, and then eventually the real article.
I told Tom the thing that you learn very quickly when handling a double- edged blade is how to be extremely careful.
The analogy to the Word of God is most apt.
A well-known warrior (Sun Tzu) wrote a treatise in which he maintained that most battles were decided even before the combatants took the field, and that the thinking, or will, is truly where the conflict is decided.

Satan fully understands this. Many Christians do not.

Don't let folks, particularly hostile ones, into your head...
Understand the true nature of the enemy...
Choose your weapons carefully...
Verne

[M2]

...
Ok.  Let's put it back on Marcia here re. anon.  You seem to only mind anonymity when someone is anon. who disagrees with YOU.   Matt's and my board allows it and protects anon.- this one doesn't.  These two have been posting anon. for a long time and you're cool with that, but you have been trying to yell at Bob for it.  You are a member of our board which does allow anon.  I hope you value your membership, if not, go ahead and out him.  But, this board allows it - don't you see the distinction?  
...

You are right that SWTE protects annonymous posters and this board has no such rule.
I knew that Sondra, and I could have used my rights on this board to out your Bob Smith, but I did not.  It wasn't because I was afraid of losing my membership on SWTE Sondra.  Like I said before, I wanted to give Bob the opportunity to tell me himself so I set up the conversation with that in mind.  I do not remember yelling at him.

Marcia