Sondra speaks out.

[editor]

At the time, I fully well knew that just an apolgy would not solve the problem as issues involved far more than uncharitable things said on both sides.
By the way, if you or Brent throw out the lack of humility charge again I am simply gping to have to puke.
Ths has nothing to do with humility and that tactic of manipulation is a thing of a by-gone era.

Wow, this is really sad.

First of all, even if you knew an apology would not solve the problem, you should still have done so, regardless of what the other person does or says.

Instead, you apologized, then immediately started defending yourself. Your "Strong Language," should be reserved for people who deserve it, not for people you speak ill of.  Strongly condemning her ideas is one thing, but you actually called her several things she is not.  You were wrong here, Verne.

Secondly, if "far more uncharitable things" were indeed done on both sides, as you indicate, what has taken you so long to make these right?

Verne, you have so much to offer.  Your contribution is so welcome here, why do you want to be so adamant about this?  You said those things. You apologized.  Now, it appears as if you still have a huge axe to grind, and that seem to be implying that you really were justified in saying those things afterall.

This isn't right my friend, and I'd be unfaithfull to not mention it.

Forget about what she said or did.  The only thing you have control over is what YOU say and do.  If she won't forgive, that's her problem.  However, if you won't humble yourself, that's yours.  This is no Assembly tactic, and I don't think I need to explain why it isn't.

I have had plenty of public disagreement with her, and have been the topic of several things on their website which personally bothered me.  However, I didn't call her an adultress!  YOU DID THAT.  I am not laying anything at your doorstep that you didn't put there the night before.

Brent

[vernecarty]

Wow, this is really sad.

First of all, even if you knew an apology would not solve the problem, you should still have done so, regardless of what the other person does or says.

Instead, you apologized, then immediately started defending yourself. Your "Strong Language," should be reserved for people who deserve it, not for people you speak ill of.  Strongly condemning her ideas is one thing, but you actually called her several things she is not.  You were wrong here, Verne.

Secondly, if "far more uncharitable things" were indeed done on both sides, as you indicate, what has taken you so long to make these right?

Verne, you have so much to offer.  Your contribution is so welcome here, why do you want to be so adamant about this?  You said those things. You apologized.  Now, it appears as if you still have a huge axe to grind, and that seem to be implying that you really were justified in saying those things afterall.

This isn't right my friend, and I'd be unfaithfull to not mention it.

Forget about what she said or did.  The only thing you have control over is what YOU say and do.  If she won't forgive, that's her problem.  However, if you won't humble yourself, that's yours.  This is no Assembly tactic, and I don't think I need to explain why it isn't.

I have had plenty of public disagreement with her, and have been the topic of several things on their website which personally bothered me.  However, I didn't call her an adultress!  YOU DID THAT.  I am not laying anything at your doorstep that you didn't put there the night before.

Brent

You have no public credibility if the only thing you do is vigorously hold me to a standard, while ignoring her conduct. That is all that I am saying Brent. You also failed to take a stand when the conflict involved others. Your being
 solicitious to be "faithful" in my case is rather touching. It is simply not credible. You have been spending too much time over there I think.
Verne

[vernecarty]

June 16, 2003, 09:03:32 pm »     

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know about you but I come to the Bulletin board for fellowship. There were some great threads like "Old Earth/ New Earth" and "Egyptian Mythology" that really had some thought-provoking posts in them. I TRULY enjoyed them.

The Bulletin Board originally came about from the Website which was created to expose the Assembly. It did it's job and George was brought to light and excommunicated.
Some say the Bulletin Board is here to further expose the Assembly, others that it is here for healing. But what it had come to be basically was a place where people came and fellowshipped. There were friends here to help those who might have left. And many visited with their experiences and testimonies, and many WERE helped. But it basically became a place where several different "threads" were created and people talked about literally "anything"(humor, sports, politics, kids, etc.)

I really enjoyed that. Hey--how about those San Antonio Spurs?? I'm not from Texas, but the people there must be pretty excited!!! "The Hulk" is coming out---might be good if you like special effects!! I'll tell you a good movie to see is
"Bruce Almighty"---of course, it's not Scriptural, but it's fun, and it's clean with a good message. people were literally clapping at the end of it when I saw it.

---just thought I'd recall part of a post back from 6-16-03 from the "Move On" thread when there were arguments going on at that time. In an effort to diffuse some of the arguing, I used a quip that I recently used again( accept this time it was the Patriots), and was accused of being divisive and making the argument a "competition". That was unfair, and as I looked at older threads today and found this, I thought I'd share it, to show I have used that same quip many times in the same manner, and for the same reason.

Thanks, Joe

I miss those days too Joe. Dave is right in that a BB is not the best place for the resolution of personal differences. Especially of you are thin-skinned. The temptation to engage in self-righeous pontificating when you have an audience is far too great. Folk serious about settling their differences do so in private. I don't buy the poppy-cock for one miniute that this was the proper way to do deal with this kind of issue. Never has been, never will be.
Verne

[Joe Sperling]

Verne---

Thanks for saving the post. I deleted it, thinking maybe I should just forget about
it, but I think maybe it's good you saved it and included it in your post. I don't know
really what to make of all that has happened recently, it's all very troubling. There has
been so much said over the last couple of years, a perusal of old posts is very telling.

I'll stay out of this one(the main argument going on),
 but did want to show that I have referred to sports teams
when attempting to "lighten up" a discussion other times before. It's no fun to be
accused of something without foundation, and having an attempt at apology thrown out
because the other person is "sure" they know what you meant---when there was an entirely different meaning altogether. Most roads are not one-way streets.

God bless, Joe

[vernecarty]

Verne---

Thanks for saving the post. I deleted it, thinking maybe I should just forget about
it, but I think maybe it's good you saved it and included it in your post. I don't know
really what to make of all that has happened recently, it's all very troubling. There has
been so much said over the last couple of years, a perusal of old posts is very telling.

I'll stay out of this one(the main argument going on),
 but did want to show that I have referred to sports teams
when attempting to "lighten up" a discussion other times before. It's no fun to be
accused of something without foundation, and having an attempt at apology thrown out
because the other person is "sure" they know what you meant---when there was an entirely different meaning altogether. Most roads are not one-way streets.

God bless, Joe

No problem Joe, I can make my case O.K.
You and I were both charged, tried and convicted on that sports charge. The really funny thing, is I did not even make the connection to the SWTE site until Tom pointed it out yet she was so certain we were both referring to them.
I was simply expressing my opinon that the Pats would take it by more than a touchdown.
This is narcissism run amok
I am a little ashamed that no one came to your defense and all seem to be bending over backwards to placate the one hurling such ludicrous allegations. According to Brent, we are now not supposed to defend ourselves from this kind of thing. That is drivel right out of assembly- land if you ask me. Well, I have had it up to here with this sanctimonious posturing. I started talking again because people who should have spoken up seem to have been struck dumb while havoc was being wreaked. Take care my friend.
Verne

[al Hartman]

     ...had to go back & re-read Matt.5:3-12, to see if I had misread it:

3.  Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

4.  Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.

5.  Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

6.Blessed are they who hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

7.  Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

8.  Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

9.  Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

10.  Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

11.  Blessed are you, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my name sake.

12.  Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets who were before you.


     See, I was wondering where is the meekness, the mercy, the purity of heart, the peacemaking, the rejoicing in persecution for righteousness' sake, the gladness for false and evil persecution...  But then I realized that those things must not apply to us today; must have been for some other, past dispensation (I understand so little about such things).


     Then I thought of Matt.7:

1.  Judge not, that you be not judged.

2.  For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3.  And why behold the speck that is in your brother's eye, but not consider the plank that is in your own eye?

4.  Or how will you say to your brother, Let me remove the speck from your eye; and, behold, a plank is in your own eye?

5.  You hypocrite! First cast out the plank from your own eye; and then shall you see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
...

12.  Therefore all things, whatever you would have men do to you, do even so to them...


21.  Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he who does the will of my Father Who is in heaven.

22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, haven't we prophesied in your name? and in your name we have cast out devils? and in your name done many wonderful works?

23.  And then will I testify to them, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work sin.


     I'm not ashamed to confess that these verses used to strike me as very sobering, but now I realize by the example set for me on these boards, that they must have applied to some other era, and not to ours or to me.  It seems that nowadays it's OK to be offended by whatever is said against me, to take it all personally and be concerned for my own reputation and not care how it affects the Lord or the gospel testimony.  I really appreciate having that matter cleared up for me-- I can hardly wait until somebody says something snippity to me now!  Boy, I'm gonna really lambast 'em!!!


     ...or could somebody other than me be wrong?  Could those passages really mean what they say?


HMMMMMMmmmmmmmmmmmm...

[M2]

Verne,

Your comments and jabs at Sondra (and others) were on this board and we all got to read it because you posted it for us to see.  So now you say, "Dave is right in that a BB is not the best place for the resolution of personal differences."  You post public jabs but will not publicly apologize.  I do not believe that that is your issue ie. to reconcile on board or not.

This statement is an exaggeration (akin to a lie), "I am a little ashamed that no one came to your defense and all seem to be bending over backwards to placate the one hurling such ludicrous allegations. According to Brent, we are now not supposed to defend ourselves from this kind of thing."

Someone did speak up on Joe's matter.  On the other hand when someone then speaks up on the matter re. abusive language, you then refer to them as self-appointed facilitators and "engaging in self-righeous pontificating" etc. etc. etc.

BTW this is no longer about facilitating reconciliation.  It is about you and your unwillingness to be reconciled.  It is up to you to be reconciled or not, no one can force you to, but please do not subject us to jabs at Sondra.  If you disagree with her it is possilbe to explain why you do without character assassination.

I quote Brent here, "Verne, you have so much to offer.  Your contribution is so welcome here, why do you want to be so adamant about this?  You said those things. You apologized.  Now, it appears as if you still have a huge axe to grind, and that seem to be implying that you really were justified in saying those things afterall."

Marcia

[Oscar]

Verne,

I agree with much of what Brent and Marcia have said.  You went way over the top in your statements about Sondra J.  Now you have a decision to make.  Are you going to start quarreling with your friends?

There are more profitable things to discuss, are there not?



Sondra,

I am quite aware of the things Verne said to you.  I really don't need any more reminders. 

My feelings about Verne's comments are expressed above.

Your complaint about having been given a "consequence" is a little puzzling to me.  A thread devoted to your complaints as long as you don't call folks names hardly constitutes what I'd call a consequence.


Verne and Sondra,

It seems to me that it would be a good idea to give this whole issue a rest.  If you must discuss it, why not do it privately?

Thomas Maddux

[sfortescue]

Proverbs

10:17 He is in the way of life that keepeth instruction: but he that refuseth reproof erreth.
10:18 He that hideth hatred with lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, is a fool.
11: 2 When pride cometh, then cometh shame: but with the lowly is wisdom.
11: 9 An hypocrite with his mouth destroyeth his neighbour: but through knowledge shall the just be delivered.
11:12 He that is void of wisdom despiseth his neighbour: but a man of understanding holdeth his peace.
12: 1 Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof is brutish.
12:15 The way of a fool is right in his own eyes: but he that hearkeneth unto counsel is wise.
13:18 Poverty and shame shall be to him that refuseth instruction: but he that regardeth reproof shall be honoured.
13:20 He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a companion of fools shall be destroyed.
14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
14:16 A wise man feareth, and departeth from evil: but the fool rageth, and is confident.
14:17 He that is soon angry dealeth foolishly: and a man of wicked devices is hated.
14:29 He that is slow to wrath is of great understanding: but he that is hasty of spirit exalteth folly.
16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
16:28 A froward man soweth strife: and a whisperer separateth chief friends.
16:32 He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; and he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city.
22:24 Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go:
22:25 Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul.
25:28 He that hath no rule over his own spirit is like a city that is broken down, and without walls.
26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
26:22 The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.
29:20 Seest thou a man that is hasty in his words? there is more hope of a fool than of him.
29:23 A man's pride shall bring him low: but honour shall uphold the humble in spirit.
30:32 If thou hast done foolishly in lifting up thyself, or if thou hast thought evil, lay thine hand upon thy mouth.

[editor]

According to Brent, we are now not supposed to defend ourselves from this kind of thing. That is drivel right out of assembly- land if you ask me. Well, I have had it up to here with this sanctimonious posturing. I started talking again because people who should have spoken up seem to have been struck dumb while havoc was being wreaked. Take care my friend.

Hi Verne,

I don't recall ever saying anything like what you posted above.  When did I say that?

And another tihing, people are speaking up.  Quite a bit actually. I think what you mean is that there werent' enough people saying the things you thought should be said.  That is certainly your perogative.  However, people are hardly keeping silent on this topic.  You just don't want to listen.

One more thing: I'm trying to see how this is Assembly drivel.  In the Assembly, I vividly remember people being told what to say, or to keep quiet.  The exact opposite is going on here.  Can you please enlighten me?

Brent.  ( I really am your friend, whether you agree with me or not.)

[M2]

Verses on actions by friends from Proverbs:

17:17 A friend loves at all times, And a brother is born for adversity.
27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend, But deceitful are the kisses of an enemy.
27:9 Oil and perfume make the heart glad, So a man's counsel is sweet to his friend.

We could become your yes-persons, but then we would not truly be your friends.

As Brent has said, I will restate that I speak as a friend as well.

God bless,
Marcia

[Joe Sperling]

Brent---

In your post just below above the highlighted area it says "Quote from Joe Sperling"--but
this is not my quote---just thought I'd make that clear. But I do feel I should have just kept
my mouth shut. I apologize for adding any more fuel to the fire in regards to this thread. I
think Tom is absolutely right, in that this issue should be resolved privately, and let the Lord
deal with the hearts that are involved. Thank you Al for the reminders from Matthew--I myself
know I need to take them more to heart. I have been posting on the board for quite a while now
and I know that at the beginning I got in some heated arguments with Al, Luke Robinson, Matt
Peeling and Sondra and others at times. I apologize for anything I said(I said so much it's hard to be
specific) which was hurtful or "attacking" towards others. I admit I had great animosity towards
the other board, lableling it "Soaring with the egos" or "Snoring with the Beagles".

I decided it was best to stay away--and it was a good decision. I was a little hurt by the comment
on my "quip" about football, but I don't want to harbor ill will or ill feelings towards anyone. God
bless Sondra, God bless Matt, God bless Verne, and everyone else on this BB and SWTE
too. After all, were all brothers and sisters in Christ, and "dear children" of the Lord. We all have a habit of thinking we know one another, when in reality we really don't--only the Lord knows what is really
in each of our hearts. I want to thank everyone for all of the discussions, opinions, arguments,
ideas, and prayers that have helped me out in the last couple of years. I mean that sincerely.

Thanks,Joe

P.S.    How 'bout those bobcats?

[editor]

Brent---

In your post just below above the highlighted area it says "Quote from Joe Sperling"--but
this is not my quote---just thought I'd make that clear. But I do feel I should have just kept
my mouth shut. I apologize for adding any more fuel to the fire in regards to this thread. I
think Tom is absolutely right, in that this issue should be resolved privately, and let the Lord
deal with the hearts that are involved. Thank you Al for the reminders from Matthew--I myself
know I need to take them more to heart. I have been posting on the board for quite a while now
and I know that at the beginning I got in some heated arguments with Al, Luke Robinson, Matt
Peeling and Sondra and others at times. I apologize for anything I said(I said so much it's hard to be
specific) which was hurtful or "attacking" towards others. I admit I had great animosity towards
the other board, lableling it "Soaring with the egos" or "Snoring with the Beagles".

I decided it was best to stay away--and it was a good decision. I was a little hurt by the comment
on my "quip" about football, but I don't want to harbor ill will or ill feelings towards anyone. God
bless Sondra, God bless Matt, God bless Verne, and everyone else on this BB and the other one
too. After all, were all brothers and sisters in Christ, and "dear children" of the Lord. We all have a habit of thinking we know one another, when in reality we really don't--only the Lord knows what is really
in each of our hearts. I want to thank everyone for all of the discussions, opinions, arguments, and
ideas that have helped me out in the last couple of years. I mean that sincerely.

Thanks,Joe

P.S.    How 'bout those bobcats?

Hi Joe,

I was quoting Verne, but somehow all the quote jargon came up with your name.

Brent

[Joe Sperling]

Brent---

Thanks---I figured something like that happened. Have you been sailing lately?
I haven't heard you talk about those adventures for quite a while. But maybe
that's best for another thread. I've also got a few really good chiropractor jokes
I'd like to run past you. 

God bless, Joe

[editor]

Brent---

Thanks---I figured something like that happened. Have you been sailing lately?
I haven't heard you talk about those adventures for quite a while. But maybe
that's best for another thread. I've also got a few really good chiropractor jokes
I'd like to run past you. 

God bless, Joe

Joe,

I have actually just sold the boat.  It was heartwrenching. However, my kids are so involved in stuff that requires travel that it makes no sense right now for me to own and maintain a sailboat.

My neighboor, also my  best friend has a boat that I can sail any time I wish, so I do that when I'm not playing poker of travelling to a match with the kids.

My main hobby right now is poker.  I'm playing daily on-line and face to face about 1-2 times per week.  My game is improving, but I have hit the most mathmatically improbable state of "bad luck"----no such thing really---lately that my mind is spinning.

It's all part of the game, which is amazingly satisfying, not to mention profitable at times.  Look for me on TV withing the next 2=3 years.  Maybe next month I'll have my first HUGE win.  Biggest so far is 3600 for a 12 dollar entry.  Of course, I lose the entry more often than not.....

Around here it's mainly wrestling, gymnastics and Bball.  It looks like the gymnast is going to switch to pole-vaulting soon.  We have an Olympic silver medalist who is coaching the girls, and he takes gymnasts.  Most of them win CIF.  We'll see how it goes.