The Bible Code

[vernecarty]

Jewish scribes have long been aware that there is an incredible mathematical symmetry to the Hebrew scriptures that attest to their divine orgin. It is something that the casual reader of the Scriptures will miss completely but is nonetheless there for those who have eyes to see. I remember how astonished I was when it was first pointed out to me that Psalm 119, one of my favorite passages in the Bible, consistently followed the symmetric pattern of each verse of the 22 octets beginning with the subsequent letter of the Hebrew alphabet. There are other interesting patterns.
If you take the first Hebrew letter in Genesis, skip 49 and then take the next letter, then repeat the skip sequence, then every four letters spells Torh (the Hebrew word pronounced 'Torah', meaning 'The Law of God').
This holds all the way through the first two books of the Bible, Genesis and Exodus. When you get to the middle book of the five, Leviticus, it stops. However, when you do the same skip sequence for Deuteronomy and the Book of Numbers, it spells Hrot, which is Torh backwards.
In the book, Leviticus, use the skip sequence again this time skipping every seven letters, and it spells YHWH (pronounced YAWEH). Which is the Hebrew name for God!
So we have every 49 letters in Genesis and Exodus spelling 'The Law of God' and pointing to Leviticus, and every 49 letters of Deuteronomy and Numbers spelling 'The Law of God' backwards and pointing to Leviticus. Every seven letters in this book spells YAWH; the name of God himself.
Michael Drosnin who wrote the book “The Bible Code” has made some very interesting findiings. So much for “dynamic equivalency” huh?
Has anyone read it?
Verne

[Oscar]

Verne,

One question.  Did you actually count those letters yourself to ascertain the validity of the claim?

Here are a couple of articles that take another viewpoint of the Bible Code issue.

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/critbiblecode.shtml

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/crackingcodes.shtml

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

[vernecarty]

Verne,

One question.  Did you actually count those letters yourself to ascertain the validity of the claim?

Here are a couple of articles that take another viewpoint of the Bible Code issue.

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/critbiblecode.shtml

http://www.reasons.org/resources/apologetics/crackingcodes.shtml

Blessings,

Thomas Maddux

Not sucessfully Tom. Doing this manually even for a few chapters is extremely hard on the eyes.  I have a Parson's technology Hebrew Bible on CD rom. I am trying to get information on two things. The particular Hebrew translation that Drosnin used, and the algorithm he used to search for patterns.
The program is extremely hard to get hold of. I am not even certain that I have sufficient computing power to put it to any good use. The man runs super CPUs in parallel processing. I know that he has his detractors but from what I have seen of the statistical analysis, there appears to be something more than serendipity...
You of course know of his documented letter to prime minister Rabin.
Some of the very same remarkably symmetry, which is easier to follow occurs in the NT.
For example, several people would immediately give me the answer if I asked how many times the word Jerusalem. occurs in the NT in the vast manority of extant NT MSS.
Verne
p.s I will let you know as soon as I get done with Genesis...so far so good...

[Mark Kisla]

Years ago, Last Days Ministries had an interesting publication about this that went into great detail.

[vernecarty]

Years ago, Last Days Ministries had an interesting publication about this that went into great detail.

I have not seen it. The reviews done by some of the cryptographers are what I really find intriguing.
They apparently took a dare and ran the algorithm on War and Peace - Nada...
Verne

[outdeep]

I have not seen it. The reviews done by some of the cryptographers are what I really find intriguing.
They apparently took a dare and ran the algorithm on War and Peace - Nada...
Verne

I read the Last days tract a while ago, but I can't remember all that it said.  It did go into interesting numerical symmetry in the Bible and seemed plausable to me.

My boss lent me the Bible Code.  I read the dust jacket and kept it for a few months before returning it.  The book went into things like how he would see a famous person's name in one place and a date somehow intersecting it and that person ended up being assinated on that very day.  I don't know how he came up with these things as I never read the book so don't take this as a fair evaluation.  I never could stir myself up to to read it because it reminded me of Salam Kirban's Bible prophecy books that I used to read in the 1970's.

Let me know if you actually read the book.  It may be better than my initial impressions.  Hey, the godly New York Times loved it.

[vernecarty]

I read the Last days tract a while ago, but I can't remember all that it said.  It did go into interesting numerical symmetry in the Bible and seemed plausable to me.

My boss lent me the Bible Code.  I read the dust jacket and kept it for a few months before returning it.  The book went into things like how he would see a famous person's name in one place and a date somehow intersecting it and that person ended up being assinated on that very day.  I don't know how he came up with these things as I never read the book so don't take this as a fair evaluation.  I never could stir myself up to to read it because it reminded me of Salam Kirban's Bible prophecy books that I used to read in the 1970's.

Let me know if you actually read the book.  It may be better than my initial impressions.  Hey, the godly New York Times loved it.

I have talked to a few folk who had opinions but had not read the book. I asked Chuck Vanasse a few months ago if he knew how I could get a copy of the algorithm but he had no idea.
The book has a number of remarkable items easily verifiable by anyone with half an inclination, including a fairly thorough over-haul by some of the Pentagon's top cryptographers...
Verne
p.s I had my own copy on the shelf for about a year before I actually opened it.

[sfortescue]

There is an interesting stock-market scam that some people have used which involves sending out 1024 different letters predicting what 10 different stock prices would do.  The reason being that there are 1024 different choices of up versus down among the 10 stocks.  The letters would be sent to many people, but each person would receive only one of them.  Later, after learning what the stocks actually did, those people that received the letters which predicted all 10 correctly would be sent another letter advertising the 100% success rate of predicting the 10 stocks.

As for this Bible code idea, it could be that the author produced a very large number of algorithms and tried them all, and the algorithm that produced the largest number of surprising finds was the one he kept, and discarded the rest.  Noone would ever know how many algorithms were tried and discarded.  This is the power of high speed computers: they can synthesize improbable combinations of things by means of immense searches.

[al Hartman]

Topics such as this are intriguing and attractive.  They can also be dangerous.  It is easily understandable how one who loves his Lord would want to learn the "deeper things" of his God and his faith, and the desire to do so must initially be a good thing.  We must remember that our God's greatest enemy often creates his best deceptions by beginning with the truth.

My purpose in these comments is not to discourage anyone's interest in Bible numerology or "codes," but merely to urge one and all to keep everything in perspective.

The natural man loves to possess knowledge that supercedes that of his neighbors, and to revel in the reputation that it can bring.  For the Christian, the child, heir and true worshipper of God through Christ, all knowledge should lead to a greater appreciation, thanksgiving and worship toward our Father in heaven, our Redeemer, and the Holy Spirit, and a deeper humility before both God and men.  If this is the fruit of our meditations, let us study on.  But if it turns to pride, let us beware.  In either case, let us pray for guidance and protection...

In Christ,
al

[vernecarty]

My aim in starting this thread was not so much to solicit philosophical pronouncements about the validity or accuracy of the Bible code, but rather to promote discusssion among those of us who might be interetesd in Scriptural numerology. It goes without saying that to make any meaningful comments on the subject you should have at least read the book in question. Let's keep it light and airy shall we? I have found that many Christians are not well informed on the subject, nor for that matter even interested so please feel no obligation to offer your two cents if you don't have any
Verne

[Oscar]

Verne,

In approaching the issue of "Biblical numerology", I would ask a couple of questions.  The first would be, "Is there such a thing as Biblical numerology?"  Then, "If there is, what does it actually mean?"

 Seems to me that pointing out that the first letter of a series of verses spells YHWH or some other word simply means that the first letter of a series of verses spells a word.

Thomas Maddux

[sfortescue]

Back in June, 2003 someone asked me about numbers in scripture, and my reply was in these pm's:


I don't know about those things.  Sometimes people see patterns that are merely coincidences.  Here is a link to a classic book on the subject:

http://philologos.org/__eb-nis/

I think that at least a few of the things Bullinger says may have some validity, but I think he is seeing more things than are really there. 

I was just looking at what Bullinger had to say about 153.  He seems to have missed the fact that it is equal to the sum of the cubes of its digits. The only other numbers with that property are 0, 1, 370, 371, and 407.

[vernecarty]

Verne,

In approaching the issue of "Biblical numerology", I would ask a couple of questions.  The first would be, "Is there such a thing as Biblical numerology?"  Then, "If there is, what does it actually mean?"

 Seems to me that pointing out that the first letter of a series of verses spells YHWH or some other word simply means that the first letter of a series of verses spells a word.

Thomas Maddux

Excellent question my good man!   
I think we should consider it as part of a larger question of symbology in the Scripture.
For example, do you think it makes any difference to us that at times something such as the position of someone ( such as an agngel standing on the right side of the altar) is given in great detail?
Or again that someone lays his right hand on someone's head?
Put another way, is there a way in which Scripture uses numbers to convey spiritual meaning?
Here is a quick test and anyone may answer, but you must give your reasons.
What is the significance of the number three in Scripture?
What about the number eight?
What about the number twelve?
What about the number seven?
What about the number nine?

Can you give examples of passages in which these numbers are used to support your thinking?

Here is another good one: How would you use the number 400 to give someone a bird's eye view of the history of the nation of Isarael? (I know that one is a puff ball but you get my drift. )

I guess I would have to say that looking at the contextual uses of specific numbers in Scripture, I would say that Biblical numerlogy is simply a recognition of such a consistent use.
Verne

p.s have you read Drosnin's book?

[vernecarty]

As for this Bible code idea, it could be that the author produced a very large number of algorithms and tried them all, and the algorithm that produced the largest number of surprising finds was the one he kept, and discarded the rest.  Noone would ever know how many algorithms were tried and discarded.  This is the power of high speed computers: they can synthesize improbable combinations of things by means of immense searches.

How about this:

Suppose you are asked to construct a genealogy of real people, but there are certain constraints. The number of words in this genealogy must:


·   Be evenly divisible by seven (with no remainders)
·   The number of letters must be divisible by seven
·   The number of vowels and consonants must be divisible by seven
·   The number of words that begin with a vowel must be divisible by seven
·   The number of words that begin with a consonant must be divisible by seven
·   The number of words that occur more than once, must be divisible by seven
·   The number of words that occur in more than one form must be divisible by seven
·   The number of words that occur only in one form must be divisible by seven
·   The number of names in the genealogy must be divisible by seven
·   The number of male names must be divisible by seven
·   And the number of generations in the genealogy must be divisible by seven

How many genealogies and how many algorithms do you think you would have to mine to satisfy the above constraints?

Verne

[vernecarty]

Does anyone know where the afore-mentioned genealogy is listed?
Verne